G8Keeper Posted October 5, 2020 Share Posted October 5, 2020 I think you're reading it right. It does seem a bit OP but it's been a long time since DA had much for others to be jealous of. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Angel of Solitude Posted October 5, 2020 Share Posted October 5, 2020 Well here’s a thing. While Outriders get the RAVENWING and Bladeguard get the DEATHWING keywords, they don’t get their respective company benefit - I.e. Jink and Inner Circle. I think that’s quite a neat way of incorporating the Primaris units into these two companies while maintaining a clear benefit to Firstborn. Knights are here to stay! And as regards Sammael...we can prey he’s going to be Rubicon’d and gets a new Storm Speeder to ride :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WrathOfTheLion Posted October 5, 2020 Share Posted October 5, 2020 The thing is bikers, attack bikes, land speeders, etc. don't get those rules either, and if you have a captain in terminator armour, he doesn't get them either, neither does a ravenwing master get jink. So in this interim, your ravenwing master doesn't have those rules, but his underlings do. So we can conclude there's a missing mechanic here that will likely be implemented in the Supplement Note as well that the strategem for promoting deathwing is gone too. I think this will end up implemented as a point upgrade or something of the sort. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Bahram Posted October 5, 2020 Share Posted October 5, 2020 So - my DW from 2014 seems to hot again. What goes around, comes around... For the Lion! WrathOfTheLion, Chaplain Lucifer and G8Keeper 3 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Berzul Posted October 5, 2020 Share Posted October 5, 2020 This whole thing seems very poorly structured... I am VERY confused. Helias_Tancred 1 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G8Keeper Posted October 5, 2020 Share Posted October 5, 2020 This whole thing seems very poorly structured... I am VERY confused. It's not too bad. What's got your noggin spinning mate? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Angel of Solitude Posted October 5, 2020 Share Posted October 5, 2020 The thing is bikers, attack bikes, land speeders, etc. don't get those rules either, and if you have a captain in terminator armour, he doesn't get them either, neither does a ravenwing master get jink. So in this interim, your ravenwing master doesn't have those rules, but his underlings do. So we can conclude there's a missing mechanic here that will likely be implemented in the Supplement Note as well that the strategem for promoting deathwing is gone too. I think this will end up implemented as a point upgrade or something of the sort. Regular bikes, speeders and attack bikes not getting Jink does feel like a missing mechanic. But equally, there is stratagem support in the new C:SM to achieve this, like there was in Ritual of the Damned. As for the Deathwing and Ravenwing Masters...GW haven’t really promoted the idea of non-names characters in the role of Grand Masters of the Deathwing and Ravenwing. I don’t see this as an inconsistency in the FAQ, just a continuation of GW’s approach through 8th. Brother Ramael 1 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Ramael Posted October 5, 2020 Share Posted October 5, 2020 The thing is bikers, attack bikes, land speeders, etc. don't get those rules either, and if you have a captain in terminator armour, he doesn't get them either, neither does a ravenwing master get jink. So in this interim, your ravenwing master doesn't have those rules, but his underlings do. So we can conclude there's a missing mechanic here that will likely be implemented in the Supplement Note as well that the strategem for promoting deathwing is gone too. I think this will end up implemented as a point upgrade or something of the sort. Regular bikes, speeders and attack bikes not getting Jink does feel like a missing mechanic. But equally, there is stratagem support in the new C:SM to achieve this, like there was in Ritual of the Damned. As for the Deathwing and Ravenwing Masters...GW haven’t really promoted the idea of non-names characters in the role of Grand Masters of the Deathwing and Ravenwing. I don’t see this as an inconsistency in the FAQ, just a continuation of GW’s approach through 8th. The Codex needs an update for sure Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WrathOfTheLion Posted October 5, 2020 Share Posted October 5, 2020 Except the Deathwing Master could be a master of another company, and previously had Deathwing/Inner Circle. So I think it's something we'll see, but we'll have to wait some months for the book. The main thing is that the Jink and Inner Circle rules are not in Codex: Space Marines. So they will not reference them in that publication, preferring some modification in the future suppement. Brother Ramael 1 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UtariOnzo Posted October 5, 2020 Share Posted October 5, 2020 Well this is a lot to unpack. Glad to see Inner Circle isn’t useless garbage anymore. I suspect the full Supplement will incorporate the new 1st and 2nd company rules to the applicable codex:sm units, and that this pdf is focused just on our unique units for now G8Keeper and WrathOfTheLion 2 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
