Which DA hero would you like to see cross the Rubicon?

[bigtrouble]

My mistake Wrath. Thanks.

[templarphoenix]

 

 

Dont care.

I will run firstborn ravenwing/deathwing for now, primaris are too bland for me.

I think that's an excellent point. What would any new lore in the supplement have to achieve in order to remove any Primaris blandness?

Need some chapter specific primaris sculpt.

They did this for deathguard, a pack of unique pose plague marine champion, just need some of that.

Otherwise primaris are just ultramarines in different color.

Edited October 30, 2020 by templarphoenix

[jaxom]

 

 

 

Dont care.

I will run firstborn ravenwing/deathwing for now, primaris are too bland for me.

I think that's an excellent point. What would any new lore in the supplement have to achieve in order to remove any Primaris blandness?

Need some chapter specific primaris sculpt.

They did this for deathguard, a pack of unique pose plague marine champion, just need some of that.

Otherwise primaris are just ultramarines in different color.

Huh, interesting train of thought. What is your opinion on the Dark Angel 3rd-9th companies? What makes them more than Ultramarines of a different color?

[WrathOfTheLion]

Obviously missing some company veteran equivalent with robes of some kind.

 

There's a defined aesthetic there, and we should see a progression of base models as more plain, with progressively more character added until HQs. We're missing the in between Lazarus and a standard intercessor, which would be some 3-9th veteran with more DA specific iconography.

 

The obvious problem without that is that we do not change paint on helmets, etc. for veterans, and there is no 1st/2nd company for standard veterans to exist in. So a veteran intercessor for example is basically only to differ from a standard intercessor by their squad marking, whilst veterans are typically denoted by robes amongst unforgiven chapters.

Edited October 30, 2020 by WrathOfTheLion

[jaxom]

 

The obvious problem without that is that we do not change paint on helmets, etc. for veterans, and there is no 1st/2nd company for standard veterans to exist in. So a veteran intercessor for example is basically only to differ from a standard intercessor by their squad marking, whilst veterans are typically denoted by robes amongst unforgiven chapters.

 

This is why my original question was, "What would any new lore in the supplement have to achieve in order to remove any Primaris blandness?" Chapter specific sculpts, I think we've got what we've got, you've nailed it on the head regarding paint jobs. The way I see it that means the hard sell is that players have to have something to latch on to or, as templarphoenix said we're stuck with Green Ultramarines.

[WrathOfTheLion]

I think sticking to its basics would help a lot. Refraining from doing things like making 'Deathwing Aggressors' would help considerably to let the new Ravenwing and Deathwing units settle in as expansionary/supplementary assets to their respective companies.

 

The bladeguard I see as a fine expansion to the Deathwing, they've made the right move by essentially placing everything in that category into the DW. Keeping some restraint and not then diluting it with units that exist already in other companies would help keep them from really feeling watered down.

Edited October 30, 2020 by WrathOfTheLion

[USNCenturion]

If we’re being accurate, as the first legion, Ultramarines are just blue Datk Angels

[Murdicus]

Obviously missing some company veteran equivalent with robes of some kind.

 

There's a defined aesthetic there, and we should see a progression of base models as more plain, with progressively more character added until HQs. We're missing the in between Lazarus and a standard intercessor, which would be some 3-9th veteran with more DA specific iconography.

 

The obvious problem without that is that we do not change paint on helmets, etc. for veterans, and there is no 1st/2nd company for standard veterans to exist in. So a veteran intercessor for example is basically only to differ from a standard intercessor by their squad marking, whilst veterans are typically denoted by robes amongst unforgiven chapters.

Leuitenant zakariah?

[WrathOfTheLion]

Still an HQ, but yes, he does exist.

 

The point was that there should be a scale of detail

 

Line infantry -- Elite Infantry -- HQs/Characters

 

We're missing 'Elite Infantry' to add character to the primaris aspect of the army. In the case of pure Greenwing, this would obviously be constituted by a Veteran Intercessor kit with robes and all, taking the position of company veterans.

Edited October 31, 2020 by WrathOfTheLion

[Jings]

I think sticking to its basics would help a lot. Refraining from doing things like making 'Deathwing Aggressors' would help considerably to let the new Ravenwing and Deathwing units settle in as expansionary/supplementary assets to their respective companies.

 

The bladeguard I see as a fine expansion to the Deathwing, they've made the right move by essentially placing everything in that category into the DW. Keeping some restraint and not then diluting it with units that exist already in other companies would help keep them from really feeling watered down.

Nah. Bladeguard are Deathwing because they're the first company sword dudes ala stern- and vanguard marines. Problem is, they put them in a starter box, and shoehorned them into the Deathwing because logically they could go anywhere else.

 

I'm ignoring the fact they're Deathwing myself. Was ambivalent at first but not now. Welcome to Close Support, Bladeguard.

[WrathOfTheLion]

Doesn't really bother me. The main thing that would bother me is if they duplicate things across the wings, such as putting aggressors or heavy intercessors or something in Deathwing. The decision was made to put gravis in the standard companies, so there it should remain. BGV have some similar characteristics to terminators, but I think visually they fit in, which was the main consideration.

Edited October 31, 2020 by WrathOfTheLion

[WARMASTER_]

I like that the Bladeguard were introduced to be honest its super old lore (2nd edition I think) that there’s power Armoured troops in the deathwing which just goes to show we shouldn’t cling to the lore being absolute or non transient.

