63 replies to this topic

[Jud Cottrell]

Thanks Are Verlo!

 

I like to paint a model most days, otherwise I get withdrawal!! 

 

Glad you liked my work, this is about the third or fourth time I've started my beloved Krieg.

 

I've currently got a couple of armies to play with so I don't have to rush to get them built!

 

Cheers for the interest.

[Slave to Darkness]

Just wondering if you have to change any future plans with your army now we have the lowdown on the FW compendium? 

[Jud Cottrell]

Not really, it’ll still be artillery and mass infantry.

That said there doesn’t seem to be any of the stuff that codex Astra Militarum has in the list of Krieg options (no infantry, heavy weapons teams or Commissars)

This has me wondering if this will be an update like the Chapter supplements are for Space Marines, where we may have access to Codex AM but with our flavour units.

This is just speculation but it might be cool to have access to Astra Militarum units.

In the article on the GW Community website they say we’ll be getting more details on the Krieg later in the week.

So I guess we’ll get more meat on the bones soon.

[Warhead01]

I'm interested to hear what they have to say about the new DKoK rules. 

I'm not really 100% sure how "Bad" is it.
I just reread morale phase.
No negatives on combat attrition is probably fairly strong.
One dude runs off the rest have to roll and fail for sure on a 1 or on a 1 and 2 if the unit is under 50%, which will probably be the case. And I see that Moral is taken by both player on each players turns, not like older editions used to do it. So this rule could come into play more often than expected , 10 times in a 5 turn game.
Is it amazing, not really. It is horrible, not really.
I think the best way to get the most use out of it is clearly more flame weapons and more Over charged Plasma weapons and smaller points games where Krieg can game the system. Wondering if this rule was designed as a Die for the emperor Meme.
Side note I am wondering if Krieg will turn up in any special regiment rules in the next AM/IG codex. supplemented by the options in this new book.
As for me, I don't play competitively and plan to use the death riders and maybe change their regimental doctrine to which ever one I am using.
My friends probably wont care.

[Dark Legionnare]

I'm interested to hear what they have to say about the new DKoK rules. 

I'm not really 100% sure how "Bad" is it.
I just reread morale phase.
No negatives on combat attrition is probably fairly strong.
One dude runs off the rest have to roll and fail for sure on a 1 or on a 1 and 2 if the unit is under 50%, which will probably be the case. And I see that Moral is taken by both player on each players turns, not like older editions used to do it. So this rule could come into play more often than expected , 10 times in a 5 turn game.
Is it amazing, not really. It is horrible, not really.
I think the best way to get the most use out of it is clearly more flame weapons and more Over charged Plasma weapons and smaller points games where Krieg can game the system. Wondering if this rule was designed as a Die for the emperor Meme.
Side note I am wondering if Krieg will turn up in any special regiment rules in the next AM/IG codex. supplemented by the options in this new book.
As for me, I don't play competitively and plan to use the death riders and maybe change their regimental doctrine to which ever one I am using.
My friends probably wont care.

As an avid, and fluffy, Krieg lad myself, I don't care about the doctrine changes so much. What I am gutted about, is the removal of our unique units/loadouts, but most of them can be circumvented like I'll lay out below. 

 

As for the doctrine itself, sure, it means we're not just standing in withering hails of fire without caring anymore (fluffy as hell, Vraks personified). On the flipside, is that where we would get absolutely slaughtered in melee pretty often as soon as something touched a unit in melee after killing some models; now, in melee, we could lose 6 guys and not just very-likely automatically self-destruct unless we paid 2CP due to morale. In addition, the "maybe shoot when you die" for Characters and vehicles is a little pants, but we don't know, maybe there's more we don't know yet. Some specific strategem that will let us auto pass that test and fire all weapons at full BS for 2CP or something like that. That would be pretty neat/effective on any flavor of Leman Russ!  Let's not forget hellhounds either. Hellhounds being able to 50% of the time get a last hurrah with their cannon (which has PRETTY GOOD range) will make being aggressive with them a bit more fun.

