The Unusual Suspects

[TheNewman]

As much as I like the WS toolkit for it's depth, I do frequently feel a bit type-cast putting a list together. Assault weapons, melee infantry, bikes, vehicles that are either fast or at least mostly armed to not lose firepower if I use Hunters' Fusilade; The Usual Suspects, if you follow me.

 

I though it might be interesting to talk about success you've had with units that don't fit the mold for WS so well, times when something you threw in for a lark or just because you like the model performed surprisingly well on the table.

 

The one that springs most readily to my mind is Stalker Intercessors. They're pretty good at just sitting on an objective and still contributing, and in a smaller army it's easy to overlook the need to fill that roll.

 

How about the rest of you?

[SanguinaryGuardsman]

I've  been using tartaros terminators with white scars and they are really effective.  The charges are reliable with a chaplain and they do a ton of dmg to chaff with shooting and even more to vehicles in close combat. 

 

I would hold off on stalker intercessors with the new heavy intercessors on the way.  Those look to be better.    

[TheNewman]

I'm curious why you consider the Tartaros The Unusual Suspects, I'd argue they don't belong in there for WS because our kit supports Terminators well. ...thinking on it I'm not sure any loyalist chapter does it better.

 

Yeah; Heavy Intercessors are going to do it better, but they're also PL 7 I think? That's a lot of points for a back-field objective holder and Tac Intercessors are in the sweet spot of durable enough to not die if you look at them funny but also not threatening or expensive enough to justify real attention. They're kind of the opposite of a Distraction Carnifex, I'm not sure Heavy Intercessors are going to fall into that category.

 

Good to have responses at all though, the WS board doesn't seem to have a lot of traffic. [Thumbs up]

[SanguinaryGuardsman]

I'm curious why you consider the Tartaros The Unusual Suspects, I'd argue they don't belong in there for WS because our kit supports Terminators well. ...thinking on it I'm not sure any loyalist chapter does it better.

 

Yeah; Heavy Intercessors are going to do it better, but they're also PL 7 I think? That's a lot of points for a back-field objective holder and Tac Intercessors are in the sweet spot of durable enough to not die if you look at them funny but also not threatening or expensive enough to justify real attention. They're kind of the opposite of a Distraction Carnifex, I'm not sure Heavy Intercessors are going to fall into that category.

 

Good to have responses at all though, the WS board doesn't seem to have a lot of traffic. [Thumbs up]

They arent bikes, they can't go into impulsors or rhinos.  Footslogging infantry doesnt seem in keeping with WS.  

[TheNewman]

 

 

I'm curious why you consider the Tartaros The Unusual Suspects, I'd argue they don't belong in there for WS because our kit supports Terminators well. ...thinking on it I'm not sure any loyalist chapter does it better.

They arent bikes, they can't go into impulsors or rhinos. Footslogging infantry doesnt seem in keeping with WS.

That's a fair point.

 

WS can add 3" to a charge out of Deep Strike (4" for a successor chapter) and that's pretty significant for a unit like Termies with native DS and solid melee damage output, but once they've hit the first target getting to a second one can be a problem.

Edited September 24, 2020 by TheNewman

[Dumah]

 

 

I'm curious why you consider the Tartaros The Unusual Suspects, I'd argue they don't belong in there for WS because our kit supports Terminators well. ...thinking on it I'm not sure any loyalist chapter does it better.

 

Yeah; Heavy Intercessors are going to do it better, but they're also PL 7 I think? That's a lot of points for a back-field objective holder and Tac Intercessors are in the sweet spot of durable enough to not die if you look at them funny but also not threatening or expensive enough to justify real attention. They're kind of the opposite of a Distraction Carnifex, I'm not sure Heavy Intercessors are going to fall into that category.

 

Good to have responses at all though, the WS board doesn't seem to have a lot of traffic. [Thumbs up]

They arent bikes, they can't go into impulsors or rhinos. Footslogging infantry doesnt seem in keeping with WS.

I would actually consider them especially viable due to the ability to advance and charge.

[TheNewman]

"Stay on target. Stay on target."

"Loosen up!"

*boom*

 

I pretty regularly took a squad of Termies and a Terminator Libby in 8th ed as well, they didn't always kill what I wanted them to but they frequently forced my opponent to make hard choices about dealing with them or playing the mission.

 

I haven't played Scars in 9th yet, but they're harder to work into a 1000 point list now. (Been playing Mono-Slannesh and Emperor's children so my regular opponents [censored] less about loyalist marines being broken.)

[L30n1d4s]

WS Devastator Centurions might actually be a sleeper unit.

