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New Space marine Codex and DA


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#301
G8Keeper

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Word in the street, you guys will have a good codex.
Not sure about new models.


Please direct us to said street. Pretty please?
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#302
plasmaspam

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Just out of curiosity - I haven't really played in 8th edition and have decided to dip my toes back in with Dark Angels. Is there any way to reliably play a deathwing army proper, i.e. an army with as little Power Armour as possible? Or is that a relic of 7th edition and prior? Any fraters willing to give me a pointer or two?


Well, if there ever WAS a good time to play Deathwing since the beginning of 8th edition, it is now, I think.
 
  • You take Belial as the Master of the Deathwing in a Vanguard Detachment for +3 CP.
  • That immediately frees up the slot for your first DW squad. You just pay 10 extra points for it, and you upgrade your first 5 guys into a Command Squad, which doesn't take a Slot as long as Belial leads your force.
  • That means you can now add the DW Champion, the DW Apothecary, and the DW Ancient, all of the without using slots, since they don't take one when the Command Squad is present.
  • That means you can add a max of 10 elite choices in one Vanguard Detachment, for just 3CP. Meaning you make a full DW Force, and still be left with a LOT of CP to spend.
  • You can give your DW Ancient the upgrade into a Chapter Ancient, and give him the Trait that makes him Objective Secured. Or even take a regular Deathwing Master instead of Belial, and give THAT guy ALSO the regular warlord trait that makes him objective secured. Meaning you have up to two 6" auras of objective secured terminators.
 
Then? Just fill up with as many terminators and landraiders as you can!
 
And you will have an army that is all 3W a model, that (save for the Ancient or the Generic Master in TDA) can only be wounded on a 4+. Which makes them seriously tough on the board.

Except for the damned rule of sodding three.

#303
Berzul

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Just out of curiosity - I haven't really played in 8th edition and have decided to dip my toes back in with Dark Angels. Is there any way to reliably play a deathwing army proper, i.e. an army with as little Power Armour as possible? Or is that a relic of 7th edition and prior? Any fraters willing to give me a pointer or two?


Well, if there ever WAS a good time to play Deathwing since the beginning of 8th edition, it is now, I think.
 
  • You take Belial as the Master of the Deathwing in a Vanguard Detachment for +3 CP.
  • That immediately frees up the slot for your first DW squad. You just pay 10 extra points for it, and you upgrade your first 5 guys into a Command Squad, which doesn't take a Slot as long as Belial leads your force.
  • That means you can now add the DW Champion, the DW Apothecary, and the DW Ancient, all of the without using slots, since they don't take one when the Command Squad is present.
  • That means you can add a max of 10 elite choices in one Vanguard Detachment, for just 3CP. Meaning you make a full DW Force, and still be left with a LOT of CP to spend.
  • You can give your DW Ancient the upgrade into a Chapter Ancient, and give him the Trait that makes him Objective Secured. Or even take a regular Deathwing Master instead of Belial, and give THAT guy ALSO the regular warlord trait that makes him objective secured. Meaning you have up to two 6" auras of objective secured terminators.
 
Then? Just fill up with as many terminators and landraiders as you can!
 
And you will have an army that is all 3W a model, that (save for the Ancient or the Generic Master in TDA) can only be wounded on a 4+. Which makes them seriously tough on the board.

Except for the damned rule of sodding three.

 

3 Deathwing Terminator Squads

3 Deathwing Knight Squads

1 Deathwing Command Squad

1 Deathwing Champion

1 Deathwing Apothecary

1 Deathwing Ancient

 

That's 10 slots right there, with up to 68 terminators in total, at maximum capacity of each squad.

 

Add 3 Venerable Dreadnoughts, in another Detachment? You can get up to 13 elite choices.... Make it even more, if you add other types of Dreadnoughts.


Edited by Berzul, 16 October 2020 - 10:51 PM.

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#304
WrathOfTheLion

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We can conclude relic terminators, assault terminators and normal terminators from the base codex might get inner circle & all as well. But that will be in a few months.

 

If you're willing to take more limited options, would allow for even more terminators.


Edited by WrathOfTheLion, 16 October 2020 - 11:13 PM.

