427 replies to this topic

[Dark Shepherd]

Wolf priest healing now costs 1 command point each time we want to heal something.....

And thus can only be used once per turn, so that really hurts taking more than 1 Priest.

Saga of the Wulfkin is +d3 attacks instead of +1 so its on average the same as it was, just with a crummier aura, albeit one that is much easier to activate

[Castle Wolfenstein]

-Sagas are still a thing, but the aura isn't always the same as the base warlord trait. You can give a second character a warlord trait and a saga, but only one other character. In big games, you'll need to settle for just the trait on the 3rd+ character
 

 

Are you talking about the warrior of legend stratagem? I read that as a way to give your warlord 2 warlord traits and the associated sagas (should he meet the criteria to activate the saga). After that you can use hero of the chapter to give additional character(s) warlord traits. I don't see anything disallowing the additional characters with warlord traits from achieving the saga and gaining the associated effect. Or am I way off base here?

[Squark]

 

-Sagas are still a thing, but the aura isn't always the same as the base warlord trait. You can give a second character a warlord trait and a saga, but only one other character. In big games, you'll need to settle for just the trait on the 3rd+ character
 

 

Are you talking about the warrior of legend stratagem? I read that as a way to give your warlord 2 warlord traits and the associated sagas (should he meet the criteria to activate the saga). After that you can use hero of the chapter to give additional character(s) warlord traits. I don't see anything disallowing the additional characters with warlord traits from achieving the saga and gaining the associated effect. Or am I way off base here?

 

Huh.

 

I'm still not 100% certain heroes of the chapter gain sagas (Expect the worst, hope for the best, and all that), but you are correct, this lets you double up on Warlord traits (and sagas).

Edited by Squark, 27 October 2020 - 06:33 PM.

[TiguriusX]

We are a supplement not a stand alone codex.

In the past that meant we got both the vanilla marine stratagems and our extra ones.

I have a white scars codex and it is basically the same approach.


The vanilla marine stratagems give us access to extra WL traits/relics

This new SW stratagem let's us give two WL traits to our warlord.

It is awesome and powerful.

Enjoy it

Edited by TiguriusX, 27 October 2020 - 06:38 PM.

[Squark]

We are a supplement not a stand alone codex.

In the past that meant we got both the vanilla marine stratagems and our extra ones.

I have a white scars codex and it is basically the same approach.


The vanilla marine stratagems give us access to extra WL traits/relics

This new SW stratagem let's us give two WL traits to our warlord.

It is awesome and powerful.

Enjoy it

Yeah, my original confusion about it was the result of me not believing dual warlord traits would ever be a thing.

 

 

I'm still a little uncertain whether or not the codex's Heroes of the Chapter stratagem gives non-warlords access to the saga associated with their warlord trait, but that's a seperate issue (Specifically, Warrior of Legend needing to state that the Warlord gets access to both sagas suggests the supplement will need to add additional language to ensure Heroes of the Chapter lets non-warlords fulfill sagas).

[Bulwyf]

Very disappointed by what I see so far.

 

Sagas, a terrible system that never worked in 8th, return again just to make your actual warlord traits terrible because for "balance" they have to be weak sauce because you can give it to other units.

 

Wolf Priests who have always been half Chaplain, half Apothecary now have to use CP to heal which means you have to spend CP AND it can only be used once per turn by one priest. It goes against the fluff and makes a questionable use unit even more mediocre. We are now the ONLY CHAPTER that has to spend CP to heal units. Unreal.

 

Frost Weapons our unique weapons you could fit into a squad? Yeah, not anymore. It is now a chapter relic so you get to use it once per game maybe two if you spend CP for it.  So if you modelled several units in a squad with one or just have a lost of frost weapons in your army...good luck! I guess  you have to break arms off now? 

 

Terrible rules so far. And remember this is the preview that's supposed to get you EXCITED about the changes coming. LOL!

[Squark]

Very disappointed by what I see so far.

Sagas, a terrible system that never worked in 8th, return again just to make your actual warlord traits terrible because for "balance" they have to be weak sauce because you can give it to other units.

Wolf Priests who have always been half Chaplain, half Apothecary now have to use CP to heal which means you have to spend CP AND it can only be used once per turn by one priest. It goes against the fluff and makes a questionable use unit even more mediocre. We are now the ONLY CHAPTER that has to spend CP to heal units. Unreal.

Frost Weapons our unique weapons you could fit into a squad? Yeah, not anymore. It is now a chapter relic so you get to use it once per game maybe two if you spend CP for it. So if you modelled several units in a squad with one or just have a lost of frost weapons in your army...good luck! I guess you have to break arms off now?

Terrible rules so far. And remember this is the preview that's supposed to get you EXCITED about the changes coming. LOL!

