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Index astartes: Deathwatch


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98 replies to this topic

#1
xenomortis

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https://www.warhamme...RuhVxZsxTuV.pdf


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#2
Rikev

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Am I missing something or is there no way to give Primaris units SIA as their weapons don't have the Special Ammo ability?

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#3
Azaiel

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Just had a quick lookthru, looks promising for our coming supplement.

 

Watchmaster is still good.

 

Kill team Cassius is a cool idea but I missed if its special in any way.

 

The Frag round in our fraglauncher got longer range but less shots.

 

Hellfire and vengeance rounds have been changed.(!)


Edited by Azaiel, 05 October 2020 - 03:47 PM.

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#4
Banjulhu

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SIA is basically limited to death watch vets with boltguns now and a few characters.

 

It's one way to stop DW players giving everything that can have it a stormbolter.



#5
MeatGrinder

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None of the primaris units have SIA according to this, I think this is an oversight but RAW they cant use SIA. Not sure why they didnt just do a whole reprint of ALL the bolt weapons.

Spectrus kill teams don't gain the reaver keyword so afaik they cant use the 'ignore obsec' strat.

Indomitor KTs look great, obsec eradicators is nice. I forsee these as a go-to for us for t5 objective holders.

We didnt get any unique strats here, unlike any of the other non-codex chapters.


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#6
Charlo

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Yeah it seems like SIA is gone from "EVERY BOLT WEAPON EVER" and considering the Deathwatch's new presentation as a big full chapter in the core Codex... It makes sense. It was going to be impossible to balance and this (rightly) makes Deathwatch Vets different to Intercessors and the Primaris types of Kill Team.

 

Do Heavy Intercessors really need SIA? lol.

 

The only shame is the Deathwatch Bikers lost it, but puzzlingly the White Scar in Kill Team Cassius still has it...?

 

Could be an error seeing as they are a specific DW unit. Or GW just wanted to limit the amount of SIA bullets going out.

 

Also seems like the Terminator Meltagun Fist is gone, except for KT-Cassius too.



#7
Boyadventurer

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Hopefully the kill teams get more fleshed out in the actual supplement. Without some of the bonuses they used to give, there's not a whole lot of reason to take some of them.

With the changes to hellfire and vengeance, I think I'd rather just go all auto bolt rifle on my intercessors (*IF* they even get SIA in the supplement). It's nice to be able to manipulate the damage with vengeance rounds now.

We're the only chapter who can field 5 eliminators in one unit ;)

The addition of the attack bike was a surprise.

The shotgun got a solid buff across all ammo which is nice. Too bad frag cannon took a hit.

Black shield gets +1A if he has two melee weapons, so they finally did something about the two sword display model from the initial release.


My group has been holding back our crusade start so we have a sense of whats going on with DW (and not just have my roster invalidated). Honestly this didn't help too much. I think it's a coin flip if Primaris will get SIA going forward. Maybe only the Fortis kill team? I doubt Idomitor or Spectrus would.


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#8
Charlo

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Hopefully the kill teams get more fleshed out in the actual supplement. Without some of the bonuses they used to give, there's not a whole lot of reason to take some of them.

 

I'd say the fact that Kill Teams are troops is a pretty damn good reason! Obj Sec!



#9
Debauchery101

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Yes they did what I have been wanting...a phobos kill team! Im not officially not salty at hammers getting ap-2


Edited by Prot, 05 October 2020 - 07:21 PM.
Removed implied cursing.

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#10
ThatRedOne

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Hmm. I'm guessing the lack of SIA on the bikers is an oversight since the weapons list mentions a Deathwatch Twin Boltgun that no units actually have.

#11
Debauchery101

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Being able to have 5 man squad outriders that are troops choices with obsec...bruh....major win for us.
Adding 3 multimelta Eradicators to hvy intercessors....I'll take two of those squads!

Edited by Debauchery101, 05 October 2020 - 04:46 PM.

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#12
Charlo

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Hmm. I'm guessing the lack of SIA on the bikers is an oversight since the weapons list mentions a Deathwatch Twin Boltgun that no units actually have.

 

The White Scar biker in Kill Team Cassius has one... But that's it.



#13
Debauchery101

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Hmm. I'm guessing the lack of SIA on the bikers is an oversight since the weapons list mentions a Deathwatch Twin Boltgun that no units actually have.

none of the datasheets have SIA on them. It's a faction ability. Bikers in fact have Twin Boltguns which is referenced on pg 11 when you see the unit options in the proteus killteams

Edited by Debauchery101, 05 October 2020 - 04:37 PM.

