1000pts Grey Knights - opinions please

[Reskin]

This is a list for a mini round robin tournament my gaming group is putting on.

Possible opponents will be:
Tau
Dark Eldar
Necrons
Space wolves
Deathwatch
Orcs
Tyranids
Chaos Marines

My list is as follows:

++ Battalion Detachment 0CP (Imperium - Grey Knights) [65 PL, 1,000pts, 6CP] ++

+ Configuration +

Battle Size [6CP]: 2. Incursion (51-100 Total PL / 501-1000 Points)

Detachment Bonuses: Show Bonuses

Detachment CP

Gametype: Matched

+ HQ +

Librarian [6 PL, 105pts]: Gate of Infinity, Sanctic Shard, Vortex of Doom
. Nemesis Warding Stave

Lord Kaldor Draigo [10 PL, 190pts]: Armoured Resilience, Ethereal Manipulation, Warlord

+ Troops +

Strike Squad [14 PL, 200pts]: Astral Aim
. 9x Grey Knight (Sword): 9x Nemesis Force Sword, 9x Storm Bolter
. Grey Knight Justicar: Storm bolter
. . Nemesis Force Sword

Strike Squad [14 PL, 140pts]
. 6x Grey Knight (Sword): 6x Nemesis Force Sword, 6x Storm Bolter
. Grey Knight Justicar: Storm bolter
. . Nemesis Force Sword

Strike Squad [7 PL, 100pts]
. 4x Grey Knight (Sword): 4x Nemesis Force Sword, 4x Storm Bolter
. Grey Knight Justicar: Storm bolter
. . Nemesis Force Sword

+ Elites +

Apothecary [5 PL, 80pts]: Empyrean Domination
. Nemesis Warding Stave

+ Heavy Support +

Nemesis Dreadknight [9 PL, 185pts]: Dreadfist, Gatling Psilencer, Heavy Psycannon, Nemesis Greatsword, Sanctuary

++ Total: [65 PL, 6CP, 1,000pts] ++

The choices were kinda dictated to what I had painted. I’m thinking I’ll need that bonus 10VP to have a chance.

This will be my 2nd game since 5th edition Gks.
My first was a practice last week against the tau player. Lost on VP at the end of turn 5.

He had 3 fire warriors left, I had Draigo and librarian untouched Edited October 5, 2020 by Reskin

[Skywrath]

Welcome to the Halls of Titan, Neophyte. Always nice to see more reinforcements in this dawn of a new age. Onto business..

 

What other units do you have so I can tailor a list for you?

 

That being said, there are a few things that you should consider with the current iteration:

 

1. Normal NDK's just aren't worth it. Either make him a GMNDK or take a Venerable Dreadnought with lascannon/missile launcher. If you choose him, ALWAYS give him Astral Aim.

2. You will feel the loss of Strikes very keenly. Make them a 10m squad for more board presence, and if points permit, arm two of them with psilencers. Arming them with psycannons is mostly pointless, because they are over-costed and do 1 damage each, unless in shooting tide. Not to mention popping psybolt ammunition for a squad armed with storm-bolters/psilencers is much more CP efficient, than having one squad with psycannons/stormbolters (as they are two different strategems). If you are new to Grey Knights, then one thing you should always remember is we are VERY CP hungry.

3. Apothecary - give him a hammer, or a spear. Also there are two variants of an apothecary, in a sense. Traditionally, one reinforces squads with healing, or one that just snipes something with the inner fire combo. Choose which one you would like, and we can go from there. 

4. Librarian - Make him the warlord for 3 abilities (warlord trait - Lore Master). Choose Empyrean Domination, Warp Shaping and either Armoured Resilience/Edict Imperator. I personally go for the first, as I find Edict has very niche uses, but your mileage may vary.

5. Psychic Powers - try to have at least two instances of Gate of Infinity/Vortex of Doom. Seeing how our smites are worthless, having a vortex is useful as an alternative for more mortal wounds. You could always combo it with Empyric Channeling for the 3D6 roll, (remember the +1 to psychic tests/deny) and hopefully you roll an 11 for the super vortex which does D6 damage. 

 

Look forward to hearing your response!

[Reskin]

Cheers for the reply.

 

Battalion detachment requires 3 troops. So 3 strike squads were all I had painted. (My termies aren’t yet)

 

Also, I felt like Draigo as my warlord gave me a more reliable defensive warlord. I didn’t want to cast sanc on the Libby till the NDK died.