solarisqc Posted October 5, 2020 Author Share Posted October 5, 2020 Just updated the main post with all the info from the updated WrathOfTheLion 1 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UtariOnzo Posted October 5, 2020 Share Posted October 5, 2020 Oh wow, just missed that Successors also get explicit and clear support by being able to take DA only relics and have their own Ravenwing/Deathwing warlords selecting a trait. No more strictly needing Not-Sammaels and Not-Belials? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShadowCore67 Posted October 5, 2020 Share Posted October 5, 2020 Anyone else think it's weird that there's a Deathwing command squad but not a Ravenwing one? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
solarisqc Posted October 5, 2020 Author Share Posted October 5, 2020 My interpretation of this updated is realy simple, look like it's missing 1 page with all the DA codex stratagem, and relic and the info about Deathwing giving the inner circle rules and Ravenwing giving the Jink rules. This updated cover all datasheet in DA codex and everything in the ROTD book but don't cover rules, stratagem and relic from the DA codex, look like a big mistake from GW. Gederas 1 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WrathOfTheLion Posted October 5, 2020 Share Posted October 5, 2020 Yes, I think the change to supplement has forced them to address the issue of successors. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UtariOnzo Posted October 5, 2020 Share Posted October 5, 2020 From my reading, we don't even need to take Inheritors of the Primarch: Dark Angels to get access to the relics/units, just be DA successors: DATASHEETS With the exception of named characters, you can nominate any Dark Angels units in your army to be from a Dark Angels successor Chapter. If you do, replace the Dark Angels keyword in every instance on its datasheet with the name of your chosen successor Chapter However, if we aren't DA or taking the Inheritors of the Primarch: Lion el'Johnson, the ravenwing and deathwing units lose inner circle/jink rules. It doesn't restrict the units themselves only to those playing DA or Inheritors Chapters, instead it explicitly checks if the rule applies or not given previous selections If this unit has the Grim Resolve Chapter Tactic, or it has the Inheritors of the Primarch Successor tactic and it is using the Chapter Tactic of the Dark Angels, then: This means you can tailor Successor traits to your Unforgiven chapter if you're willing to lose the bonuses of inner circle/jink, while still having access to the units and Relics of Caliban (at a cost of CP) giving us a fair bit of flexibility for our other Sons of the Lion Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Angel of Solitude Posted October 5, 2020 Share Posted October 5, 2020 (edited) My interpretation of this updated is realy simple, look like it's missing 1 page with all the DA codex stratagem, and relic and the info about Deathwing giving the inner circle rules and Ravenwing giving the Jink rules. This updated cover all datasheet in DA codex and everything in the ROTD book but don't cover rules, stratagem and relic from the DA codex, look like a big mistake from GW. "The rules presented in the 8th edition (printed 2018) version of Codex: Dark Angels are no longer supported, and cannot be used." All of the DA Codex Strats have been replaced with the new C:SM strats, and we've been provided some additional, DA-specific strats in this update. Likewise, every datasheet that needs the Jink or Inner Circle special rule has it. If you want to get a 4++ on your "regular" Ravenwing Bikes, Attack Bikes, ATVs, Land Speeders and Storm Speeders, then the you have the new High Speed Focus stratagem to do just that. This is a stratagem they introduced in Ritual of the Damned, and I'd argue is better than the old Jink because you now no longer have to Advance to get your 4++. You could argue that the Captain in Terminator Armour (Deathwing) and Captain on Bike (Ravenwing) entries are the oddities, but not only do they not get Inner Circle/Jink, but they also don't get the Grand Master benefit that Belial and Sammael convey to their respective chapters. So I guess what this is saying: Yes, you can put a master on a bike, or in terminator armour, and they will receive the stratagem and aura support from being in those companies, but they won't be considered to be the Grand Master of those companies, as there are named characters for those. Edited October 5, 2020 by Angel of Solitude Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