Now for unit losses:
 

• Units that were basically AM with different names and subtle loadout changes: (they were "ours", flair that our very expensive all-resin army had some nice uniqueness with.)
  • Grenadiers were stormtroopers/scions, in every way except WS, loadout options and name.
    • I don't like to see them go, but still being able to run them "the same" but as scions in terms of supported rules, points, etc... not too much a hit. I'll still call them Storm Grenadiers.
  • DKoK infantry squad is much the same. Guardman with WS3, and no heavy weapon teams.
    • Nothing says I have to run the loadout with a HWT, so they'll still be the same loadout and tactics.
  • Mars Leman Russ
    • The buff was SO minimal, it never even warranted a points increase over normal LR's. I'd say, as long as you're not at a tournament, nobody would likely be upset if you still used the Mars pattern rules for the +1 against S4 or less.
  • DKoK HWS's
    • Literally the same unit, but with different label, so nothing really lost. In a DKoK army, they are still "DKoK heavy weapons squads" if you say it with your mouth.
• Units that were entirely unique: (truly "ours" in all facets)
  • Karis Venner
    • Mayhaps we'll get a new "uber" commander character that's unnamed? We'll see. Never had an official model as far as I knew, everyone I know (myself) used the marshal model but painted differently.
  • Centaurs
    • RIP little tractors of adorable, suicidal emperor-serving goodness. Never got to use or make any, but always wanted to.
    • I know these are tried and true to a lot of people, and I honestly don't have an idea of how to circumvent the squatting of these.  Here's hoping for legends goodness.
  • Quartermaster Cadre
    • The lord of bones and his cyborg cronies were a cool kit. These will be missed. In the same vein though, putting him in a command squad as a medic is the flavor to use him now I suppose. Shame the coat & helmet holders are basically for flair now, but oh well.
    • Still that "loss of our flair" that's most gutting.  Relegating him to just some chump in a squad rather than the standalone unit who's sacred duty of getting all that gear ready to go on another dutiful servant of the emperor to redeem our planet and people for their past heresies is pretty lame.
  • Storm Chimera
    • My most-gutted-feeling unit loss. I looooooved my autocannon chimeras with armor skirts.  I looooove the Venator, but tied for "coolest guard light/med vehicle" with it was the storm chimera.  Something looks so "right" about that autocannon and skirt loadout
    • Unique ability was worth filling leftover points with, but never something you really took out of hand. Not game-breaking to lose, and, again, any non-tournament opponent I'm sure will have no problem with you still paying 10pts for the +1sv against s4 or less. Hell, maybe even just taking it for free. I legit had it come into play less than five times in all of 8th.
      • If you ever got the mine ability to be of use, congrats, no matter how many times we forced mines into games, it never ended up coming up for mine. (no pun intended)
    • With a single autocannon being basically "nothing" with guard BS 4+, and likely having a small, fixed PT amount across all vehicles in new book, again, I'd say "Run a chimera, tell your opponent you're taking an AC in the turret instead of a ML. I don't think anybody will object. 2 shots per vehicle is nowhere near a fist-shakeable offense for "bending the list rules" a bit.

 

I've heard it proposed by many others that perhaps we'll get our own sort of "supplement" book?  Maybe!  Maybe in there will be rules for "DKoK" upgrades to a unit that transform a standard AM unit (scions, chimera, etc....) unit into a DKoK variant unlocking the wargear options of old units now no longer standalone in the IA compendium. A DKoK "masters of the chapter" type unit upgrade system. Wishlisty, sure, but could make sense.

 

I would like to see some other facet tied to our doctrine, like a "If your army is composed of solely DKoK detachments, all infantry squads, scions, HWS's, and veterans gain +1WS" come into play in this hypothetical supplement. (I'd say "all infantry", but bullgryns exist.) Heck, even just many other further rules for a DKoK-only force in the compendium (IE, no supplement) might be possible.

I'd love this the most, to keep us with that fluffy flair of grizzled trench fighters adept at even dragging down superhuman astartes by dearth of bodies, shovels, & bayonets with no regards for our own lives or well being.

 

</my2cents>

[Jud Cottrell]

Thanks for that Dark Legionnaire.

I think you’ve summed it up nicely.

Let’s face it you don’t build a Krieg army for kick ass rules (though it would be nice!) you build it for the love of the models.

