TiguriusX Posted October 5, 2020 Share Posted October 5, 2020 We now have the worst Devastators in the game because Long Fangs were nerfed. Wolf Priests are literally unplayable. We have no Apothecary and no healing from Wolf Priests. Why bring them? Why bring Long Fangs? Why bring Wulfen? They even nerfed Bjorn just for fun it seems. This relentless optimism that "everything is fine ignore the house burning down around you" is unreal. How many other devastators get to add a terminator pack leader and storm shield? Our long fangs get decent protection from artillery with that combo The biggest concerns are no auto reroll...no keen senses and no wolf eye stratagem right now So the long fang offense has been reduced On the other hand they now get cherub and sign up buffs plus access to SM devastator stratagems Everything has good/bad List building will require changing of tactics Adapt or die right? Fenris is never constant...land masses form and disappear every season...the space wolves can handle the challenge svane jotunsbane, Kallas, Konnavaer and 2 others 5 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gherrick Posted October 5, 2020 Share Posted October 5, 2020 Wulfen have a movement of 8" now instead of 7", as well as the bump in toughness. They still have a place in lists, they just aren't the best-in-slot they once were. Valerian, Chazzmos, svane jotunsbane and 1 other 4 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wispy Posted October 5, 2020 Share Posted October 5, 2020 can you imagine if we weren't one of the first supplements up this time hahah RikuEru and Dark Shepherd 2 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dark Shepherd Posted October 5, 2020 Share Posted October 5, 2020 Wulfen have a movement of 8" now instead of 7", as well as the bump in toughness. They still have a place in lists, they just aren't the best-in-slot they once were. As it stands theyre 41 points each for TH but SS may be extra Problem is delivery, they dont get access to the litany that adds 2 to charge. Theyve lost advance and charge which was great out of vehicles. Vehicles have gone up in points. They lost the 5+++. Dont provide extra attacks. Death frenzy was nerfed too To me theyve gone from autoincludes in serious lists to fun/fluffy lists only Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bulwyf Posted October 5, 2020 Share Posted October 5, 2020 (edited) We now have the worst Devastators in the game because Long Fangs were nerfed. Wolf Priests are literally unplayable. We have no Apothecary and no healing from Wolf Priests. Why bring them? Why bring Long Fangs? Why bring Wulfen? They even nerfed Bjorn just for fun it seems. This relentless optimism that "everything is fine ignore the house burning down around you" is unreal. How many other devastators get to add a terminator pack leader and storm shield? Our long fangs get decent protection from artillery with that combo The biggest concerns are no auto reroll...no keen senses and no wolf eye stratagem right now So the long fang offense has been reduced On the other hand they now get cherub and sign up buffs plus access to SM devastator stratagems Everything has good/bad List building will require changing of tactics Adapt or die right? Fenris is never constant...land masses form and disappear every season...the space wolves can handle the challenge You also can't take as many in a squad which negates any bonus of having a now nerfed storm shield in a squad. This whole "the house is on fire everything is fine" thinking is unreal. Do you even acknowledge how badly we were nerfed by this errata? Adapt or die means you have valid alternatives within your army. After these nerfs there are none. The supplement has to be flat out AMAZING to make up for this level of army destruction. I also note you didn't address some of my other concerns. Why would GW target SW for this level of army killing? We were the WORST army in 8th edition. Even if some people had cheesy lists for three months into 9th that means we all have to suffer? Edited October 5, 2020 by Bulwyf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rune Priest Jbickb Posted October 5, 2020 Share Posted October 5, 2020 Swiftclaws also seem to be missing... Were bikers in our excluded list? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WrathOfTheLion Posted October 5, 2020 Share Posted October 5, 2020 They were not on the excluded list, I think that the standard bike datasheet is meant to suffice for now or permanently, if it does not show up in the supplement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeteySödes Posted October 5, 2020 Share Posted October 5, 2020 It’s a matter of perspective Bulwyf. I know this is several disappointments in a row for your playstyle after the litany thing for the stormwolf wulfen bomb so I feel for you. Personally for me I’m optimistic because I’m my eyes wulfen WERE too good, I love them but they overshadowed a lot of our other combat units and now there’s some space to shine. Our troops are better than they’ve ever been too and I’ve always like the boys before toys approach. Some the the long fangs stuff, priests, and a few fav strats being gone to me aren’t worth the negative energy because I have to believe