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Codex: Space Wolves Errata and Preview


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#326
Dark Shepherd

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Yeah to my knowledge no chapter lost access to any relics (templars technically couldn't take a librarian only item).

I added up the relics + special issue wargear in the scar supplement they had 15 total, and the ravenguard supplement who have 14. Wolves have 18 between Saga of the Beast and our old codex. It wouldn't shock me if we dropped to 14-15 but I really doubt we would we won't have access to the marine book relics.

I wont complain if we have more relics to choose from! A fair few of the generic marine ones seem to replicate our warlord traits...speaking of did the previous first founding supplements still allow access to the generic marine traits?

And/or could it be the case that the Successor Wolves chapters get the generic traits or relics but Parent Chapter doesnt?
Yeah you could take all the relics and warlord traits from the base book.

Interesting...thanks

I still suspect we will lose the warlord traits (except for successors), because of the saga systen they love

Relics opens up more posibilites though

#327
Knightsword

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I hope we keep access to the main codex traits. The idea that I can take a Gravis Wolf Lord, give it the Chapter Master upgrade for the armour relic, and then give him Iron Resolve and Wolfkin to produce a model with T6, 9 wounds, 6 to 8 power fist attacks and 2+/4++/6+++ is just amusing. Imagine might of heroes on top of that. Only downside is the slow movement and needing a Repulsor to taxi him.



#328
Ragnar69

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The strat to get the second warlord trait specifically mentions that this must be a SW one. They wouldn't need t o write this if we didn't have access to others.


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#329
Karhedron

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I hope we keep access to the main codex traits. The idea that I can take a Gravis Wolf Lord, give it the Chapter Master upgrade for the armour relic, and then give him Iron Resolve and Wolfkin to produce a model with T6, 9 wounds, 6 to 8 power fist attacks and 2+/4++/6+++ is just amusing. Imagine might of heroes on top of that. Only downside is the slow movement and needing a Repulsor to taxi him.


Better still, put it on a TWolf Lord with Storm Shield. Then you have a 1+/4++/6+++ save and he has a healthy 10" movement as well meaning maneuverability is not a problem.
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Sanguinius stood up, stretching his wings to their full extent. He flexed his hands. "I need no blade".
It was as though Sanguinius gleamed with pale light, his face white, eyes becoming blood-red, surrounded by the golden crown of flowing hair. Guilliman had witnessed glimpses of of his brother's wrath before, but had never seen the true Blood Angel unleashed. Sanguinius surged forward on alabaster wings, half a meter from the floor, whiteness streaming from him like flames.

#330
Triszin

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https://preview.redd...c1880a122dc4188

Edited by Triszin, 28 October 2020 - 04:11 PM.

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banana

#331
WrathOfTheLion

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I didn't know that, thanks

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Spoiler

Edited by WrathOfTheLion, 28 October 2020 - 04:35 PM.

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#332
Bulwyf

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And to address someone's point above about using frost axes in your army as "blue power axes" that's only fine for those people who don't care about WYSIWYG. I personally do not care about WYSIWYG but that's my personal opinion. There's many people that DO care about that and more crucially you may run into a gamer that won't let you use those frost axe models because those aren't actually power axes those are frost axes.


WHSIWYG is no longer part of the rules and hasn't been for a couple of editions so that is not much of an argument.

Secondly, you are absolutely entitled to use them as blue power weapons because there is now literally no such thing as a frost weapon in the wargear list. They can't not be power axes. Icy blue is now just an aesthetic choice rather than a separate weapon.

 

 

You completely ignored my other points about WYSIWYG. For those who care about hobby side, running around with models using incorrect weapons is an issue.  

 

I also don't know if you have ever been to a tournament but every single one I've been to or heard of strictly applies WYSIWYG for models. Those frost weapons don't just magically become power axes because you want them to be. They are still frost weapons since the power weapon has it own model. 

 

If you ignore the tournaments there are still plenty of players in casual games that will only play by WYSIWYG. You can shrug these things off if they don't apply to you but let's don't ignore this for those people it does impact.


Edited by Bulwyf, 28 October 2020 - 05:14 PM.

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#333
Fang_Guard23

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"The was only one Wolf King, there cannot be another."

"lol, then take another title, think of something new"

 

I think with all the abilities that the wolves and space marine codex have at their disposal  I wouldn't have too much of a problem with the Hounds.



#334
Karhedron

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Those frost weapons don't just magically become power axes because you want them to be. They are still frost weapons since the power weapon has it own model.

