New article reveals our chapter tactic

[Rune Priest Jbickb]

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2020/09/28/a-new-chapter-of-codex-space-marines/

 

Our chapter tactic is still +1 to hit on charge, and now all units with chapter tactic can heroically intervene as though they were characters.

 

If I recall correctly this was mentioned in one of the live streams, but today's article spells it out further.

[Karhedron]

The new detachment structure means we will probably be running slightly fewer characters in 9th while durable Troops/Elites squads are key to contesting the midfield. Overall I think this will be a net gain for us although it will rein in some of the more exciting heroics our Characters were previously capable of.

[Rune Priest Jbickb]

I do miss the days when we could feild double the HQs just cuz spacecwolves. But alas time marches on lol.

 

Honestly I think this will be pretty good. Most missions seem to favor fighting for the rough middle of the board so scooping nearby units into the fight via HI might be good. Will have to see it in the wild to be certain though.

 

Edit cuz big fingers hate touch screens lol

Edited September 28, 2020 by Rune Priest Jbickb

[Dark Shepherd]

I really really hope we keep the strat that lets a unit HI 6 inches, even if its just for characters

 

And our doctrine bonus too

Edited September 28, 2020 by Dark Shepherd

[Bulwyf]

The HI for all units is frankly worthless. Anyone with a brain is going to just charge enough of your units to keep you from HI and even if they don't anything that HI can be targeted by a charging unit. So there's no real benefit to it.

[PeteySödes]

The HI for all units is frankly worthless. Anyone with a brain is going to just charge enough of your units to keep you from HI and even if they don't anything that HI can be targeted by a charging unit. So there's no real benefit to it.

 

I wouldn't say worthless. Its situational obviously but against lone harassment units coupled with the fight phase activation changes it could be quite punishing. It may take some getting used to but but it's certainly is something that will disrupt opponents tactics and leave room for mistakes.

[Dark Shepherd]

Except that its a lot harder to kill several units, not every charging unit will be 10 bezerkers or 30 boyz

 

Theres also death frenzies and Only In Death strats

 

Plus armour of russ and Judicars

[Jorin Helm-splitter]

The HI for all units is frankly worthless. Anyone with a brain is going to just charge enough of your units to keep you from HI and even if they don't anything that HI can be targeted by a charging unit. So there's no real benefit to it.

I wouldn't go that far I've had opponents steal objectives by moving an obsec unit just close enough to take it, and this would prevent that (or at least let my wolves hit them before my command phase). Hopefully we have some sort of stratagem that extends the range.

[The Saint Ragnar]

Yeah I see this as a good book to stop people from just taking an objective with a small unit and tagging it. If we use our movement right to get objectives they will have to charge us or be ready to take the HI. And since it is their turn we would fight first with a unit.

 

It's not OP but it is subtle and can catch people off guard. It will also force the issue on the midfield objectives where we have already been good at getting to and bullying people on.

 

We will have to wait and see how things shake out with the new Codex and supplement but I'm feeling happy enough with this change right now.

 

Plus, anyone playing smart to avoid HI is getting pushed back without us having to do anything except be there which can be huge. It won't kill them but it will make them have to stay further back and possibly make mistakes.

[Iain_Stormeyes]

The HI for all units is frankly worthless. Anyone with a brain is going to just charge enough of your units to keep you from HI and even if they don't anything that HI can be targeted by a charging unit. So there's no real benefit to it.

 

Agreed.  Its a straight downgrade and will almosts never come up, as opposed to all other marine traits.

[Dark Shepherd]

Id disagree that it will never come up, means opponents have to declare charges on all units that could intervene not just characters, or make charge moves to avoid this which could potentially stymie their own charges

[Bulwyf]

 

The HI for all units is frankly worthless. Anyone with a brain is going to just charge enough of your units to keep you from HI and even if they don't anything that HI can be targeted by a charging unit. So there's no real benefit to it.

 

Agreed.  Its a straight downgrade and will almosts never come up, as opposed to all other marine traits.

 

 

Exactly. This is so situational to be actually useful it is just laughable as a Chapter trait. I would much rather have exploding 6's in melee. 

 

Actually, can't we pick and choose our traits? If other Chapters can do that why not us? We're all in the same codex now...

Edited September 28, 2020 by Bulwyf

[PeteySödes]

 

 

The HI for all units is frankly worthless. Anyone with a brain is going to just charge enough of your units to keep you from HI and even if they don't anything that HI can be targeted by a charging unit. So there's no real benefit to it.