 

Didn’t look at the venerable dreadnought to be honest. Since they cant take twin auto cannons, from 5th edition I kinda assumed they sucked. But it comes in at 155pts with the las and missile launcher as opposed to the 185 for the NDK and has a more reliable anti vehicle gun. So that was opened my eyes

 

Seeing as it’s 1000pt tourney I wanted to keep things as cheap as possible and I didn’t have the points to spare. I went for an extra body over hammers usually. That’s why I’ve kept the apothecary bare at 80pts as a support character for either Draigo, or the 10 man unit of strikes

 

With the changes to vehicles not getting -1 to shoot while moving isn’t the NDK atleast decent? He used to be super expansive when I used to play something like 275 pts fully kitted up. Coming in at 185 for a decent amount of firepower in combined with the stratagem buffing psi weapons?

 

With psychic powers, you can only cast one unique power once per turn, so multiple vortex’s or gates is irrelevant right? That’s why each unit has a different power assigned to them. Other then hammerhand for tactical flexibility.

Edited October 4, 2020 by Reskin

[Skywrath]

List n1: Generic Terminator list.

 

+++ New Roster (Warhammer 40,000 9th Edition) [56 PL, 6CP, 1,000pts] +++

++ Battalion Detachment 0CP (Imperium - Grey Knights) [56 PL, 6CP, 1,000pts] ++

+ Configuration [6CP] +

Battle Size [6CP]: 2. Incursion (51-100 Total PL / 501-1000 Points) [6CP]

Detachment CP

+ HQ [18 PL, 350pts] +

Grand Master Voldus [8 PL, 160pts]: Armoured Resilience, Empyrean Domination, Warp Shaping

Lord Kaldor Draigo [10 PL, 190pts]: Armoured Resilience, Warp Shaping

+ Troops [33 PL, 570pts] +

Terminator Squad [11 PL, 190pts]: Gate of Infinity
. Grey Knight Terminator Justicar [38pts]: Storm bolter [3pts]
. . Nemesis Force Sword
. 3x Terminator (Halberd) [114pts]: 3x Nemesis Force Halberd, 3x Storm Bolter [9pts]
. Terminator (Warding Stave) [38pts]: Storm Bolter [3pts]

Terminator Squad [11 PL, 190pts]: Gate of Infinity
. Grey Knight Terminator Justicar [38pts]: Storm bolter [3pts]
. . Nemesis Force Sword
. 3x Terminator (Halberd) [114pts]: 3x Nemesis Force Halberd, 3x Storm Bolter [9pts]
. Terminator (Warding Stave) [38pts]: Storm Bolter [3pts]

Terminator Squad [11 PL, 190pts]: Vortex of Doom
. Grey Knight Terminator Justicar [38pts]: Storm bolter [3pts]
. . Nemesis Force Sword
. 3x Terminator (Halberd) [114pts]: 3x Nemesis Force Halberd, 3x Storm Bolter [9pts]
. Terminator (Warding Stave) [38pts]: Storm Bolter [3pts]

+ Elites [5 PL, 80pts] +

Apothecary [5 PL, 80pts]: 6: Lore Master, Sanctuary, Soul Glaive, Vortex of Doom, Warlord
. Nemesis Force Halberd

 

Beauty of this list is that it has three beatsticks - Voldus, Kaldor, and the Apothecary with the Soul Glaive relic. Terminators hold points, and you can choose to reinforce either of them with one of the three beatsticks to clear the threat pretty quickly. Problem with this list is while it's quite good at killing MSU and PSU (on teh account of halberds as the weapon), it doesn't have much in terms of killing vehicles. If Kaldor/Voldus can come close to the vehicle they should be able to smash it into your next game, but yeah. Next variant!

 

Big and Mean

+++ New Roster (Warhammer 40,000 9th Edition) [61 PL, 6CP, 1,000pts] +++

++ Battalion Detachment 0CP (Imperium - Grey Knights) [61 PL, 6CP, 1,000pts] ++

+ Configuration [6CP] +

Battle Size [6CP]: 2. Incursion (51-100 Total PL / 501-1000 Points) [6CP]

Detachment CP

+ HQ [17 PL, 350pts] +

Grand Master in Nemesis Dreadknight [11 PL, 245pts]: Dreadfist, Dreadknight teleporter [10pts], Gatling Psilencer [20pts], Heavy Psycannon [25pts], Nemesis Greatsword [10pts], Sanctuary

Librarian [6 PL, 105pts]: 6: Lore Master, Armoured Resilience, Crux Terminatus, Empyrean Domination, Frag & Krak grenades, Psyk-out Grenade, Warlord, Warp Shaping
. Nemesis Warding Stave: Nemesis Warding Stave