I feel kinda lucky that none of the stuff (with the exception of the infantry squads) not listed was in my plans anyway. So feel like I dodged a bullet there.

My plan remains to build an artillery heavy force backed up with the mass infantry and cavalry.

I’m starting the army whatever happens so I’ll try to stay positive.

Who knows maybe GW will release Krieg plastics and save us all a bunch of cash!!!

[Closet Skeleton]

That said there doesn’t seem to be any of the stuff that codex Astra Militarum has in the list of Krieg options (no infantry, heavy weapons teams or Commissars)

This has me wondering if this will be an update like the Chapter supplements are for Space Marines, where we may have access to Codex AM but with our flavour units.

This is just speculation but it might be cool to have access to Astra Militarum units.

 

I don't think anyone will be able to know the real state of Krieg until the 9th ed Astra Milatarum codex.

[Galron]

Some of us did lose out pretty badly. I didn't have a huge army but I concentrated on the unique aspects of it, namely grenadiers on Assault Centaurs and I used conquerors and annihilators pretty heavily as well. Mordian Glory says the good parts are we can field conscripts now and the new rules benefit large units. I have an all infantry Praetorian army that I have been slowly working on and adding to for years, I am not turning my  Kriegers into an infantry horde when I already have one. I guess we can see how and if Legends will treat them.

[Warhead01]

I also hope that what Mordian Glory is saying is true and I think I made the same points in my own thread a while ago at the very least I recall it has come up. Conscripts would be a fantastic addition the the DKoK. 
As to the changes I also want to see how they work with the current faq, which I suspect they will change, der duh I guess. I really thought there was another document covering DKoK units floating in the either but who knows at this point.  
I feel bad for the DKoK collectors but not as bad as I would if I still had my collection, which I foolishly lost over a bad transaction over ebay because I am incredibly stupid and too trusting.
My larger hope for the DKoK is that there will be some changes to the field artillery so than they can in some way be given orders even if it's the same as the roll for conscripts. Better than nothing.  
If your just playing with friends or with people who just want to have cool games don't be afraid to put the list you want to play together and even dip your toes into the narrative play if it lets you access all of your collection. Some people just enjoy crazy games every now and then. 
I also see power levels as a way to cover the gap where points may not as that more or less lets everyone have their cake and eat it too in such events ^^ 
It's really all about who you roll dice with. I'm not really into competitive play and haven't been in, zounds, 10 years now. 
You may have to make adjustments to a codex list if you go and as much as that will sting it could be good. Alternatively maybe people will want to play 5th -8th just to fight your amazing army. In which case.. crush them!  

New Krieg information from war com.
https://www.warhamme...Z-lHuk53qL_d-W0

Edited by Warhead01, 29 October 2020 - 03:14 PM.

[Jud Cottrell]

Iirc you used to be able to issue orders to Krieg artillery!

It’s been confirmed, Krieg regiments will now get access to the full Astra Militarum codex!!

On over news, I’ve ordered both sets of Heavy Artillery Carriages and I’m close to finishing my Command HQ squad.

Hopefully Forgeworld will have enough Compendiums for everyone tomorrow!

[Slave to Darkness]

Can Ratlings take the Krieg keyword? I have only ever used Abhumans in one game at the start of 5th, so I dont have a clue what they can and cant do atm. 

[Dark Legionnare]

Looking at the compendium today.

Hopefully they just typo'd hard (as FW is known to do) because on top of everything else now MIA, they torpedoed the Death Riders

3W now, Spear is +2S AP-3, D2 on the charge, and the FNP is for anything, not just S4 or less. Nice, nice...


Oh... wait...

1A on rider, 2A on Sergeant, WS4+, BS3+?!?!? (BS3 with still only being able to take laspistols, wat...)

Ugg.

Yeah, that's just what we need. A dedicated melee unit that can't hit for crap 50% of the time, and only has 6 Attacks.

Ugg.

Side note, looks like they finally figured out how to do vanquishers, if the D9 carries over to leman Russes too, from macharius tanks.

Edited by Dark Legionnare, 31 October 2020 - 06:47 PM.

[Closet Skeleton]

Can Ratlings take the Krieg keyword? I have only ever used Abhumans in one game at the start of 5th, so I dont have a clue what they can and cant do atm. 