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#305
Berzul

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We can conclude relic terminators, assault terminators and normal terminators from the base codex might get inner circle & all as well. But that will be in a few months.

 

If you're willing to take more limited options, would allow for even more terminators.

 

Absolutely right. I am so used to just regular terminators, that I completely left out these other variants that are now, technically, allowed to us by the Codex: Space Marines.


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#306
WrathOfTheLion

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I could see using teleport homers with the more limited options being useful at times as well. They're there if we need them, could end up good for certain tasks.


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#307
Archaeinox

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Sorry how does Belial give +3 CP? Are you saying spend the 3CP? Because the damn vanguards wont refund it right


Edited by Archaeinox, 17 October 2020 - 01:27 AM.

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#308
Berzul

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Sorry how does Belial give +3 CP? Are you saying spend the 3CP? Because the damn vanguards wont refund it right


Yeah. He increases CP Cost by 3.

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#309
Grand Master Raziel

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I know it's a little obnoxious that Scouts have been moved to the Elite slot, but does anyone else think they still might have some play? One use for them could be a cheap unit to perform Actions to help rake up the Secondary points. I know a Tac Squad could do that as well for not many more points, but Scouts can be put virtually anywhere on the table during deployment, so you can start them off right where you want them.

 

Another idea I had was for a sniper-tastic list, based around Eliminators, Stalker-Intercessors (Stalker-cessors?), and sniper Scouts. Opponents are apt to shoot at the Intercessors to clear them off objectives and the Eliminators cause Eliminators, leaving the sniper Scouts to plink away unmolested. With our Chapter Tactic, they'll be hitting on 2's and generating mortals on 5's. Seems like they could do some work.


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#310
MeatGrinder

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I know it's a little obnoxious that Scouts have been moved to the Elite slot, but does anyone else think they still might have some play? One use for them could be a cheap unit to perform Actions to help rake up the Secondary points. I know a Tac Squad could do that as well for not many more points, but Scouts can be put virtually anywhere on the table during deployment, so you can start them off right where you want them.
 
Another idea I had was for a sniper-tastic list, based around Eliminators, Stalker-Intercessors (Stalker-cessors?), and sniper Scouts. Opponents are apt to shoot at the Intercessors to clear them off objectives and the Eliminators cause Eliminators, leaving the sniper Scouts to plink away unmolested. With our Chapter Tactic, they'll be hitting on 2's and generating mortals on 5's. Seems like they could do some work.


Its unmodified 6s.
I dont see the use for them over units like infiltrators, who will also screen out the board, and are tougher to kill. For a sniper unit snipercessors are better, as theyll be rocking ap-3 in devastator. I think the humble scout will be only be infiltrating peoples shelves for a while.
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#311
bigtrouble

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I could see using teleport homers with the more limited options being useful at times as well. They're there if we need them, could end up good for certain tasks.


So as of right now, we basically have a choice between staying (Inner Circle) or running away (Teleport Homer). Hmm...

#312
Master Sheol

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I could see using teleport homers with the more limited options being useful at times as well. They're there if we need them, could end up good for certain tasks.


So as of right now, we basically have a choice between staying (Inner Circle) or running away (Teleport Homer). Hmm...

 

If the supplement will extend the IC rule to all units with DW keyword regular terminators will be a contender to DW terminators

The first ones will have less flexibility in wargear options and no Watcher but access to teleport homers

The second ones will have flexibility and the Watchers but no teleport homer

 

I know that a squad of assault terminators qith teleport homers can be attractive over a DW squad with melee weapons but there is some things to consider for DA

First DA have access to DWK too that are totally brutal in melee cause they have a better weapon and WS2+

Second the DWT squad lose access to teleport homer but they get the option to equip one terminator each five models with a CML on top of the melee weapons

Third considering shooting terminators you have access to Plasma Cannons and you can throw in a some THSS for better survavibility of the squad

 

It will be a though choice between vanilla terminators and DWT squads


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#313
Jings

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Just out of curiosity - I haven't really played in 8th edition and have decided to dip my toes back in with Dark Angels. Is there any way to reliably play a deathwing army proper, i.e. an army with as little Power Armour as possible? Or is that a relic of 7th edition and prior? Any fraters willing to give me a pointer or two?