 

Actually, that's exactly what happens since there is now no such thing as a Frost Weapon in our wargear lists. Those are weapons ARE now variant patterns of power sword and power axe. If anyone quibbles with that, ask them to show you the entry for a Frost Sword or a Frost Axe in our wargear list.


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Sanguinius stood up, stretching his wings to their full extent. He flexed his hands. "I need no blade".
It was as though Sanguinius gleamed with pale light, his face white, eyes becoming blood-red, surrounded by the golden crown of flowing hair. Guilliman had witnessed glimpses of of his brother's wrath before, but had never seen the true Blood Angel unleashed. Sanguinius surged forward on alabaster wings, half a meter from the floor, whiteness streaming from him like flames.

#335
Bulwyf

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Those frost weapons don't just magically become power axes because you want them to be. They are still frost weapons since the power weapon has it own model.

 

Actually, that's exactly what happens since there is now no such thing as a Frost Weapon in our wargear lists. Those are weapons ARE now variant patterns of power sword and power axe. If anyone quibbles with that, ask them to show you the entry for a Frost Sword or a Frost Axe in our wargear list.

 

 

I know at least two tourney organizers that would post a picture of a frost weapon and a power weapon and tell you to switch to a power weapon on the model since it has its own model. The frost weapon option has been in SW gear for many years now. GW changed the rules for them just now. They would expect you to break arms off your models and replace them.

 

Again, I don't have a problem with this since I ignore WYSIWYG and show my opponent my list so they can see what gear each unit has so there is no sneaky sneaky stuff. There are players who don't have that option. I have some opponents that refused to play me because of WYSIWYG even with the gear pointed out correctly in a list. That's not even getting into tournaments where they demand WYSIWYG on every model. As I explained above I'm pretty sure where at least some of them are going to rule when it comes to SW and frost weapons. I hope I'm wrong.


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#336
VIth

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“I know at least two tourney organizers that would post a picture of a frost weapon and a power weapon and tell you to switch to a power weapon on the model since it has its own model.”

Who? What tournaments?
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#337
Gherrick

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I'm curious how the ruling would go for those that use third party bits. It seems like those models would not be allowed then. I guess I'm glad I don't play tourneys, because I would often play with folks that would use "counts as" models, if for no other reason they couldn't often afford to keep buying new models each edition when certain wargear and/or units changed drastically. I have plenty of bikes, for example, I fully intend to "count as" outriders for now, probably rebasing them at some point. They used to be WG on bikes, but ever since they got nixed, they've been gathering dust. I'm not going to fork over more money to GW to get new models, when I have fully functional ones already.


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#338
Rune Priest Jbickb

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[quote name="Bulwyf" post="5624068" timestamp="1603905614"]

[quote name="Karhedron" post="5624052" timestamp="1603904014"]

[quote name="Bulwyf" post="5624038" timestamp="1603902786"]
I know at least two tourney organizers that would post a picture of a frost weapon and a power weapon and tell you to switch to a power weapon on the model since it has its own model. The frost weapon option has been in SW gear for many years now. GW changed the rules for them just now. They would expect you to break arms off your models and replace them.
[/quote]

To be fair citing how things were ruled in a different ruleset does not say how it would be ruled in the current rules. A more accurate comparison would be if those TOs ruled you had to model master crafted weapons from the 8e space marine codex as that's much closer what we have now.
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#339
TiguriusX

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So both casuals and super strict anal TOs are going to care what color/shade your close combat weapon is?

That sounds like a bad hobby scene...not a GW issue
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A digital space wolf returning to the pack and emerging from the warp on the TT to try the hobby side.  I started with Vassal40K and currently enjoy TTS40K

 

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#340
TheUnlikelyGamer84

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Those frost weapons don't just magically become power axes because you want them to be. They are still frost weapons since the power weapon has it own model.

Actually, that's exactly what happens since there is now no such thing as a Frost Weapon in our wargear lists. Those are weapons ARE now variant patterns of power sword and power axe. If anyone quibbles with that, ask them to show you the entry for a Frost Sword or a Frost Axe in our wargear list.
I know at least two tourney organizers that would post a picture of a frost weapon and a power weapon and tell you to switch to a power weapon on the model since it has its own model. The frost weapon option has been in SW gear for many years now. GW changed the rules for them just now. They would expect you to break arms off your models and replace them.

