New Space marine Codex and DA

[FarFromSam]

Maybe a squad of terminators. Maybe a squad of ten even. But I can't recall when the last time I have seen a list with more than that.

 

This is the way they sell the game, and with how much they've been able to flesh out the Horus Heresy I'm fine with them fleecing the competitive players. I selfishly ask for a four month pause to enjoy the moment.

 

And to tease band wagoners about their "conversions" :P

 

Ritual of the damned was released january 18th. Less than 9 months with the book.

Better than our furiends with saga of the beast some time in March, 6 months.

Edited October 13, 2020 by farfromsam

[Aeri]

And now they release a new terminator chaplain model?!

Smells fishy.

Not sure I want it.

[MeatGrinder]

And now they release a new terminator chaplain model?!

Smells fishy.

Not sure I want it.

Id say all these new terminator models were from the same run as the Series 2 sm heroes, they all have the same basing style. The new chaplain and the tda libby from earlier in the year. They might be trying to push them out this year before they become obsolete.

[WrathOfTheLion]

I very highly doubt they were manufactured together, considering the Librarian was "Made to Order", although they may have been designed together.

 

I also do not think Terminators will be obsolete any time soon, as there's tons of new art, such as the new SW supplement, with Terminators on them.

Edited October 13, 2020 by WrathOfTheLion

[bigtrouble]

Meh, the model's ok. Very busy. IMO, the classic Termie Chap is one of the best models GW has produced for marines.

 

There is still a major limitation on playing Terminator Chaplains, which is obviously that they can't roll litanies when coming out of deepstrike, unless that's changed?

[Berzul]

No, it hasn't. Although, maybe a stratagem will allow that in the future? Who knows.

[bigtrouble]

A bike chap is the way to go then. I ordered my outrider chaplain, he'll be calling down the terminators in the near future.

[MeatGrinder]

I very highly doubt they were manufactured together, considering the Librarian was "Made to Order", although they may have been designed together.

 

I also do not think Terminators will be obsolete any time soon, as there's tons of new art, such as the new SW supplement, with Terminators on them.

Theyre plastic, so the molds were likely all designed and milled as one. The lead in for plastic models is massive so when you see common elements on models theyre all likely from the same run. Manufacturing is just done whenever they want after that.

[Cpt_Reaper]

I've been looking at suitable models for our new run of Character upgrades.

• Chapter Champion - Dark Angels Legion Praetor
• Chief Apothecary - Legion Apothecary Set

For Chief Librarian, Chapter Ancient, Chapter Master, Master of Sanctity and Master of the Forge it gets a bit trickier. If you play Dark Angels then there are models for the first 3 and they don't have a Master of the Forge (well they do, but he doesn't get out much). If you play a Successor there is a little more freedom, and the models you choose just need to fit your aesthetic. You could convert using the Company Veterans box, use one of the Heresy-era models or even just straight up use one of the handful of limited models if you had access to them. I plan to use my Chaplain Seraphicus as my Master of Sanctity.

 

Also you could run the Dark Angels Interemptors as Company Veterans with 4x plasma guns and a plasma cannon.

[bigtrouble]

I might be late to the party on this one, but the Deathwing Ancient data sheet is missing from the PDF, but the relic banner still exists and clearly states can only be used by Deathwing Ancient unit. This seems like a really strange drop. There is the terminator ancient in the codex, does it say anything about the Deathwing key word?

[WrathOfTheLion]

The terminator ancient in the codex gets the Deathwing keyword.

[Berzul]

I might be late to the party on this one, but the Deathwing Ancient data sheet is missing from the PDF, but the relic banner still exists and clearly states can only be used by Deathwing Ancient unit. This seems like a really strange drop. There is the terminator ancient in the codex, does it say anything about the Deathwing key word?

You can take a TDA Ancient from the Codex, which gains the Deathwing Keyword. Then, he can take the relic banner. He does not gain Inner Circle, though.