1) I reserve judgement until I see what the new warlord traits and sagas are. Making them two separate effects hopefully makes balancing them easier.

2) The alternative is paying points for it. And healing is kind of janky. I'd rather not pay for it in points, personally. I'd much rather have my Wolf Priests inspiring the youngins by smashing face, personally.

3) This is disappointing, certainly, although the writing was kind of on the wall. At the very least, the addition of +1 wound makes them suitably badass. As for existing models, power weapons have a blue-ish glow when active anyway, so no change is needed.

I guess I've always been cautiously optimistic. I'm expecting to gain and lose things, and that's what seems to be happening. What remains to be seen is which side of the scale will weight out.

Edited by Squark, 27 October 2020 - 08:19 PM.

[Dark Shepherd]

It came up in the Auspex Tactics review of the preview but R.A.W we can take Primaris Apothecaries, though they may be specifically excluded in our supplement (or successor only) or may be FAQd to actually get the Apothecary keyword so it probably wont last long

Would love if Wolf Priests got combat revival strat, would be awesome on TWC, doubt itll happen though

Edited by Dark Shepherd, 27 October 2020 - 08:29 PM.

[PeteySödes]

=][=  I'm only going to do this once more. We're not here to single anyone out. If your post has nothing to add but to do so, I suggest you leave it unsaid.  =][=

[StrangerOrders]

 

Very disappointed by what I see so far.

Sagas, a terrible system that never worked in 8th, return again just to make your actual warlord traits terrible because for "balance" they have to be weak sauce because you can give it to other units.

Wolf Priests who have always been half Chaplain, half Apothecary now have to use CP to heal which means you have to spend CP AND it can only be used once per turn by one priest. It goes against the fluff and makes a questionable use unit even more mediocre. We are now the ONLY CHAPTER that has to spend CP to heal units. Unreal.

Frost Weapons our unique weapons you could fit into a squad? Yeah, not anymore. It is now a chapter relic so you get to use it once per game maybe two if you spend CP for it. So if you modelled several units in a squad with one or just have a lost of frost weapons in your army...good luck! I guess you have to break arms off now?

Terrible rules so far. And remember this is the preview that's supposed to get you EXCITED about the changes coming. LOL!

1) I reserve judgement until I see what the new warlord traits and sagas are. Making them two separate effects hopefully makes balancing them easier.

2) The alternative is paying points for it. And healing is kind of janky. I'd rather not pay for it in points, personally. I'd much rather have my Wolf Priests inspiring the youngins by smashing face, personally.

3) This is disappointing, certainly, although the writing was kind of on the wall. At the very least, the addition of +1 wound makes them suitably badass. As for existing models, power weapons have a blue-ish glow when active anyway, so no change is needed.

I guess I've always been cautiously optimistic. I'm expecting to gain and lose things, and that's what seems to be happening. What remains to be seen is which side of the scale will weight out.

 

I believe their concern is because Frost Blades have always had the distinct quirk of being able to take the form of blue-toothed chainswords, which now technically doesnt work.

 

Granted, you would have to be a raging unpleasant person to say they do not count and I suggest not playing with such people.

 

On the whole though, I am okay enough with these rules and pleased that Frost Weapons still exist after a fashion.

 

That really should be a key emphasis as far as this preview and the errata I feel, I feel like the flavor is being kept on the right track. 

 

I am not sure on the Black Death though, its nice and all but it feels a smidgen unreliable. A black-bladed axe does sound cool though, I cant recall why I have never wanted to paint one though...

Edited by StrangerOrders, 27 October 2020 - 09:23 PM.

[Wispy]

=][=  I'm only going to do this once more. We're not here to single anyone out. If your post has nothing to add but to do so, I suggest you leave it unsaid.  =][=

sorry, was poking fun and stirring :cuss. didn't mean any malice by it.

[L30n1d4s]

So far, the actual WLT is not terrible, regardless of the Saga portion:

-Always count as if you have charged for the purpose of Shock Assault

and

-Get +D3 attacks instead of +1 for Shock Assault


So, averaging +2A every round of combat is pretty solid, especially when you throw in the Imperoum Sword WL Trait and combine with something like Teeth of Terra (another 3A, so between 9-11A at S6 AP-2 Dmg2), pair of Frost Claws (another 2A, so between 8-10 attacks at S6 AP-2 Dmg2, reroll all wounds), or even just a good old TH (6-8 x S9 AP-2 Dmg3 attacks, all swinging at WS2+).

[Dark Shepherd]

So far, the actual WLT is not terrible, regardless of the Saga portion:

-Always count as if you have charged for the purpose of Shock Assault

and

-Get +D3 attacks instead of +1 for Shock Assault


So, averaging +2A every round of combat is pretty solid, especially when you throw in the Imperoum Sword WL Trait and combine with something like Teeth of Terra (another 3A, so between 9-11A at S6 AP-2 Dmg2), pair of Frost Claws (another 2A, so between 8-10 attacks at S6 AP-2 Dmg2, reroll all wounds), or even just a good old TH (6-8 x S9 AP-2 Dmg3 attacks, all swinging at WS2+).