they’ll be addressed in the codex. My personal playstyle has been shaken up a bit to be sure but overall I feel I have more viable options not less. It does suck though if you feel you’ve been hobbled which is absolutely valid too. Kallas, Konnavaer and Bulwyf 3 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TiguriusX Posted October 5, 2020 Share Posted October 5, 2020 It isn't my job to respond to every single point you have I gave you a positive from the change for perspective. We basically have devastators immune to small arms fire. Standing in the open we have 1+/4++ 3 wounds. With the range of long fang weapons you really cut down on options to kill them off. Figuring out how to maximize that in a list is what the hobby is all about. For now I'm done trying to talk you off the ledge. If you want to drop SW have at it. Kallas and Filius 2 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StrummersGhost Posted October 5, 2020 Share Posted October 5, 2020 I may be missing something, but the only option I can see for Wolf Lords and Wolf Guard Battle Leaders is to have them on thunderwolves. Is that right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WrathOfTheLion Posted October 5, 2020 Share Posted October 5, 2020 You would use the Captain and Lieutenant datasheets from the core Codex: Space Marines. The ones on TW are just the unique datasheets that can't be constructed from those. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StrummersGhost Posted October 5, 2020 Share Posted October 5, 2020 You would use the Captain and Lieutenant datasheets from the core Codex: Space Marines. The ones on TW are just the unique datasheets that can't be constructed from those. Makes sense, cheers! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rune Priest Jbickb Posted October 5, 2020 Share Posted October 5, 2020 They were not on the excluded list, I think that the standard bike datasheet is meant to suffice for now or permanently, if it does not show up in the supplement. Sad about the berserk charge loss then but still a solid unit, and might be worth bringing now that they have the extra wound and bs3 does not hurt either Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bulwyf Posted October 5, 2020 Share Posted October 5, 2020 It’s a matter of perspective Bulwyf. I know this is several disappointments in a row for your playstyle after the litany thing for the stormwolf wulfen bomb so I feel for you. Personally for me I’m optimistic because I’m my eyes wulfen WERE too good, I love them but they overshadowed a lot of our other combat units and now there’s some space to shine. Our troops are better than they’ve ever been too and I’ve always like the boys before toys approach. Some the the long fangs stuff, priests, and a few fav strats being gone to me aren’t worth the negative energy because I have to believe they’ll be addressed in the codex. My personal playstyle has been shaken up a bit to be sure but overall I feel I have more viable options not less. It does suck though if you feel you’ve been hobbled which is absolutely valid too. Thank you for the empathy. It is appreciated. If you remember I had to run the Stormwolf Wulfen bomb even in friendly games just to have a *chance* of winning in 8th. I never want to feel pressured to have auto include simply to have a chance to not get essentially (or literally in some games) blown off the table. Nerfing Wulfen that badly is not how you bring other units up to viability. Notice nothing else got substantially better to take their place in lists. This errata sets us back so badly it is unreal. This isn't just Wulfen being nerfed to dust collector status. Look at the other issues I've brought up. These are valid concerns that affect every SW player no matter which list you want to run. The unique flavor of a SW army has been completely lost. ORKILL 1 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WrathOfTheLion Posted October 5, 2020 Share Posted October 5, 2020 They were not on the excluded list, I think that the standard bike datasheet is meant to suffice for now or permanently, if it does not show up in the supplement. Sad about the berserk charge loss then but still a solid unit, and might be worth bringing now that they have the extra wound and bs3 does not hurt either We may see a reprint or modification in the supplement. Those rules can't be referenced in Codex: Space Marines, as they do not exist in that publication. So either there will be a modification set at the front of the book, or there will be a replacement datasheet in the book. Dark Angels have a similar situation, where any bike or landspeeder unit does not receive the Jink ability, and any Deathwing unit does not receive the Inner Circle ability. My guess is that there will be some activation clause/modification in the Codex Supplements, and that we will just have to make due for now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bulwyf Posted October 5, 2020 Share Posted October 5, 2020 It isn't my job to respond to every single point you have I gave you a positive from the change for perspective. We basically have devastators immune to small arms fire. Standing in the open we have 1+/4++ 3 wounds. With the range of long fang weapons you