 

Agreed.  Its a straight downgrade and will almosts never come up, as opposed to all other marine traits.

 

 

Exactly. This is so situational to be actually useful it is just laughable as a Chapter trait. I would much rather have exploding 6's in melee. 

 

Actually, can't we pick and choose our traits? If other Chapters can do that why not us? We're all in the same codex now...

 

 

Unless i'm insanely wrong, Savage fury and Hunters unleashed are separate so we still get our "super doctrine".

[FabulousRex]

It's not all doom and gloom, you just have to think differently. It is indeed a subtle shift, but that's where the real high level power comes into play. Sure a skilled opponent can play around HI, but you've just limited their options while expanding your own for no points spent.

 

Things like Rhinos performing a HI can throw a huge monkey wrench into an opponent's plans. Dreadnoughts of all stripes are super intimidating when they can join the fun as well. Hell, just having 2 or 3 different HI options can make your opponent hesitant to charge and get cut off and surrounded. Those long base Cyber Wolves can HI and cut off support characters from joining the fight.

 

Subtlety might not be our strongest play, but we can use it better than most. In most wargames, melee positioning shenanigans are devastating when done well.

[Karack Blackstone]

SW's may get a more open ended HI Strat for their units, 1 CP for any unit able to HI to 6" say for GH's, BC's, HQ's allowed, and so on.

Even then, as noted, if anyone has played Warmachine and other mini games outside of WH40K, a great deal of area denial on the charge or going into engagement can be HUGE

 

And, unlike a Charge, isn't HI an automatic move, and not 2d6? So, you're not going 2" to 12" minus any terrain penalties or plus any bonuses, you got 3" or 6" max move, and less, if needed.

 

This is where a GH pack or BC pack moving up to 3" or encircling up to 6" as well as Charging 2d6" plus mod's is even better.

It's a double move, essentially; 2d6" base charge, enemy charges, SW's get to shift 3" to 6" depending on HI and possible CP allowance to go up to said 6" AFTER the enemy's charges!

 

I cannot emphasize enough how powerful this can be. Anyone that has fought before knows how important footwork and positioning are.

SW's can either charge, enemy charges, then react, or enemy charges, SW's charge, and then can HI and shift up to 3" more base.

 

Basically...

 

SW's: 2d6+3" base charge

All others: 2d6" charge

 

And the 3" to the SW's is reactionary enabled, too!

[Bulwyf]

 

 

 

The HI for all units is frankly worthless. Anyone with a brain is going to just charge enough of your units to keep you from HI and even if they don't anything that HI can be targeted by a charging unit. So there's no real benefit to it.

 

Agreed.  Its a straight downgrade and will almosts never come up, as opposed to all other marine traits.

 

 

Exactly. This is so situational to be actually useful it is just laughable as a Chapter trait. I would much rather have exploding 6's in melee. 

 

Actually, can't we pick and choose our traits? If other Chapters can do that why not us? We're all in the same codex now...

 

 

Unless i'm insanely wrong, Savage fury and Hunters unleashed are separate so we still get our "super doctrine".

 

 

I thought this replaced the exploding sixes? If we still have that in addition to this then my opinion is slightly mollified.

[Filius]

I'm sorry to interrupt this discussion and hope, that this is the right place to ask a question but … I don't understand what Games Workshop is doing with the Space Marines Codex and the Space Wolves Codex. The Fact, that the Space Wolves Book is now called Supplement and the Codex Space Marines contains the Space Wolves Chapter Tactics looks like we need both of those books (as soon as they are published). Is anything know about this structural change for sure right now, and I just missed it?

[Karhedron]

I thought this replaced the exploding sixes? If we still have that in addition to this then my opinion is slightly mollified.

I think we keep exploding 6s which are part of our super-Doctrine that we get for running pure Wolves. This is a change to our Chapter Tactic. Our Characters have lost the ability to HI 6" but instead all our units have gained the ability to HI as if they were characters.

 

I'm sorry to interrupt this discussion and hope, that this is the right place to ask a question but … I don't understand what Games Workshop is doing with the Space Marines Codex and the Space Wolves Codex. The Fact, that the Space Wolves Book is now called Supplement and the Codex Space Marines contains the Space Wolves Chapter Tactics looks like we need both of those books (as soon as they are published). Is anything know about this structural change for sure right now, and I just missed it?

Afraid so. We will need the regular Marine Codex for all common units and rules as well as our Chapter Tactic. Then we will need the Space Wolves supplement which will cover our unique units and rules (and possibly a list of common units that we do not have access to).

