New Space marine Codex and DA

[WrathOfTheLion]

Inner circle exists in the 8E codex as an ability, as does jink. I think the keyword exists as well.

 

However, as shown in RotD, it's like a one-line rule to apply those rules to the units in the base codex. I posted in an earlier thread:

 

The rule from Ritual of the Damned:
"All Dark Angels units in Codex: Dark Angels (Excluding Servitors) gain the Angels of Death ability:"

 

Similar rule we could expect in Codex Supplement: Dark Angels

"All Dark Angels Ravenwing units in Codex: Space Marines gain the Jink ability."

 

Or

"All Dark Angels Deathwing units in Codex: Space Marines gain the Inner Circle keyword and the Inner Circle ability."

 

So it should be trivial in our book to apply these. We can see from reading RotD that there are existing rules of this form. As RotD is a supplement to Codex: Dark Angels, we can extrapolate how a supplement to Codex: Space Marines could apply abilities in similar form.

Edited October 14, 2020 by WrathOfTheLion

[MeatGrinder]

So likely an omission like I said, because it is so trivial to add. Though if they planned to add it, because its so trivial to do, why didnt they in the index? Im pretty sure the indexes themselves were rushed out and id like them to update and faq them at some point to fix these issues, or at least clarify a few things.

[WrathOfTheLion]

Oh definitely an omission, there's clearly meant to be a mechanic there. But they were not going to put the rule in Codex: Space Marines.

 

It could be to incentivize getting the book, giving us something to look forward to. I do agree, the index does look rushed though, so perhaps it's just that. I'm thinking they originally were going to have us use FAQs on top of Codex: DA/RotD and decided against it later.

[bigtrouble]

So likely an omission like I said, because it is so trivial to add. Though if they planned to add it, because its so trivial to do, why didnt they in the index? Im pretty sure the indexes themselves were rushed out and id like them to update and faq them at some point to fix these issues, or at least clarify a few things.

Maybe rushed out, but they have to be pretty close to print date on those supplements by now to get a January or February release date, so those data sheets could be close to the form we’d expect to get.

[WandererTheta]

 

I think it's not a broken rule, bit understand the hype.

No obsec, easily blocked deepstrike and mass bolters was always the death of terminators.

However I think it's a solid biff we needed and a very fitting one for our Deathwing.

Now I just wish we had primaris terminators (same rules, just upscaled models?)

You can actually give units obsec now, there are two CTs that do it. I posted a pure DW list earlier in the thread with both of them. I actually think with 3 wounds each and SSs we're looking at terminators that are a hell of a lot more durable than they used to be. Mobility is still an issue, but you can probably just run them these days onto objectived and just sit their being pure obnoxious.

 

You lose the benefits of Inner Circle if you use a chapter tactic other than the Dark Angels one or Inheritor of the Primarch (Dark Angels).

[WrathOfTheLion]

He may have meant Warlord Traits, could be a mistype.

 

I don't remember any of the chapter tactics doing that, but I think there's some relics or WTs that do. I don't have the codex yet to check.

[MeatGrinder]

Yes I mean Warlord traits, in AoS they are command traits. Youll see me say warscroll instead of datasheet too sometimes.

[Guest Royal Cactus]

So do I understand this correctly? All units except Stern-and Vanguard? So I could run Dark Angels Ironclad-Dreadnoughts and Centurion Squads?

[UtariOnzo]

Yes, you can

[Hantheman]

I think it's not a broken rule, bit understand the hype.

No obsec, easily blocked deepstrike and mass bolters was always the death of terminators.

However I think it's a solid biff we needed and a very fitting one for our Deathwing.

Now I just wish we had primaris terminators (same rules, just upscaled models?)

 

Yeah this whole idea that it's busted I think is a bit off. 

 

If terminators were to be run, prior to this coex, tyou'd be spending 2CP to transhuman them every turn they were on the table and you could anyway. It's very strong, but doesn't increase the kill potential of a model and that's usually what breaks games. You could very easily ignore and run away a set of terminators once they're on the table.

Edited October 15, 2020 by Hantheman

[Berzul]

So, it saves us CP.

 

Considering lack of CP WAS one of the BIG issues with pure DW, this actually works out nicely.

[Master Sheol]

So do I understand this correctly? All units except Stern-and Vanguard? So I could run Dark Angels Ironclad-Dreadnoughts and Centurion Squads?

And Thunderfires

[Angel of Solitude]

 

So do I understand this correctly? All units except Stern-and Vanguard? So I could run Dark Angels Ironclad-Dreadnoughts and Centurion Squads?

And Thunderfires

 

Yeah, although:

• Thunderfires now fire with an S4 AP0 D1 profile and do not have the CORE keyword;
• Centurions aso don't have the CORE keyword, and lose access to Bolter Discipline;
• Ironclad Dreadnoughts also don't get access to Bolter Discipline, and the Ironcla dAssault Launchers ability is now a 1CP stratagem.

Nice to have gained access to them, but I think they've been nerfed somewhat compared with their 8th Ed heyday.

[WrathOfTheLion]

I think the Deathwing trait is quite good, but it's not broken. Looking at the Necrons, I think the Transhuman-style toughness will end up across more units in the game. I wouldn't be surprised if Blightlords or something got it.

 

Centurions are also some of the ugliest models in the game. I am certainly fine with them not being the best now that we have access to them.