 

For 1 CP you can use Encirclement on them (cheaper CP wise than if you used Strategic Reserves), or you can put them in a LR and use Lightning Disembarkation to range almost anything in the game. Also, if they get charged you can use the Strat to fall back and shoot, plus you can use the WS relic to let them Overwatch on a 5+... with 20 Grav Cannon shots and 60 Bolter shots for a squad of 5, that is nothing to laugh at. Finally, you can use a Strat to turn their weapons into Assault weapons, advance and still fire, and then use another Strat to make them -1 to hit for Adavancing.

[Prot]

I've  been using tartaros terminators with white scars and they are really effective.  The charges are reliable with a chaplain and they do a ton of dmg to chaff with shooting and even more to vehicles in close combat. 

 

I would hold off on stalker intercessors with the new heavy intercessors on the way.  Those look to be better.    

 

Would you consider Tartaros a better choice than Cataphractii? I've used Cataphractii but truthfully I don't have any experience with Tartaros.

 

As for unorthodox units, believe it or not I think unorthodox units actually add balance to a stereotypical WS list.

 

My unit which fits that category is the TFC. Yup.... absolutely great for WS. I despise leaving anything behind with WS. I just had a game last week where I took it out for a spin again. (I had removed it for a while). 

 

The TFC either hides with obscurment in my zone, or is at least in cover to get one of the typical objective markers in my zone for the game. If someone -really- wants to come gut him out of my corner, it's usually just too annoying, and people look at the TFC as requiring too many resources to remove when in reality they are facing a horde of white rushing at them.

 

In the meantime the TFC is good for getting rid of 'hiding characters' or even other units holding a quarter, hoping never to get shot. Stuff like that. The TFC actually does a few different jobs at the same time and it's more beneficial to an aggressive WS build than I think most people believe.

[SanguinaryGuardsman]

 

I've  been using tartaros terminators with white scars and they are really effective.  The charges are reliable with a chaplain and they do a ton of dmg to chaff with shooting and even more to vehicles in close combat. 

 

I would hold off on stalker intercessors with the new heavy intercessors on the way.  Those look to be better.    

 

Would you consider Tartaros a better choice than Cataphractii? I've used Cataphractii but truthfully I don't have any experience with Tartaros.

 

As for unorthodox units, believe it or not I think unorthodox units actually add balance to a stereotypical WS list.

 

My unit which fits that category is the TFC. Yup.... absolutely great for WS. I despise leaving anything behind with WS. I just had a game last week where I took it out for a spin again. (I had removed it for a while). 

 

The TFC either hides with obscurment in my zone, or is at least in cover to get one of the typical objective markers in my zone for the game. If someone -really- wants to come gut him out of my corner, it's usually just too annoying, and people look at the TFC as requiring too many resources to remove when in reality they are facing a horde of white rushing at them.

 

In the meantime the TFC is good for getting rid of 'hiding characters' or even other units holding a quarter, hoping never to get shot. Stuff like that. The TFC actually does a few different jobs at the same time and it's more beneficial to an aggressive WS build than I think most people believe.

 

I picked tartaros for 2 reasons.  Firstly they aren't slow.  6" move and full advance.  Secondly, their wargear options were what i wanted.  All stormbolters+all chainfits.  I wanted a unit that could drop down on turn 2 and rinse a knight reliably.  Having ap -4 on turn 2 was important... I dont like 6+ saves when every wound inflicted counts.  Even 10 terminators can wiff vs a knight so reducing swings was important to me.   I did not want cataphracti because they are slow and cost more with the same wargear.  I didnt think the 4++ was worth paying points for since 5 terminators would evaporate to real firepower regardless.   

 

I did not anticipate terminators going to 3w so that changes things quite a lot.  Terminators with 3w can reasonably be expected to weather some shooting so having a 4++ has merit but I think it will be assault terminators to benefit the most from this not cataphracti. 

[Prot]

That’s some sound reasoning. I confess in part I ask because I have a squad of Tartaros I haven’t done anything with. The movement part is big. Cataphractii are certainly god awful slow. What weapon load out do you recommend for the sarge? Plasma or volkite?

[SanguinaryGuardsman]

That’s some sound reasoning. I confess in part I ask because I have a squad of Tartaros I haven’t done anything with. The movement part is big. Cataphractii are certainly god awful slow. What weapon load out do you recommend for the sarge? Plasma or volkite?

I dont see either as worth even 1 point tbh.  Stormbolter+fist or chainfist.  Since the powerfist/chainfist profiles changed im not yet sure which I prefer.  White Scars make weapon choices a bit difference since we get +1 dmg on turn 3.  Maybe some math nerd could figure it out for us so we dont have to play test it at all.  ><