 

On the downside, this is more expensive as we will now need 2 books (possibly 3 if anything in Psychic Awakening is still valid). On the plus side, it means we will now remain on a level-playing field with codex Marines rather than the silly situations we have had over the years where Marines get upgrades or new units and we have to wait months to get the same applied to us.

Edited September 29, 2020 by Karhedron

[Rune Priest Jbickb]

 

I thought this replaced the exploding sixes? If we still have that in addition to this then my opinion is slightly mollified.

I think we keep exploding 6s which are part of our super-Doctrine that we get for running pure Wolves. This is a change to our Chapter Tactic. Our Characters have lost the ability to HI 6" but instead all our units have gained the ability to HI as if they were characters.

 

This is correct. Exploding 6s is called savage fury and is only in the assault doctrine as our "super doctrine" ability. The 3" HI replaced 6" HI on charaters form our previous chapter tactic. Unless the new codex changes super doctrines the exploding 6s will remain.

[Jorin Helm-splitter]

It's worth pointing out that the successors from the first wave of supplements have access to the parent chapters special doctrine bonus.

 

So I would think you could make a wolf successor and keep savage fury. Just not sure how many of the unique units you could take.

[Rune Priest Jbickb]

Historically part of the wolves fluff has been no successors due to gene seed issues (see Wolf Brothers Chapter). That is until cawl threw a wrench into that by making the Wolf Spears. But the wolf spears are all promaris of fenrisian stock, cawl just made them their own chapter, instead of sending them to fenris. They have, however, not yet retconned spacecwolves successors otherwise.

 

I bring that all up to temper expectations with regard to access to successor tactics. Its possible GW will undo years of fluff, but its equally possible they will stick to it. I do hope they at least give us sone Wolf Spears lore and maybe a chapter tactic for them, but we will have to wait and see.

[FabulousRex]

I'm of 2 minds on successors for SW. On one hand, fluff says Hard No for a variety of reasons. Fluff however can, and does, change or get retconned. Still would leave a wierd taste in my mouth.

 

On the other hand, we could use those rules to make our own custom Great Companies!

[Karhedron]

Technically Wolf Spear don't break any existing fluff about Space Wolves although recruitment might be an issue unless they import a bunch of Fenrisian natives to populate their new homeworld.

[Jorin Helm-splitter]

Historically part of the wolves fluff has been no successors due to gene seed issues (see Wolf Brothers Chapter). That is until cawl threw a wrench into that by making the Wolf Spears. But the wolf spears are all promaris of fenrisian stock, cawl just made them their own chapter, instead of sending them to fenris. They have, however, not yet retconned spacecwolves successors otherwise.

 

I bring that all up to temper expectations with regard to access to successor tactics. Its possible GW will undo years of fluff, but its equally possible they will stick to it. I do hope they at least give us sone Wolf Spears lore and maybe a chapter tactic for them, but we will have to wait and see.

Avenging Son has Cawl making equal numbers of marines from each of the nine loyalist first foundings. So lore wise there should be a ton of new chapters with space wolf geneseed running around.

[Filius]

I'm sorry to interrupt this discussion and hope, that this is the right place to ask a question but … I don't understand what Games Workshop is doing with the Space Marines Codex and the Space Wolves Codex. The Fact, that the Space Wolves Book is now called Supplement and the Codex Space Marines contains the Space Wolves Chapter Tactics looks like we need both of those books (as soon as they are published). Is anything know about this structural change for sure right now, and I just missed it?

 

Afraid so. We will need the regular Marine Codex for all common units and rules as well as our Chapter Tactic. Then we will need the Space Wolves supplement which will cover our unique units and rules (and possibly a list of common units that we do not have access to).

 

On the downside, this is more expensive as we will now need 2 books (possibly 3 if anything in Psychic Awakening is still valid). On the plus side, it means we will now remain on a level-playing field with codex Marines rather than the silly situations we have had over the years where Marines get upgrades or new units and we have to wait months to get the same applied to us.

 

 

Thanks for the answer! I've bought the 7the and 8th Edition of Codex Space Marines anyway, out of curiosity, hehe.

 

That still sounds problematic in a way, as the Codex Space Marines still contains Unit, the Wolves current do not have access to. It raises the question, if we will get access to them (which I doubt) or if the Codex Space Marines just states something like: "This Datasheet is not for Wolves, please take a look at your Supplement". Or if there's a third way: Play Space Wolves as Vanilla Marines (which you can always do, but has not been promoted by Games Workshop lately, as far as I know). Hu-huuu … strange times.

 

Anyway: Thanks again for your patience!