Again, I don't have a problem with this since I ignore WYSIWYG and show my opponent my list so they can see what gear each unit has so there is no sneaky sneaky stuff. There are players who don't have that option. I have some opponents that refused to play me because of WYSIWYG even with the gear pointed out correctly in a list. That's not even getting into tournaments where they demand WYSIWYG on every model. As I explained above I'm pretty sure where at least some of them are going to rule when it comes to SW and frost weapons. I hope I'm wrong.
I have played many tournaments here in Florida and I can tell you that 99% of players wouldn’t know or care about the difference between a frost weapon or power weapon. In fact most people I’ve talked to over the years couldn’t possibly hope to know what everyone else’s weapons are for “x” faction unless they own the same army. I know I can only speak for myself with certainty. However I was the only Space wolf player from the last 4 FLGS I’ve played consistently at since 7th Ed. TBH the only Frost weapons I can think of that don’t look like power swords or axes are the wulfen ones that actually look like ice on their edge. The rune covered sword from the grey hunter box looks like a power sword. The two handed frost axe looks Power axe as well with runes on it.

Edited by TheUnlikelyGamer84, 28 October 2020 - 06:15 PM.

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#341
Rune Priest Jbickb

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Those frost weapons don't just magically become power axes because you want them to be. They are still frost weapons since the power weapon has it own model.

Actually, that's exactly what happens since there is now no such thing as a Frost Weapon in our wargear lists. Those are weapons ARE now variant patterns of power sword and power axe. If anyone quibbles with that, ask them to show you the entry for a Frost Sword or a Frost Axe in our wargear list.
I know at least two tourney organizers that would post a picture of a frost weapon and a power weapon and tell you to switch to a power weapon on the model since it has its own model. The frost weapon option has been in SW gear for many years now. GW changed the rules for them just now. They would expect you to break arms off your models and replace them.

Again, I don't have a problem with this since I ignore WYSIWYG and show my opponent my list so they can see what gear each unit has so there is no sneaky sneaky stuff. There are players who don't have that option. I have some opponents that refused to play me because of WYSIWYG even with the gear pointed out correctly in a list. That's not even getting into tournaments where they demand WYSIWYG on every model. As I explained above I'm pretty sure where at least some of them are going to rule when it comes to SW and frost weapons. I hope I'm wrong.
I have played many tournaments here in Florida and I can tell you that 99% of players wouldn’t know or care about the difference between a frost weapon or power weapon. In fact most people I’ve talked to over the years couldn’t possibly hope to know what everyone else’s weapons are for “x” faction unless they own the same army. I know I can only speak for myself with certainty. However I was the only Space wolf player from the last 4 FLGS I’ve played consistently at since 7th Ed. TBH the only Frost weapons I can think of that don’t look like power swords or axes are the wulfen ones that actually look like ice on their edge. The rune covered sword from the grey hunter box looks like a power sword. The two handed frost axe looks Power axe as well with runes on it.

The only one I can think of was an axe off an older upgrade sprue that was definitely frost (icy edged).
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#342
Castle Wolfenstein

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I have played many tournaments here in Florida and I can tell you that 99% of players wouldn’t know or care about the difference between a frost weapon or power weapon. In fact most people I’ve talked to over the years couldn’t possibly hope to know what everyone else’s weapons are for “x” faction unless they own the same army. I know I can only speak for myself with certainty. However I was the only Space wolf player from the last 4 FLGS I’ve played consistently at since 7th Ed. TBH the only Frost weapons I can think of that don’t look like power swords or axes are the wulfen ones that actually look like ice on their edge. The rune covered sword from the grey hunter box looks like a power sword. The two handed frost axe looks Power axe as well with runes on it.

The only one I can think of was an axe off an older upgrade sprue that was definitely frost (icy edged).

 

 

Space Wolf Ven Dread axe has an icy looking edge. Props to anyone who managed to use that as a conversion bit for their Thunderwolf cavalry.

 

I guess I dont see what all the fuss is aboot. I always thought that frost weapons used the same modes as power swords/axes, just painted all frosty. Of course I have only been playing since 2018, and not at all in tournaments, so maybe I'm dumb.


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#343
Bulwyf

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“I know at least two tourney organizers that would post a picture of a frost weapon and a power weapon and tell you to switch to a power weapon on the model since it has its own model.”

Who? What tournaments?

 

Our local store had one where the guy went bonkers on me for having frost weapons on TWC that I was counting as TH with the opponents okaying it and it was correctly pointed on the list but he wouldn't let it go. Told me to break arms off or not use them and I was like well I guess I'm out of the tourney. The other one is from a large city that had the same mentality when I brought this exact situation up to him thinking he would agree with me but instead went the other way.


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#344
Gherrick

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Not dumb certainly, because not all wargear have actual GW models/bits to represent them. We still don't have a generic wolf priest model...either use the ulrik one, or you must kitbash it yourself...I wonder if TOs would have issue with that?