Abhumans can't take any keywords, they just get ignored for regiment purposes.

[Jud Cottrell]

Dark Legionnare, I've ordered my copy of the Compendium but don't have it so haven't seen it first hand.

 

I believe the 1 attack is only on the Hunting Lance, they also get 2 attacks at str4 -1 ap for the mount (according to the GW Community page)

 

I must admit though, 4+ WS is a bit of a let down. Have you seen the pts for them now? 

 

 

I've finished my Command Squad!!

 

I decided to give these guys a touch more blue, rather than just the blue stripes I used on the engineers, I was trying to give them a little something extra.

 

I think I'll try and do this across the whole army, where the more blue, the higher the rank.

 

Death Korps of Krieg Command Squad 

 

Death Korps of Krieg Command Squad 

 

Death Korps of Krieg Command Squad 

 

Death Korps of Krieg Command Squad

 

Death Korps of Krieg Command Squad 

 

Death Korps of Krieg Command Squad 

 

Thanks for looking!

[Slave to Darkness]

 

Can Ratlings take the Krieg keyword? I have only ever used Abhumans in one game at the start of 5th, so I dont have a clue what they can and cant do atm. 

Abhumans can't take any keywords, they just get ignored for regiment purposes.

 

 Cheers mate, Dont have access to the dex so I aint figured most of the stuff out yet. That helped a lot cheers

[Dark Legionnare]

 

Dark Legionnare, I've ordered my copy of the Compendium but don't have it so haven't seen it first hand.

 

I believe the 1 attack is only on the Hunting Lance, they also get 2 attacks at str4 -1 ap for the mount (according to the GW Community page)

 

I must admit though, 4+ WS is a bit of a let down. Have you seen the pts for them now? 

 

 

I've finished my Command Squad!!

 

I decided to give these guys a touch more blue, rather than just the blue stripes I used on the engineers, I was trying to give them a little something extra.

 

I think I'll try and do this across the whole army, where the more blue, the higher the rank.

 

Death Korps of Krieg Command Squad

 

Death Korps of Krieg Command Squad

 

Death Korps of Krieg Command Squad

 

Death Korps of Krieg Command Squad

 

Death Korps of Krieg Command Squad

 

Death Korps of Krieg Command Squad

 

Thanks for looking!

 

Points are 15 per model (weirdly exactly the  same as the command squad which has 2A per guy, but still only WS4) so, not bad cost-wise. Also, yes, you're right about the hooves, but they're still that WS4+.

They're going to hit like a pool noodle, and wither getting hit back.  I mean, its 15 T4 wounds with 4+ and 5+++ saves, for a 5 man squad, but their role isn't to be a "mild tarpit", it's to be one of our few decisive strike units. Charge in with explosive lances and get out, or move on to your next victims. Quick, decisive strikes and charges, not drawn out pillow fights where they miss 50% of their paltry attacks (especially the lances that only get a good profile on the charge in) and then do nothing.  This is especially prudent in a game where what you don't kill, can just step away, and have a nearby friendly unit light up your cav that likely did little to no impact.

I'm still infinitely baffled by the BS3+... That makes zero sense. I'm convinced they accidentally swapped the BS and WS, and my gaming circle has already agreed to play them as such (WS3 BS4) regardless of day 1 FAQ. 

Side note, at least the breaching drill isn't forced to take weird veterans anymore from their lazy copypasting. (Something else my group understood, and as long as I paid engineer costs, took engineers with it)

</salt>

That command squad is dope, man. You did a very, very, very good job.  I'm really digging the blue, it's such a good hue to go with the drab overall look of krieg uniforms.

Edited by Dark Legionnare, 02 November 2020 - 03:10 AM.

[Jud Cottrell]

Thanks Dark Legionnaire!

I hope you’re right about the 3+ WS, they always used to be.

As for the Hades Breaching Drill, I can’t wait to get 2 of them! I like the idea of them and they look so cool!

Progress has stalled atm, I’m waiting for my order to arrive, hopefully it gets here before the lockdown starts on Thursday.

[Dark Legionnare]

Thanks Dark Legionnaire!

I hope you’re right about the 3+ WS, they always used to be.