Well, if there ever WAS a good time to play Deathwing since the beginning of 8th edition, it is now, I think.

  • You take Belial as the Master of the Deathwing in a Vanguard Detachment for +3 CP.
  • That immediately frees up the slot for your first DW squad. You just pay 10 extra points for it, and you upgrade your first 5 guys into a Command Squad, which doesn't take a Slot as long as Belial leads your force.
  • That means you can now add the DW Champion, the DW Apothecary, and the DW Ancient, all of the without using slots, since they don't take one when the Command Squad is present.
  • That means you can add a max of 10 elite choices in one Vanguard Detachment, for just 3CP. Meaning you make a full DW Force, and still be left with a LOT of CP to spend.
  • You can give your DW Ancient the upgrade into a Chapter Ancient, and give him the Trait that makes him Objective Secured. Or even take a regular Deathwing Master instead of Belial, and give THAT guy ALSO the regular warlord trait that makes him objective secured. Meaning you have up to two 6" auras of objective secured terminators.
Then? Just fill up with as many terminators and landraiders as you can!

And you will have an army that is all 3W a model, that (save for the Ancient or the Generic Master in TDA) can only be wounded on a 4+. Which makes them seriously tough on the board.
Except for the damned rule of sodding three.

Relic Termies tho, provided GW FAQ the damn inner circle / deathwing debacle.

#314
Master Sheol

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Just out of curiosity - I haven't really played in 8th edition and have decided to dip my toes back in with Dark Angels. Is there any way to reliably play a deathwing army proper, i.e. an army with as little Power Armour as possible? Or is that a relic of 7th edition and prior? Any fraters willing to give me a pointer or two?

Well, if there ever WAS a good time to play Deathwing since the beginning of 8th edition, it is now, I think.

  • You take Belial as the Master of the Deathwing in a Vanguard Detachment for +3 CP.
  • That immediately frees up the slot for your first DW squad. You just pay 10 extra points for it, and you upgrade your first 5 guys into a Command Squad, which doesn't take a Slot as long as Belial leads your force.
  • That means you can now add the DW Champion, the DW Apothecary, and the DW Ancient, all of the without using slots, since they don't take one when the Command Squad is present.
  • That means you can add a max of 10 elite choices in one Vanguard Detachment, for just 3CP. Meaning you make a full DW Force, and still be left with a LOT of CP to spend.
  • You can give your DW Ancient the upgrade into a Chapter Ancient, and give him the Trait that makes him Objective Secured. Or even take a regular Deathwing Master instead of Belial, and give THAT guy ALSO the regular warlord trait that makes him objective secured. Meaning you have up to two 6" auras of objective secured terminators.
Then? Just fill up with as many terminators and landraiders as you can!

And you will have an army that is all 3W a model, that (save for the Ancient or the Generic Master in TDA) can only be wounded on a 4+. Which makes them seriously tough on the board.
Except for the damned rule of sodding three.

Relic Termies tho, provided GW FAQ the damn inner circle / deathwing debacle.

 

In reality they dont need to FAQ that

they will simply put a line in the supplement like that

"If a unit has the DEATHWING keyword it also gains the Inner Circle rule"

and

"If a unit has the RAVENWING keyword it also gains the Jink rule"

And until that supplement they will leave DA go on with units half with special rule and half without cause clearly the indexes are temporary placeholders and GW dont care about their consistency

 

The only thing is how to give the DEATHWING keyword to those units that should or could have it now that the startagems upgrading units (like Captain to Chapter Master upgrade) are gone

We know that in he past it was possible to upgrade LR and VenDread to DW paying points (in some iterations of the DA codex the VenDread was automatically DW while battle and reserve comapnies had access only to standard dread) and tat up to 7th edition codex all company masters were automatically DW and that was changed (in a stupid way i would say cause ALL company masters are also members of the DW) so you had to spend CP to upgrade your Masters, LR and dreads to DW


Edited by Master Sheol, 17 October 2020 - 09:29 PM.

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