#345
TheUnlikelyGamer84

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Bulwyf I don’t know what to tell you. I hope you took your money elsewhere as that Big city tournament and that game store are poison for the community And I’m guessing that’s not the only thing wrong there. To the rest of the world outside of our niche they are seen as friggin toys for god sake. I’m for one am glad my gaming community isn’t like that. and frankly I see that type of behavior Akin to bullying. If they keep that behavior up their will be no one to game with and last I checked 40k takes at least 2 players. Not everyone has the income to constantly change weapons and arms each time GW changes something. Which we know is often.
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#346
Bulwyf

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Bulwyf I don’t know what to tell you. I hope you took your money elsewhere as that Big city tournament and that game store are poison for the community And I’m guessing that’s not the only thing wrong there. To the rest of the world outside of our niche they are seen as friggin toys for god sake. I’m for one am glad my gaming community isn’t like that. and frankly I see that type of behavior Akin to bullying. If they keep that behavior up their will be no one to game with and last I checked 40k takes at least 2 players. Not everyone has the income to constantly change weapons and arms each time GW changes something. Which we know is often.

 

That led to me not doing tournaments again. I already hated the mentality of min/max everything and no fluff and that kind of WYSIWYG strict adherence was the last straw.

 

But that's me. There's other gamers that like WYSIWYG and again the tournaments enforce it. I just hope no one else has the experience I had.


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#347
Valerian

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“I know at least two tourney organizers that would post a picture of a frost weapon and a power weapon and tell you to switch to a power weapon on the model since it has its own model.”
Who? What tournaments?

 
Our local store had one where the guy went bonkers on me for having frost weapons on TWC that I was counting as TH with the opponents okaying it and it was correctly pointed on the list but he wouldn't let it go. Told me to break arms off or not use them and I was like well I guess I'm out of the tourney. The other one is from a large city that had the same mentality when I brought this exact situation up to him thinking he would agree with me but instead went the other way.

You were trying to pass off Frost/Power Weapons (axes and swords, I assume) as Thunder Hammers. I can see why they’d have a problem with that, if they were trying to enforce WYSIWYG.

However, that experience in no way validates your claim that either of these TOs would not count Frost Swords as Power Swords, or Frost Axes as Power Axes, especially as there is no meaningful differences in the bits. Just as there is no meaningful difference in the Master Crafted versions of those weapons.
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#348
Wispy

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Known Frost Axes: Harald's, Krom's, the one in that upgrade sprue, the Dreadnought frost axe, the wulfen frost axes

Known Frost Swords: Ragnar's, the one that comes with that upgrade sprue.

Known Frost Claws: Murderfang's, Wulfen Frost Claws

Edited by Wispy, 28 October 2020 - 07:25 PM.


#349
Bulwyf

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“I know at least two tourney organizers that would post a picture of a frost weapon and a power weapon and tell you to switch to a power weapon on the model since it has its own model.”
Who? What tournaments?

 
Our local store had one where the guy went bonkers on me for having frost weapons on TWC that I was counting as TH with the opponents okaying it and it was correctly pointed on the list but he wouldn't let it go. Told me to break arms off or not use them and I was like well I guess I'm out of the tourney. The other one is from a large city that had the same mentality when I brought this exact situation up to him thinking he would agree with me but instead went the other way.

You were trying to pass off Frost/Power Weapons (axes and swords, I assume) as Thunder Hammers. I can see why they’d have a problem with that, if they were trying to enforce WYSIWYG.

However, that experience in no way validates your claim that either of these TOs would not count Frost Swords as Power Swords, or Frost Axes as Power Axes, especially as there is no meaningful differences in the bits. Just as there is no meaningful difference in the Master Crafted versions of those weapons.

 

 

I already talked to the guy at the local store. He would not allow frost axes on models with how they operate now unless they were relic weapons. I haven't asked the other guy because I didn't know there would be an inquisition over this.  I'll ask him and wait for a response. 

 

I guess that does in fact "validate" my claim. rolleyesclean.gif

 

It also does not answer the problems I raised with other players, other WYSIWYG and the hobby side where your guys are running around with frost weapons and you simply don't have them at all now in 9th except as relic weapons. 

 

Not one person has really addressed this except to say don't play with people that would play that way. Ok...? What if that's the only people you can play with? What if you don't want your models to have now banned weapons? 

 

It is ok to admit there's no nice and tidy solution to those problems. 


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#350
Dark Shepherd

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Is Frostfang a frost sword or just has frost in the title and that caused a misconception? Or was it model design?

8th ed codex of strange scenario of Frost Swords being depicted as larger chainswords but anyone running Frost Swords probably just painted a power sword blue. Frost Axes and Claws were blued up rather than chained up too




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