[aura_enchanted]

 

I might be late to the party on this one, but the Deathwing Ancient data sheet is missing from the PDF, but the relic banner still exists and clearly states can only be used by Deathwing Ancient unit. This seems like a really strange drop. There is the terminator ancient in the codex, does it say anything about the Deathwing key word?

You can take a TDA Ancient from the Codex, which gains the Deathwing Keyword. Then, he can take the relic banner. He does not gain Inner Circle, though.

 

for now anyway

 

also is 250 a fair points cost to proxy for the land raider excelsior, its that or its 200 points cause it now doesnt have a reference for its lascannons and grav cannon

[Archaeinox]

dang just last weekend I was drooling over all my Dark Angels terminators and how the shooty & assault squads got teleport homers. I started painting them up.

 

then the faq drops and suddenly they want to be Deathwing lol. Yes please, I'll trade teleport homer during the game for Inner Circle!!!

 

Enjoy it while it lasts, fellas.... We all remember the interim period Flames of Tzeentch and Screamers of Tzeentch had before they were suddenly nerfed 

Edited October 13, 2020 by Archaeinox

[Aeri]

I think it's not a broken rule, bit understand the hype.

No obsec, easily blocked deepstrike and mass bolters was always the death of terminators.

However I think it's a solid biff we needed and a very fitting one for our Deathwing.

Now I just wish we had primaris terminators (same rules, just upscaled models?)

[Angel of Solitude]

 

also is 250 a fair points cost to proxy for the land raider excelsior, its that or its 200 points cause it now doesnt have a reference for its lascannons and grav cannon

 

 

If someone at my club wanted to play against me with a legends unit such as the Exclesior, but wanted to pay a fair points cost for it, then here's where I'd start.

 

First, start with the base Land Raider at 285 points. Then I'd adjust for the Grav Cannon/Grav Amp instead of the Twin Heavy Bolter. Slightly trickier this one, but a Grav Cannon upgrade on Devastators is +15 points, and a single Heavy Bolter is +10 points...let's call it equal costs.

 

Next, the special abilities. 5+ Invulnerable save on a vehicle we can proxy by using the Shield Dome upgrade on the Impulsor, which is +15 points, so now 300 points total. Rites of Battle (re-roll 1's) is a big one, because it's not restricted by the CORE keyword and so is quite powerful. It's also a bit more difficult to quantify, so here goes:

 

• Chapter Champion has broadly equivalent stats to a Captain, but Captain has the re-roll aura.
• Company Champion is 55pts + 15pts upgrade so 70pts
• Captain is 85 pts, so that's a starting bid of 15pts for the Rites of Battle ability (restricted by CORE).
• +10pts to take away the CORE restriction?

I'd give you Data Augurs for free, as that would require taking two Legends models in the same list. So in total, that's 325pts at least as a "fair" points cost for the Excelsior. 

 

So there you have it - 325 points as a "fair" price to bring an Excelsior along.

Edited October 14, 2020 by Angel of Solitude

[WrathOfTheLion]

The Bladeguard Ancient also has the DEATHWING and ANCIENT keywords, so he would be a valid unit to give the relic banner to as well.

 

I do quite like the new chaplain. I'm going to likely get a second to make a Firewing Chaplain consul to be an Interrogator-Chaplain for Horus Heresy, as the station did exist at the time. Will need to make a Deathwing Companions squad in Indomitus terminator armor for it as well, that should be a quite fun project using the Deathwing terminator kit.

Edited October 14, 2020 by WrathOfTheLion

[Master Sheol]

The Bladeguard Ancient also has the DEATHWING and ANCIENT keywords, so he would be a valid unit to give the relic banner to as well.

 

I do quite like the new chaplain. I'm going to likely get a second to make a Firewing Chaplain consul to be an Interrogator-Chaplain for Horus Heresy, as the station did exist at the time. Will need to make a Deathwing Companions squad in Indomitus terminator armor for it as well, that should be a quite fun project using the Deathwing terminator kit.