+ Troops [39 PL, 570pts] +

Strike Squad [14 PL, 180pts]: Frag & Krak grenades, Psyk-out Grenade, Vortex of Doom
. 8x Grey Knight (Sword) [160pts]: 8x Nemesis Force Sword, 8x Storm Bolter [24pts]
. Grey Knight Justicar [20pts]: Storm bolter [3pts]
. . Nemesis Force Sword: Nemesis Force Sword

Strike Squad [14 PL, 200pts]: Frag & Krak grenades, Gate of Infinity, Psyk-out Grenade
. 9x Grey Knight (Sword) [180pts]: 9x Nemesis Force Sword, 9x Storm Bolter [27pts]
. Grey Knight Justicar [20pts]: Storm bolter [3pts]
. . Nemesis Force Sword: Nemesis Force Sword

Terminator Squad [11 PL, 190pts]: Frag & Krak grenades, Gate of Infinity, Psyk-out Grenade
. Grey Knight Terminator Justicar [38pts]: Storm bolter [3pts]
. . Nemesis Force Sword: Nemesis Force Sword
. 4x Terminator (Sword) [152pts]: 4x Nemesis Force Sword, 4x Storm Bolter [12pts]

+ Elites [5 PL, 80pts] +

Apothecary [5 PL, 80pts]: Frag & Krak grenades, Psyk-out Grenade, Sanctuary, Soul Glaive
. Nemesis Force Halberd: Nemesis Force Halberd

 

Similar idea what I proposed earlier - One 9m strike squad, one 10m one, a terminator squad, a GMNDK, a Librarian (for casts), and an Apothecary that still makes a respectable beatstick. Beauty of this list is that the GMNDK is going to be hitting on 2's, compared to the NDK's 3's, and is far more durable (with sanctuary, giving him a 3+ invuln!). He's also armed with the psycannon/psilencers so you should have no problem knocking people off the board. He also has the teleporter, if you do decide to put him in the Teleportarium (which I would advise if the opponent brings things like repulsor executioners). Etc. So you have more board presence, but enough of a hidden punch to keep scoring points, while your GMNDK+Apothecary take care of any threats. Last variant of this list.

 

Mechanical Variation

+++ New Roster (Warhammer 40,000 9th Edition) [60 PL, 6CP, 1,000pts] +++

++ Battalion Detachment 0CP (Imperium - Grey Knights) [60 PL, 6CP, 1,000pts] ++

+ Configuration [6CP] +

Battle Size [6CP]: 2. Incursion (51-100 Total PL / 501-1000 Points) [6CP]

Detachment CP

+ HQ [11 PL, 180pts] +

Librarian [6 PL, 105pts]: 6: Lore Master, Armoured Resilience, Crux Terminatus, Empyrean Domination, Frag & Krak grenades, Psyk-out Grenade, Warlord, Warp Shaping
. Nemesis Warding Stave: Nemesis Warding Stave

Techmarine [5 PL, 75pts]: Aetheric Conduit, Boltgun, Frag & Krak grenades, Power axe [5pts], Psyk-out Grenade, Warp Shaping
. Servo Arms [10pts]: Flamer [5pts], Plasma cutter [5pts], 2x Servo-arm

+ Troops [21 PL, 300pts] +

Strike Squad [7 PL, 100pts]: Frag & Krak grenades, Gate of Infinity, Psyk-out Grenade
. 4x Grey Knight (Sword) [80pts]: 4x Nemesis Force Sword, 4x Storm Bolter [12pts]
. Grey Knight Justicar [20pts]: Storm bolter [3pts]
. . Nemesis Force Sword: Nemesis Force Sword

Strike Squad [7 PL, 100pts]: Frag & Krak grenades, Gate of Infinity, Psyk-out Grenade
. 4x Grey Knight (Sword) [80pts]: 4x Nemesis Force Sword, 4x Storm Bolter [12pts]
. Grey Knight Justicar [20pts]: Storm bolter [3pts]
. . Nemesis Force Sword: Nemesis Force Sword

Strike Squad [7 PL, 100pts]: Frag & Krak grenades, Psyk-out Grenade, Vortex of Doom
. 4x Grey Knight (Sword) [80pts]: 4x Nemesis Force Sword, 4x Storm Bolter [12pts]
. Grey Knight Justicar [20pts]: Storm bolter [3pts]
. . Nemesis Force Sword: Nemesis Force Sword

+ Elites [13 PL, 235pts] +

Apothecary [5 PL, 80pts]: Frag & Krak grenades, Psyk-out Grenade, Sanctuary
. Nemesis Force Halberd: Nemesis Force Halberd

Venerable Dreadnought [8 PL, 155pts]: Astral Aim, Missile launcher [20pts], Twin lascannon [40pts]