solarisqc Posted October 5, 2020 Author Share Posted October 5, 2020 I look at the BA and SW updated and they have the same problem we have, the updated don't included any stratagem from the Codex, only from the PA supplement, same for the relic, no relic from the BA or SW Codex, only from the respective PA book. This look like an ommision from GW, this also mean that our Special Character don't have Warlord trait assign to them and we can't use any WT from our Codex Specific for DA, it mean we don't have the stratagem: Deathwing Assault, speed of the Raven, Intractable, Never Forgive, Never Forget, WFTDA, Hunt the Fallen, The Lion and The Wolf, Fortress of Shield and Inner Circle. And for Relic, we have no acces to Heavenfall blade. Foe-smiter, Shroud of heroes, Mace of redemtion, Lion's Roar and Eye of the unseen. Also, i just realise that Ezekiel have +1 to cast interromancy power but he don't know any... we have lost all our specific Psychic power. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UtariOnzo Posted October 5, 2020 Share Posted October 5, 2020 With the change to Thunderhammers, Deathwing Knights are back on the menu as well, being basically THs now but hitting on 2+ and the unit as a whole having Transhumanity baked in. Add an apothecary and the new Chappy on bike for charging bonuses and even a 5 man squad becomes scary Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Angel of Solitude Posted October 5, 2020 Share Posted October 5, 2020 I look at the BA and SW updated and they have the same problem we have, the updated don't included any stratagem from the Codex, only from the PA supplement, same for the relic, no relic from the BA or SW Codex, only from the respective PA book. This look like an ommision from GW, this also mean that our Special Character don't have Warlord trait assign to them and we can't use any WT from our Codex Specific for DA, it mean we don't have the stratagem: Deathwing Assault, speed of the Raven, Intractable, Never Forgive, Never Forget, WFTDA, Hunt the Fallen, The Lion and The Wolf, Fortress of Shield and Inner Circle. And for Relic, we have no acces to Heavenfall blade. Foe-smiter, Shroud of heroes, Mace of redemtion, Lion's Roar and Eye of the unseen. Also, i just realise that Ezekiel have +1 to cast interromancy power but he don't know any... we have lost all our specific Psychic power. The way to think of it is that we're in the same situation as when 8th was released and all we had to go by was the Index. We had to wait for the Codex to be released to give us more Chapter-specific rules, and it's no different now at the start of 9th. This FAQ should essentially be seen as the Dark Angels section of the 8th edition Index. That said... We do have the Brilliant Strategist warlord trait in C:SM (which is ultra tier), and the Deathwing/Ravenwing traits in the FAQ. Enough flexibility there. No Interromancy discipline yet, but we do get the Librarius discipline to keep us going. I'd argue that Deathwing Assault has bee replaced by the improved Combined Assault stratagem, and Fortress of Shields and Stand Firm have both been replaced by the built-in Transhuman Physiology that all Inner Circle units get. Never Forgive, Never Forget has is equivalent in purpose to Death to the Traitors! in C:SM Hunt the Fallen and The Lion and the Wolf were more fluffy stratagems and not really missed, and we may get something similar in our supplement. WftDA, the Stoic Prosectuion LItany and some of the relics are definite losses for sure, fingers crossed our supplement will make up for it. In summary, we were never going to get a full-power, fully-featured set of rules from this FAQ - that will come in the supplement. But as an interim measure, some of the stuff we have has given me lots of hope for our supplement. WrathOfTheLion and Othniel's Blade 2 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaplain Lucifer Posted October 5, 2020 Share Posted October 5, 2020 So - my DW from 2014 seems to hot again. What goes around, comes around... For the Lion! Was it the infamous 3 land raider 3 DW squads plus characters list? Was one of my favorites! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Bahram Posted October 5, 2020 Share Posted October 5, 2020 (edited) So - my DW from 2014 seems to hot again. What goes around, comes around... For the Lion! Was it the infamous 3 land raider 3 DW squads plus characters list? Was one of my favorites!Yes!Even that we can’t assault from LRC’s - I’m tempted to field an army build like that Edited October 5, 2020 by Brother Bahram Chaplain Lucifer and Jings 2 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Interrogator Stobz Posted October 5, 2020 Share Posted October 5, 2020 I played that list several weeks ago against Eldar. I was very good then, even better now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UtariOnzo Posted October 5, 2020 Share Posted October 5, 2020 I am so glad I pre-ordered the primaris chaplain on bike. His keywords allow him to fire off the combined assault stratagem for our knights on his own, and he can give them extra charge range! Shame all our Codex strats and relics are gone for now (likely a bunch will be gone for good because of similarities with the new C:SM strats).GW giveth and GW taketh away Helias_Tancred 1 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WrathOfTheLion Posted October 5, 2020 Share Posted October 5, 2020 Have to build and paint that LRC I bought a few months ago now. Just about done with the first one I'm putting towards my Space Wolves, just in time! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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