really cut down on options to kill them off. Figuring out how to maximize that in a list is what the hobby is all about. For now I'm done trying to talk you off the ledge. If you want to drop SW have at it. I'm not on a ledge. I'm the longest running actual SW player on this site. I started playing this game when it was Rogue Trader. I started playing SW when they were a legal army to take. Take a moment to think about how many editions, nerfs and Tau/Eldar complete domination of editions from then until now that I have endured. I am not giving up on SW. I am raising more than valid concerns about the state of our army after these catastrophic nerfs. You have no obligation to respond to my points. Very true. Since you can't actually refute that our army is significantly worse off today than it was say yesterday I don't understand why you would find any positives in it. 8th edition alone should have purged all SW players of any masochistic tendencies to always be the underdog. Or underwolf in our case. I am not giving up on our beloved Rout. Sadly GW clearly has. CaptainStabby, Filius and ORKILL 3 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karhedron Posted October 5, 2020 Share Posted October 5, 2020 (edited) Since you can't actually refute that our army is significantly worse off today than it was say yesterday I don't understand why you would find any positives in it. Yes we are worse than yesterday but the PDF gives us hints of things to come that are positive. Much of what is lost will be returned when we get our full-fat supplement rather than the low-cal PDF. Some nerfs may stick and I share your pain there. I bought Fangs of Morkai so my flyers and Wulfen took the hit too. But we will undoubtedly gain buffs and new stuff we haven't even thought of yet. Like you, I started playing Space Wolves with the original White Dwarf list. Yes the new SM Codex has knocked us behind the curve but this we know our supplement is just over a month away. Soon our enemies will lie on the red snow once more. Edited October 5, 2020 by Karhedron Bulwyf, Konnavaer, BadgersinHills and 3 others 6 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harald Fairmane Posted October 5, 2020 Share Posted October 5, 2020 Canis keeps his 6" hi, and his +1 a to beasts includes logans wolves. Would be interesting to see if a fenrisian wolf list would be okay. Ulrik neither has shared ld or healing balms. Hope that won't be true for all wolf priests. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gherrick Posted October 5, 2020 Share Posted October 5, 2020 I don't think anyone reported this yet: terminators cannot take lightning claws. Evidently that's just for power armor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dark Shepherd Posted October 5, 2020 Share Posted October 5, 2020 Canis keeps his 6" hi, and his +1 a to beasts includes logans wolves. Would be interesting to see if a fenrisian wolf list would be okay. Ulrik neither has shared ld or healing balms. Hope that won't be true for all wolf priests. He gets fight first v characters too. Tack on a warlord trat as well...hes looking good Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bulwyf Posted October 5, 2020 Share Posted October 5, 2020 I don't think anyone reported this yet: terminators cannot take lightning claws. Evidently that's just for power armor. Whoa, seriously? I thought GW even mentioned something in the community article about terminators taking lightning claws. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gherrick Posted October 5, 2020 Share Posted October 5, 2020 I don't think anyone reported this yet: terminators cannot take lightning claws. Evidently that's just for power armor. Whoa, seriously? I thought GW even mentioned something in the community article about terminators taking lightning claws. My bad, kinda. It's listed on the data sheet, but not on the points list. I assumed all weapon options were there. Bulwyf 1 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NatBrannigan Posted October 5, 2020 Share Posted October 5, 2020 Basically ignoring all of this until the supplement comes out, although I suspect the datasheet changes will stay (except for units like longfangs who are just getting by for now on Devestator rules). I suspect we'll be just fine, i'm quite looking forward to the supplement. Karhedron and Dark Shepherd 2 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Valdr Fell-fist Posted October 5, 2020 Share Posted October 5, 2020 (edited) They’re on the list of upgrades for Wolf Guard Terminators, brother. Edit:beaten to the answer. Edited October 5, 2020 by Valdr Fell-fist Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bulwyf Posted October 5, 2020 Share Posted October 5, 2020 I don't think anyone reported this yet: terminators cannot take lightning claws. Evidently that's just for power armor. Whoa, seriously? I thought GW even mentioned something in the community article about terminators taking lightning claws. My bad, kinda. It's listed on the data sheet, but not on the points list. I assumed all weapon options were there. At least we still have that as an option. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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