+ Heavy Support [15 PL, 285pts] +

Land Raider [15 PL, 285pts]: Twin Heavy Bolter [30pts], 2x Twin Lascannon [80pts]

 

By far the more interesting list. This list trades defense for a whole bunch of offence and has the added benefit of being more fluffy. So Strikes score points, Dreadnought+Landraider+Techmarine stay in a castle, apothecary reinforces the strike squad. I gave the techmarine the aetheric conduit relic (that heals a vehicle for 2d3 instead of d3) and he's your backup caster in case you need the tide changed. Everything else is stock standard. Some tips for this variant - give the Land Raider AA, and watch the opponent cry when he has 4 lascannon shots coming out from obscuring terrain. Or you could use the Land Raider to protect your strikes. Load two squads up, transport them, pop launchers, give the LR Sanctuary (with the apothecary) and just become an unmovable brick on the point, while the strikes vortex the opponent away. If the game demands it, you can always change the Land Raider to a Redeemer for some juicy overwatch shenanigans (remember, flamers auto-hit on overwatch!), for the same points cost. 

 

As for your questions. 

 

I made all these lists battalions just for the sake of simplicity. I could come up with variants in terms of having many detachments, but eh. All these lists are nice because they don't need that much CP to sustain your onslaught. Of course, I wouldn't recommend playing GK at 1000 points (they need the 12 to survive), but all these lists should hold their own pretty well. If any of these lists you aren't a fan of, just yell at me, and I can come up with a few others for your liking. However, I still need a more comprehensive picture on what units you have available to do so.

 

Draigo has to have Demon Slayer as his warlord trait. Unless you are fighting demons like 3/5 times in the local tournament (??) then give someone else the warlord trait as the lists shown. 

 

Venerable Dreadnought is better than the NDK and on par with the GMNDK. Problem is, if you don't have any threats on the board (e.g. the land raider in the last list) then the opponent just hard focuses whatever is big and scary. All these lists have other threats to consider, if the opponent is wise enough to realise them. The Venerable Dreadnought is better than the NDK, because of the damage profile, and he's small enough to hide in ruins or behind obscuring terrain while being a versatile sniper with Astral Aim. Not to mention you have the equal of 3 lascannon shots (well technically 2 lascannon and one krak missile) heading the opponents way for a maximum of 18 damage. That's a threat not only is hard to remove, but hard to deal with on the first two turns. The GMNDK is sturdy enough (with Sanctuary or Heed the Prognosticars ((3+ invuln strat))) to hold board presence, as well as being killy in melee. The NDK just doesn't compare with a 5+ invuln, as well as not having the character keyword. If he did, then maybe, but otherwise, no. 

 

With psychic powers, yes, you can only cast a single instance of that power per turn, excluding smite. The reason I have two of each casts, is that 9th's meta is holding points rather than 8th's going out and smashing the opponent's face in. So let's say a terminator squad with gate of infnity dies. You have another unit that can cast it, so you can hold the point. Similar reasoning to vortex, but in a more offensive capacity. So instead of " oh, I'm going to reinforce this point with terminators", it's more, "oh, I'm just going to vortex you off that point". Now try applying that logic to other powers, and then you should have a pretty good idea what powers are good, which ones aren't. 

 

 

 

Edited October 5, 2020 by Skywrath

[Reskin]

Food for thought, cheers dude for the helpful lists.

 

The mini tourney was held today, on my public holiday and surprisingly here's how it played out.

 

The indomitable, holy ordos, chosen of the God Emperor, actually placed 1st, by total points over 3 rounds. With a record of 2 wins, 1 loss 79, 49, 94.

 

1st opponent was creations of bile, with khorne bersekers and oblitorators W (79/100)

 

2nd opponent was Imperial Knights house Hawkshroud, (now labelled Traitoris Hereticus) L (49/100)

 

3rd opponent was Orcs. W (94/100)

 

Didn't expect to win, tbh. Didn't expect to vs knights. After round 1, the opponent were determined by VP. So obviously I had to vs the Imperial Knights, the list was 4 models, 1 large Knight and 3 of the smaller things. I did a total of 49 wounds, Killed 2 of the 3 smaller 12 would models and 23/24 wounds onto the Large Knight and turn 5 ended with him ahead on VP

 

Round 3, I needed the Tau player to stomp the Imperial Knights for me to have a chance at Victory and boy did those xenos come through for me. He kept the Imperial Knights from score very many VP and I had a huge win against the Orks, tabling him turn 4.

 

 

The sweet moment was D6 wounds onto 3 units turn 1, including his warlord, doing 6 wounds to his warlord, from a powered up vortex of doom. And then smiting him for a turn one psychic phase.

 

 

Edited October 5, 2020 by Reskin