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#14
bortbortbort

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SIA is a weapon ability now and it's in all re-printed bolt weapons. I call oversight... (And yes, RAW SIA is pretty much gone)

#15
Debauchery101

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Oh yeah I see what you're saying now. My eyes didn't even look that direction. Ive been way too pumped on the 5 man outriders. Even without SIA thats a lot of wounds, dakka and choppa
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#16
Of the night

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I'm gonna be controversial here and suggest that these oversights are intentional! I mean they want you to have reasons to buy the supplement instead of just using this PDF. So i reckon that most of the oversights like SIA being omitted from a lot of weapons, not many abilities for the kill teams and no strats, warlord traits or relics. Will be addressed in the book. In the meantime i'm going to focus on the positives:

 

- Kill team cassius is back! I have missed having the options for more characters. Artemis was just not enough

- FOUR WHOLE KILL TEAMS. I expect these to be very interesting (also anyone else notice it's only bladeguard and suppressors left out of the kill teams?)

- Attack bikes in bike squads

- Black shields getting an upgrade


Edited by Of the night, 05 October 2020 - 05:06 PM.

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#17
bortbortbort

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Ah f... RIP frag cannon.
No longer auto hits.
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#18
Mobius0288

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Wow, looking really good actually. Lots of interesting things. Stuff I noticed:

 

-SIA reworked (Dragonfire, Hellfire and Kraken)

-SIA limited to DW boltguns

-Kill Team Cassius getting some unique rules while not losing them when an individual character dies; also has unique ammo on basically everything

-Lost the melta fist on termies (except cassius)

-Gained the Plasma Cannon for termies

-Power fists and chainfists cost the same

-Limited heavy thunder hammers to 1 every 5 vets (matches sprue I suppose)

*Heavy Thunder hammers can be taken by Sgts or Blackshields (4 dmg bruh); Sgt can take a combat shield with it?

*Phobos access and kill team options

*Grav Armor access and kill team options

-HQs with SIA are limited to the ones listed, as it is not in the datasheets of Codex: Space Marine (these are probably enough until the supplement IMO)

-Biker Sgt gets Xenoblade access

-Attack Biker access

-Stalker-pattern boltgun reduced to 1 shot

-DW Shotgun default rounds got boosted to 18"?

-Bolter discipline (and stratagems) should be more applicable to a majority of our units, if it's still a thing


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#19
Debauchery101

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Ah f... RIP frag cannon.
No longer auto hits.

Yeah I have been confused with the frag cannon...they made the auto hit part blast...the shell should be blast and the flechette just be auto hit...but the auto hit and blast...that was way OP...but honestly I'm more looking at infernus hvy bolters nowadays
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#20
Lemondish

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I really like what I'm seeing here. Those Kill Teams look mighty fun as well, even without SIA. I kind of expected SIA to become a more limited resource given how rolling us into the new codex would result in Marines ++ for DW if they didn't change things around.  

Now I can't wait to see what the new traits, relics, and Stratagems look like. This bodes very well for our Supplement. 

 

And finally finally, Kill Teams will look like their kit. 



#21
Mobius0288

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Ah f... RIP frag cannon.
No longer auto hits.

But hey, we get the range boost so we can deep strike and shoot.


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#22
Feral_80

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I accidentally posted this in the News forum, but anyway:

 

 

We will miss a rain of hits wounding on 2+ but frankly that was probably too good considering that DW seems to be turned into a full-scale chapter.

 

I quite like the new SIA rounds, they seem to be much more balanced than before.

 

AND - correct me if I am missing something - it seems that now SIA can be used along with Bolter Discipline, as I cannot find anything forbidding that anymore. Tasty!

 

 

I am also glad that this proves, once more, that Dakka/BOLS rumours are mostly pure bull:cuss and should be binned instantly.


Edited by Feral_80, 05 October 2020 - 05:28 PM.


#23
Debauchery101

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I dont even take these rules as complete or concrete...since the announcement of Indomitus and all the rules and points updates...to the weapons and wound changes to now new points and options and most people don't have the codex and still also waiting on the supplement.

Right now I'm just going to use these additions to test new stuff. The Phobos killteam and 5 man outriders with obsec has my scheming gears redlined
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#24
Of the night

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Any thoughts on bladeguard and suppressors being left out of the kill teams people? To be honest i think GW have just forgot suppressors exist. I thought the bladeguard might be in the fortis and suppressors... not sure on could go in any of the primaris teams as they have a weird armour mix.

 

I also hope that they'll make veteran intercessors the fortis base as it would make sense. All our firstborn are vets



#25
quasistellar

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Well at least I think I now have enough info to paint my Outriders as DW.  I really couldn't think of any good synergy for them in Iron Hands.






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