[Aeri]

Eliminators becoming 2+ to hit is kinda bad since it invalidates our chapter tactic a bit. It makes sense since they are snipers, but still... Kinda bothers me :)

[Angel of Solitude]

Eliminators becoming 2+ to hit is kinda bad since it invalidates our chapter tactic a bit. It makes sense since they are snipers, but still... Kinda bothers me

 

Nah, just means we can snipe aircraft pilots with no penalty to hit ;)

[Aeri]

Which are their prime targets ;)

[Dagoth Ur]

Just out of curiosity - I haven't really played in 8th edition and have decided to dip my toes back in with Dark Angels. Is there any way to reliably play a deathwing army proper, i.e. an army with as little Power Armour as possible? Or is that a relic of 7th edition and prior? Any fraters willing to give me a pointer or two?

[aura_enchanted]

Just out of curiosity - I haven't really played in 8th edition and have decided to dip my toes back in with Dark Angels. Is there any way to reliably play a deathwing army proper, i.e. an army with as little Power Armour as possible? Or is that a relic of 7th edition and prior? Any fraters willing to give me a pointer or two?

Well for one scouts aren't troops so you'll need at least 2 tactical marine squads as their now the cheapest in slot.

 

Belial is frankly terrible, he really needs a rework in the worst way if they want people to even consider him. This being said terminator interrogator chaplains are kinda hot right now. And the terminator librarian and generic master are still on the table

 

I wouldn't go anywhere without pointing out that dreadnaughts are no longer deathwing now so you'll need to just live with that dead synergy.

 

And ravenwing are essential to make deathwing amazing because of the potential for 4" charges and 6" deepstrikes

 

And don't go anywhere without the deathwing ancient and his relic banner as well as an apothecary of some kind, the ravenwing one is ideal but u could get by with less

 

The above being said, you've never had more options for terminators, you have the relic tartaros (proxy old cataphracts as tartaros), tac and assault termites, and then the bladeguard veterans are also now deathwing.

 

Is it practical.. no not really the dark angels do their best work variety bagged. But the deathwing have never been more powerful then right here, right now and some matches youll win off the back of the terminators simple not staying down or dying fast enough for your opponent to manage.

 

I think the days of pure deathwing are as good as dead, and I'm not sure they will ever be good even in these psuedo pure deathwing (and 2 squads of other) lists.

Edited October 16, 2020 by aura_enchanted

[WrathOfTheLion]

Just out of curiosity - I haven't really played in 8th edition and have decided to dip my toes back in with Dark Angels. Is there any way to reliably play a deathwing army proper, i.e. an army with as little Power Armour as possible? Or is that a relic of 7th edition and prior? Any fraters willing to give me a pointer or two?

We don't have full rules yet, so there isn't much conclusive there.

 

There's no current mechanism for promoting Dreadnoughts or anything to deathwing, although that doesn't really much matter as they wouldn't benefit from any rules for it.

 

But in general, I would wait until January before making any conclusions, as what we have is just an index right now and isn't conclusive for anything.

 

If you haven't started any Deathwing, you could pick up some relatively safe things like some Deathwing knights and a command squad and that might keep you busy during the couple months before the book is out.

Edited October 16, 2020 by WrathOfTheLion

[Berzul]

Just out of curiosity - I haven't really played in 8th edition and have decided to dip my toes back in with Dark Angels. Is there any way to reliably play a deathwing army proper, i.e. an army with as little Power Armour as possible? Or is that a relic of 7th edition and prior? Any fraters willing to give me a pointer or two?

Well, if there ever WAS a good time to play Deathwing since the beginning of 8th edition, it is now, I think.

 

• You take Belial as the Master of the Deathwing in a Vanguard Detachment for +3 CP.
• That immediately frees up the slot for your first DW squad. You just pay 10 extra points for it, and you upgrade your first 5 guys into a Command Squad, which doesn't take a Slot as long as Belial leads your force.
• That means you can now add the DW Champion, the DW Apothecary, and the DW Ancient, all of the without using slots, since they don't take one when the Command Squad is present.
• That means you can add a max of 10 elite choices in one Vanguard Detachment, for just 3CP. Meaning you make a full DW Force, and still be left with a LOT of CP to spend.
• You can give your DW Ancient the upgrade into a Chapter Ancient, and give him the Trait that makes him Objective Secured. Or even take a regular Deathwing Master instead of Belial, and give THAT guy ALSO the regular warlord trait that makes him objective secured. Meaning you have up to two 6" auras of objective secured terminators.

 

Then? Just fill up with as many terminators and landraiders as you can!

 

And you will have an army that is all 3W a model, that (save for the Ancient or the Generic Master in TDA) can only be wounded on a 4+. Which makes them seriously tough on the board.

[MeatGrinder]

Just out of curiosity - I haven't really played in 8th edition and have decided to dip my toes back in with Dark Angels. Is there any way to reliably play a deathwing army proper, i.e. an army with as little Power Armour as possible? Or is that a relic of 7th edition and prior? Any fraters willing to give me a pointer or two?

You can now take a Vanguard detatchment, a bunch of support heroes that wont take up slots, and take two command traits that give obsec auras, your models are 1+4++ with shields, only wounded on 4+. Now is probably the best time to run pure deathwing in years.

[MeatGrinder]

 

Just out of curiosity - I haven't really played in 8th edition and have decided to dip my toes back in with Dark Angels. Is there any way to reliably play a deathwing army proper, i.e. an army with as little Power Armour as possible? Or is that a relic of 7th edition and prior? Any fraters willing to give me a pointer or two?

Well for one scouts aren't troops so you'll need at least 2 tactical marine squads as their now the cheapest in slot.

 

 Why would he need tac marines or scouts? I also assume you meant 3 not two for a battalion.

[Sete]

Word in the street, you guys will have a good codex.

Not sure about new models.

[Archaeinox]

Azrael giving an extra CP is pretty slick. Makes me feel better about having Vanguard + Outrider with no troops. I really like the idea of smol units of ravenwing bikers. I need more.

Edited October 16, 2020 by Archaeinox