As for the Hades Breaching Drill, I can’t wait to get 2 of them! I like the idea of them and they look so cool!

Progress has stalled atm, I’m waiting for my order to arrive, hopefully it gets here before the lockdown starts on Thursday.

You'll love them!  Especially paired with engineers.  The deadliest part of that combo, (if the drill coring your opponent's vehicles and monsters out like an apple wasn't good enough) is the grenadiers gas grenades.

Pop them up somewhere hidden, bide your time until you can get in grenade range on the next turn.  (This also works by busing engis to the front with a chimera for turn 2 goodness, but the drill is too damn thematic not to use.)

Then go full WW1 (but even worse) on your opponent with a squad of 10 using the grenadiers strat to throw all 10 at once on an unsuspecting foe.  You're now successfully recreating a miniature Istvaan III on your battlefield.

[Jud Cottrell]

Can’t wait to try them out! I fully intend on running them with some Engineers! Bit disappointed you can no longer equip Engineers with Meltaguns.

It’ll have to wait awhile as I’m currently waiting on my Heavy Artillery.

Could you please confirm something for me? I haven’t seen the Compendium yet.
Are the Artillery and crew considered one model now? I’m hoping what I heard was true as I’d like to build them as mini dioramas!

[Dark Legionnare]

Can’t wait to try them out! I fully intend on running them with some Engineers! Bit disappointed you can no longer equip Engineers with Meltaguns.

It’ll have to wait awhile as I’m currently waiting on my Heavy Artillery.

Could you please confirm something for me? I haven’t seen the Compendium yet.
Are the Artillery and crew considered one model now? I’m hoping what I heard was true as I’d like to build them as mini dioramas!

Yes, they are.  Just in time a year later to invalidate my own "avoid the diorama" decisions.

This has flipflopped over the additions, so I'd advise at least basing each crewman, making a little slot in the diorama for his base, and magnetizing that, if you've got anal folks in your play area that would be angry if it flopped again and your guys were not removeable from the bases.  If it were up to me though, you diorama those lads as pretty as possible, F the consequences down the road.

I have each of mine with:

-Coincidence-rangefinder guy
-Radio guy with charts
-Loader
-Firer

that could be very easy to magnetize base-size areas in good spots, since they fit behind and alongside my arty carriages fine on open table on bases right now.

Edited by Dark Legionnare, 02 November 2020 - 08:25 PM.

[Bjorn Firewalker]

Excellent work on the regimental standard! Are the skulls manmade, to commemorate a battle or a great achievement? Or are they real, and put on the standard to honor the Krieger martyrs they came from?

[Jud Cottrell]

Great advice again Dark Legionnaire!

Do you know what? I’m going all in!

I really like the idea of the mini dioramas, hopefully the bases I ordered (170x105) will give me a large enough area to work with.

Still no confirmation of dispatch, I’m getting worried.

Bjorn Firewalker, thanks man! I like to think the skulls are of Martyred heroes! Momento Mori and all that!

[GreenScorpion]

If there is something that looks nice as a mini diorama is artillery firing on the enemy
It will be nice to see what you come up with, especially with your basing/painting skills.

[Jud Cottrell]

Thanks for the vote of confidence GreenScorpion! I’ll do my best.

Still no sign of my Heavy Artillery. Has anyone else had problems with Forgeworld kits taking ages lately?

Will build a squad of Infantry while I’m waiting.

[Dark Legionnare]

Great advice again Dark Legionnaire!

Do you know what? I’m going all in!

I really like the idea of the mini dioramas, hopefully the bases I ordered (170x105) will give me a large enough area to work with.

Still no confirmation of dispatch, I’m getting worried.

Bjorn Firewalker, thanks man! I like to think the skulls are of Martyred heroes! Momento Mori and all that!

legends is out, and the krieg grenadiers are WS3 & BS3. *facepalm*

This WS stuff is ridiculously lazy and they need to pick a lane.

Forge world is drunk, somebody call a cab to get them home safely.

 

As for your arty, UK lockdown-two, electric boogaloo, has likely got them and the postal service scrambling to get folks in order/things chaotic.  When the first one hit, my UK-origin shipments caught an extra 10 day delay from estimated total time.