 

For me the deathwing only exclusively wore terminator plate because it’s the best available armour to the first born marines not because it’s tradition or sacred just basic practicality, that and the fact they were actually able to outfit all of the entire first companies of the unforgiven,

 

We know it wasn’t terminator armour exclusive in the heresy

 

So the fact the Bladeguard as present makes perfect sense to me it appears to be the best arms & armour the primaris have available to them

Edited October 31, 2020 by BladeOfVengeance

[Jings]

I like that the Bladeguard were introduced to be honest its super old lore (2nd edition I think) that there’s power Armoured troops in the deathwing which just goes to show we shouldn’t cling to the lore being absolute or non transient.

 

For me the deathwing only exclusively wore terminator plate because it’s the best available armour to the first born marines not because it’s tradition or sacred just basic practicality, that and the fact they were actually able to outfit all of the entire first companies of the unforgiven,

 

We know it wasn’t terminator armour exclusive in the heresy

 

So the fact the Bladeguard as present makes perfect sense to me it appears to be the best arms & armour the primaris have available to them

 

Nah, I don't think that's it. The reason for TDA Deathwing is so they can rapidly deploy from orbit once the Ravenwing have found their target. It's not that it's the best armour, it's that it can teleport. 

 

I really don't think it would have happened if BGV weren't in the Indomitus box. With them there, it opens up debate as to why we don't have Sternguard or Vanguard vets because they essentially are the same sort of elite unit. 

[WrathOfTheLion]

They needed something for the Ultima successors, don't think it has anything to do with the box.

 

They needed to resolve how they're organized, especially with the new successor rules. Sort of a pragmatic decision there. Although I wouldn't be surprised if the Deathwings, etc. had firstborn elements and terminators, the SW book had the SW reinforcing the Wolfspear, leaving open that it may have firstborn elements now.

Edited October 31, 2020 by WrathOfTheLion

[solarisqc]

 

I like that the Bladeguard were introduced to be honest its super old lore (2nd edition I think) that there’s power Armoured troops in the deathwing which just goes to show we shouldn’t cling to the lore being absolute or non transient.

 

For me the deathwing only exclusively wore terminator plate because it’s the best available armour to the first born marines not because it’s tradition or sacred just basic practicality, that and the fact they were actually able to outfit all of the entire first companies of the unforgiven,

 

We know it wasn’t terminator armour exclusive in the heresy

 

So the fact the Bladeguard as present makes perfect sense to me it appears to be the best arms & armour the primaris have available to them

 

Nah, I don't think that's it. The reason for TDA Deathwing is so they can rapidly deploy from orbit once the Ravenwing have found their target. It's not that it's the best armour, it's that it can teleport. 

 

I really don't think it would have happened if BGV weren't in the Indomitus box. With them there, it opens up debate as to why we don't have Sternguard or Vanguard vets because they essentially are the same sort of elite unit. 

 

I can't wait for our supplement to give us some explanation on this subjet... even it i think they will not even talk about it.

 

Personaly, i think Bladeguard vet have no place in the Deathwing except if the unforgiven have found a way to include teleport beacon inside each suit and they gain teleport strike. Am not expecting much from our supplement. The new speeder are not good, squad of only 3 outrider are useless to build a primaris only ravenwing and jink don't work in melee, SW get squad of 15 bike in the SM codex, why they didn't let us have bigger outrider squad in the SM codex?

 

My only hope now is they release a Ravenwing outrider datasheet with the multipart outrider that include a Ravenwing primaris upgrade sprue. We also need a way to get robes for primaris sergent/veteran. They made the SW more viking in the supplement, How they made primaris DA special in the supplement/model is realy important for the future of our chapter in the setting and in RL.

[Chaplain Lucifer]

We are straying off topic here folks. Let's keep this on track.

[templarphoenix]

 

 

 

Dont care.

I will run firstborn ravenwing/deathwing for now, primaris are too bland for me.

I think that's an excellent point. What would any new lore in the supplement have to achieve in order to remove any Primaris blandness?

Need some chapter specific primaris sculpt.

They did this for deathguard, a pack of unique pose plague marine champion, just need some of that.

Otherwise primaris are just ultramarines in different color.

Huh, interesting train of thought. What is your opinion on the Dark Angel 3rd-9th companies? What makes them more than Ultramarines of a different color?

 

 

I am not talking about the lore, it's all about the models, even tactical squad can makes differences out there.

I like and enjoyed painting robes, dark Vengeance gives you a robed sarge, the old dark angel tactical squad box gives you a robed sarge (metal) too, I just want the same, am I asking too much?

[jaxom]

My perspective on the release of plastic Space Marine units is primarily shaped by early third edition. Lore, color, decals, and army-wide rules made a Dark Angels tactical squad different from an Ultramarines tactical squad. I have only a single purpose-made Dark Angels tactical squad that I bought to convert the sergeant into a Master. None of my sergeants have robes or tabards; I used shoulder pad markings and colors to show if they were Veteran Sergeants or Deathwing Veteran Sergeants.

 

Would some new Dark Angel specific plastic for units be nice? Sure. Do I personally find it necessary? No, though I wouldn't look askance at an updated and readily available decal transfer sheet.