Denying challenges with a unit of characters

[Nomadic Thunder]

Possible Stupid Question alert!

 

If a unit consisting of only characters is challenged by an oponent and you didn't wish to accept the challenge would that mean none of the members of the unit would be able to attack due to the rules of you cannot attack if you deny a challenge?

 

I'm thinking of the new dark angels firewing unit. being only 3 models with ap3 weapons (with rending if they want to melt themselves) having a 3rd of their attacks bounce of artificer armour in a challenge would hamper their effectiveness somewhat.

 

[Indefragable]

From p141 of the Enhanced eBook version of BRB:

 

____________________________

Refusing a Challenge

Alternatively, you can refuse the challenge. If you refuse, your opponent gets to nominate one of your characters from those who could have accepted. The chosen model cannot attack in close combat at all this turn. Furthermore, their Leadership cannot be used the rest of the unit for the remainder of the phase. Once a challenge has been refused, the model that issued it fights normally. 

____________________________

 

Emphasis added by me above. 

 

Based on the second sentence, I guess that means that if none of your Firewing guys accept a challenge, then your opponent gets to choose one of them not to fight. This would work similarly to Chosen units like Command Squads and stuff, right?

 

In a basic form, your Tac blob vs his Tac blob: your Sgt issues a challenge, his Sgt refuses (coward!). You then get to choose a character of his not to fight, in which case, defaults to his Sgt. Simple.

 

Now his entire squad is Characters. You issue a challenge with your Sgt and he refuses to accept with any of them (cowards, all!). You would then get to choose one of them not to fight. 

 

That's how I am reading it, but others please chime in. 

Edited September 16, 2020 by Indefragable

[Nomadic Thunder]

Got it!

Thanks a lot for the clear breakdown, I needed that!

It would seem it’s better to stand up and be counted then. I suppose you don’t become a member of an assassination squad/command retinue by shying away from a challenge.

 

I appreciate the response!

[Indefragable]

Got it!

Thanks a lot for the clear breakdown, I needed that!

It would seem it’s better to stand up and be counted then. I suppose you don’t become a member of an assassination squad/command retinue by shying away from a challenge.

 

I appreciate the response!

 

It's a creatively designed rule, the more you think about it. If there were no penalty for refusing challenges, than any character good at challenges would be pointless b/c the most efficient means of dealing with challenges would be to simply refuse and thus render your opponent's scary duelist obsolete. The unfortunate side effect is that you get the rise of the "challenge eater" sacrificial character (usually a Sgt type) who deliberately takes a challenge he probably can't win to allow the scarier guy to do more work on the larger enemy unit. Alas, hopefully the right balance is cracked down the line. 

[MegaVolt87]

I always thought it made more sense for only independent characters to be apart of a challenge. Sargeant ducking one to wail on base troops makes more sense. Only independent chars should duel IMO.

[Nomadic Thunder]

I think megavolt is into something there.

It’s actually quite logical, why would your heavy bolter wielding support sergeant lay down his big gun for some Queensbury rules behind a sangar?

 

Maybe independent characters (if they were present) had to be the ones who issued and accepted challenges and characters don’t get a look in but if there’s only a character and no independent then they can step up?

[Gorgoff]

I think megavolt is into something there.

It’s actually quite logical, why would your heavy bolter wielding support sergeant lay down his big gun for some Queensbury rules behind a sangar?

 

Maybe independent characters (if they were present) had to be the ones who issued and accepted challenges and characters don’t get a look in but if there’s only a character and no independent then they can step up?

I'd be very fond of this.

[MegaVolt87]

I think megavolt is into something there.

It’s actually quite logical, why would your heavy bolter wielding support sergeant lay down his big gun for some Queensbury rules behind a sangar?

Maybe independent characters (if they were present) had to be the ones who issued and accepted challenges and characters don’t get a look in but if there’s only a character and no independent then they can step up?

"Oh? We are dueling? Ok Ima fire my heavy bolter at initative to you're powerfist."

"I meant dance fight, not duel haha jk bro."*nervous sweating*

[Indefragable]

I get that....but the corollary is Khârn leaping over the sandbar and roaring a challenge. Since melee at that point is inescapable, does the Sgt bravely attempt to protect his squad by tangling up Khârn so the rest of his guys can escape or fight the others or are at least inspired by his example? Or does he ignore the challenge, only to be neutralized by having to dodge Khârn’s attention anyway but without the benefit of a stand up fight?

[Nomadic Thunder]

Indeed. But why would a character step up in place of an independent character, a natural leader and someone of noted prowess within the legion.

Hence my suggestion of only IC can accept if both IC and character is present but a character can accept them if they were the only swinging johnson present.

 

Some support officers like medics and such or certain independents could get a 'pragmatic' rule so a regular sgt. can step up for them whilst they get on and tend to wounded/issue orders for firesupport/rally the boys etc.

[Nomadic Thunder]

 

I think megavolt is into something there.

It’s actually quite logical, why would your heavy bolter wielding support sergeant lay down his big gun for some Queensbury rules behind a sangar?

Maybe independent characters (if they were present) had to be the ones who issued and accepted challenges and characters don’t get a look in but if there’s only a character and no independent then they can step up?

"Oh? We are dueling? Ok Ima fire my heavy bolter at initative to you're powerfist."

"I meant dance fight, not duel haha jk bro."*nervous sweating*

 

"Ah, well hello Legion Master, you've thrown down your gauntlet I see and that is a LOVELY sword you have there. Well in that case, I'll see your challenge and I shall raise you a volley of plasma to the chest!"

[Indefragable]

 

 

I think megavolt is into something there.

It’s actually quite logical, why would your heavy bolter wielding support sergeant lay down his big gun for some Queensbury rules behind a sangar?

Maybe independent characters (if they were present) had to be the ones who issued and accepted challenges and characters don’t get a look in but if there’s only a character and no independent then they can step up?

"Oh? We are dueling? Ok Ima fire my heavy bolter at initative to you're powerfist."

"I meant dance fight, not duel haha jk bro."*nervous sweating*

 

"Ah, well hello Legion Master, you've thrown down your gauntlet I see and that is a LOVELY sword you have there. Well in that case, I'll see your challenge and I shall raise you a volley of plasma to the chest!"

 

https://youtu.be/jlZcmrAJG3g