Whats going to survive a round of combat with a Wolf Lord though and then not fallback? Very situational IMO

On relics...my guess is we'll be limited to a set of our own and lose access to the generic ones, we'll find out Saturday

Do agree though frost claws plus warlord trait plus touch of the wild plus thunderwolf and thats a LOT of attacks

[Squark]

On relics...my guess is we'll be limited to a set of our own and lose access to the generic ones, we'll find out Saturday

That would be unprecedented for a supplemen if I recall correctly.

[Dark Shepherd]

On relics...my guess is we'll be limited to a set of our own and lose access to the generic ones, we'll find out Saturday

That would be unprecedented for a supplemen if I recall correctly.

How many unique relics did the supplements grant last time out do you know?

My logic is if we keep most or all of the 12 from SOTB that made it to the index, most or all of the 6 from our last codex but reworked AND THEN the 15 from the codex that is a crazy amount

Or doomsday scenario of we lose a big chunk of our unique relics which will suck as most of Marine Codex relics arent good

[Bulwyf]

 

On relics...my guess is we'll be limited to a set of our own and lose access to the generic ones, we'll find out Saturday

That would be unprecedented for a supplemen if I recall correctly.

 

 

It was unprecedented for Wolf Priests to not be able to heal until 9th edition. I put nothing past GW at this point.

[Bryan Blaire]

It'd just be nice for Wolf Lords to be able to take a power axe...

[Squark]

On relics...my guess is we'll be limited to a set of our own and lose access to the generic ones, we'll find out Saturday

That would be unprecedented for a supplemen if I recall correctly.

It was unprecedented for Wolf Priests to not be able to heal until 9th edition. I put nothing past GW at this point.

Really? Well now I feel old, because it's very much precedented.

[Karhedron]

It came up in the Auspex Tactics review of the preview but R.A.W we can take Primaris Apothecaries, though they may be specifically excluded in our supplement (or successor only) or may be FAQd to actually get the Apothecary keyword so it probably wont last long

That would take the sting out of it a little. I don't mind the Wolf Priest being an inferior healer but apothecaries finally look worth taking in 9th and it would suck to have not access at all to that capability. Fingers crossed we can take Primaris Apothecaries.

[Jorin Helm-splitter]

Yeah to my knowledge no chapter lost access to any relics (templars technically couldn't take a librarian only item).

I added up the relics + special issue wargear in the scar supplement they had 15 total, and the ravenguard supplement who have 14. Wolves have 18 between Saga of the Beast and our old codex. It wouldn't shock me if we dropped to 14-15 but I really doubt we would we won't have access to the marine book relics.

[Triszin]

someone said this, I forget who, but I agree with them.

 

The Hounds of Morkai are just OK.

 

But, if we get the option to turn our Reiver Battle leader into a Morkai battle leader?

 

NOW you have my attention

[Bulwyf]

So at the risk of sounding "negative" I have to point out in the community article that GW went exactly the route I predicted: the reason we now have SW Successor chapters? Why that nutty Do It All Cawl pulled another rabbit out of his hat. Is there anything this guy can't do?

[WrathOfTheLion]

The previous fluff on successors was stupid as hell. If they just cleanly say, 'and here they are' to end its nonsense, that's totally fine with me.

[Wispy]

 

 

On relics...my guess is we'll be limited to a set of our own and lose access to the generic ones, we'll find out Saturday

That would be unprecedented for a supplemen if I recall correctly.

 

 

It was unprecedented for Wolf Priests to not be able to heal until 9th edition. I put nothing past GW at this point.

 

but they couldn't heal in 5th edition, so not so unprecedented.

 

and they do still heal. it's a different mechanic but they do.

i know you're upset, but as much as we always want free stuff and never want to be rebalanced, game design is always about the sum of its parts, not individual pieces in a vacuum. this isn't a negotiation, either - it's a new book for a new edition and it's going to be a different beast 

Edited by Wispy, 28 October 2020 - 01:50 AM.

[Wispy]

So at the risk of sounding "negative" I have to point out in the community article that GW went exactly the route I predicted: the reason we now have SW Successor chapters? Why that nutty Do It All Cawl pulled another rabbit out of his hat. Is there anything this guy can't do?

 

the wolf spear has been around since guy haley's dark imperium novel. it's hard to argue it hasn't been well foreshadowed - it didn't suddenly come from nowhere and we've been anticipating it for a long time. 

 

i'm not trying to pick on you, but man, i just... i dunno. i know you're mad, but work with me here.