The Bladeguard ancient is just a bonus for bladeguard and not for TDA

he doesn't have teleport strike so he must ride inside a impulsor/repulsor with bladeguards

He also have a bad wargear without invulnerable save and without a melee weapon, just a pistol he has

Sorry but he is not a good candidate for that relic banner

He is a good candidate to just pass his time on that shelf in your hobby room where you put the collector/exposition models :P

Edited October 14, 2020 by Master Sheol

[Berzul]

 

The Bladeguard Ancient also has the DEATHWING and ANCIENT keywords, so he would be a valid unit to give the relic banner to as well.

 

I do quite like the new chaplain. I'm going to likely get a second to make a Firewing Chaplain consul to be an Interrogator-Chaplain for Horus Heresy, as the station did exist at the time. Will need to make a Deathwing Companions squad in Indomitus terminator armor for it as well, that should be a quite fun project using the Deathwing terminator kit.

The Bladeguard ancient is just a bonus for bladeguard and not for TDA

he doesn't have teleport strike so he must ride inside a impulsor/repulsor with bladeguards

He also have a bad wargear without invulnerable save and without a melee weapon, just a pistol he has

Sorry but he is not a good candidate for that relic banner

He is a good candidate to just pass his time on that shelf in your hobby room where you put the collector/exposition models

 

 

He looks pretty, tho.

[MeatGrinder]

I think it's not a broken rule, bit understand the hype.

No obsec, easily blocked deepstrike and mass bolters was always the death of terminators.

However I think it's a solid biff we needed and a very fitting one for our Deathwing.

Now I just wish we had primaris terminators (same rules, just upscaled models?)

You can actually give units obsec now, there are two CTs that do it. I posted a pure DW list earlier in the thread with both of them. I actually think with 3 wounds each and SSs we're looking at terminators that are a hell of a lot more durable than they used to be. Mobility is still an issue, but you can probably just run them these days onto objectived and just sit their being pure obnoxious.

[Berzul]

 

I think it's not a broken rule, bit understand the hype.

No obsec, easily blocked deepstrike and mass bolters was always the death of terminators.

However I think it's a solid biff we needed and a very fitting one for our Deathwing.

Now I just wish we had primaris terminators (same rules, just upscaled models?)

You can actually give units obsec now, there are two CTs that do it. I posted a pure DW list earlier in the thread with both of them. I actually think with 3 wounds each and SSs we're looking at terminators that are a hell of a lot more durable than they used to be. Mobility is still an issue, but you can probably just run them these days onto objectived and just sit their being pure obnoxious.

 

babysitting an objective with melee termiantors might be a waste of resources often times. But you could sit a regular squad with an Ancient and accomplish a good enough effect.

 

They'd still be Inner Circle (except the Ancient), so only wounded on 4+. Their armor is still 2+/5++, and they'd have FnP6+. With 3 wounds? That is quite durable indeed.

[WrathOfTheLion]

I do agree and think the normal Deathwing Ancient will be more useful right now. But it is something that can be done, so I did mention it.

[bigtrouble]

I'm still so confused why GW would omit the Deathwing Ancient. I mean it was right there...

 

I guess maybe they felt it was a duplicate data sheet with the terminator ancient?

 

Or maybe excluding it from Inner Circle and the Command Squad was purposeful once they realized how incredibly cheap 100 pts is for a 5+ FNP aura that can deepstrike to within 6" of enemy models and can't be targeted. 

[WrathOfTheLion]

Simply datasheet optimization. It happened to match the one in the base codex.

 

Inner Circle will be added later I think, as we've seen a similar mechanic when they added the 'Angels of Death' ability in Ritual of the Damned.

[MeatGrinder]

I think Inner circle is an omission, and that units that get the deathwing keyword should also get the inner circle keyword. Likely because the codex would have been written months and months in advance of the index, they didnt have any plans for the IC keyword at the time.

Edited October 14, 2020 by MeatGrinder