North China Open - 2k

[Morticon]

Greetings all.  

 

There's a RTT coming up at the end of the month.  The last NCO i took part in, I came second.  This time round Id also like to be in the top 3.  There are a lot of top players that are unfortunately unable to make it to this tourney - but that doesnt mean that there arent any!  The competition is still likely to be strong.  

 

My biggest concern of the players I know at the moment is Death Guard - theyre in a very, very scary place at the moment - and are unbeatable toe-to-toe without a lot of tricks and synergies - i'm far far better off playing the mission.  

 

 

This is also carusing my greatest list-building headache. 

 

I'm looking at the following list:

Chaplain on Bike

Sanguinor

 

5x Tac - cmbi-melta,grav,fist

5x Tac- cmbi-melta,grav,axe

5x Aslt Inter- TH

 

5x Scouts- cmbi-melta

5x Scouts

8x VanVet - 2TH, 2PF, 8SS

 

3x Eradicators

 

3x Inceptors- Plas

2x Attack Bikes- MM

2x Attack Bikes- MM

 

Razorback - TLLC

Razorback - TLLC

Impulsor

Speeder Storm

Speeder Storm

 

 

 

However, because of the advent of the DG - Im thinking of  dropping the Impulsor Fun bunch  and  picking up 5 Incursors along with a beefed up Phobos Libby with 4 powers (Nullzone, Shrouding, Tenebrous Curse and Temporal Corridor)

 

This will help either slow the bad guys down- or remove their pesky 4++.  

 

I think on the whole the Impulsor Unit is better- and it also means that I can take Psychic Secondaries against psyker heavy lists- but, I feel its really down to playing to the toughest armies there.

What do you gents think?

[Morticon]

FYI - Chappy will likely have the upgrade as well as  Mantra, Focus, Imperium Swod WLT, and then either Armour Indom or Benediction.

 

Libby will have the upgrade and Chief Lib WLT and Tome of Malcador..

 

Sang will defs have Speed of the big winged bro 

[keeblerartillery]

Mort I honestly think you’re better off with someone not the Sanguinor. I feel like he’s simply a best stick - since his aura doesn’t stack with shock assault. I think the points are better spent on something like a chief sang priest who can auto revive your bikes or a Libby who can null zone/psychic fortress.

[Karhedron]

Without a Captain for rerolls, those Plasmaceptors look risky. I realise the 2D may be necessary to cut through the 2W Marine meta but they roll a lot of dice for a few bodies and every 1 is fatal now that Recitation of Focus no longer negates overheats.

 

I would either look at supporting them or swapping them out for something less likely to blow up in your face.

[Morticon]

some good feedback-let me have  a think!

[Jolemai]

You've been burned catering for a meta before, only to not face up against them... Best not stack towards it too far imo. Unless you expect half the field to rock up with this?  

 

Reports, playtests, etc, here too? 

[Xenith]

 

 picking up 5 Incursors along with a beefed up Phobos Libby with 4 powers (Nullzone, Shrouding, Tenebrous Curse and Temporal Corridor)

 

 

 

Bear in mind that Chief Librarian upgrade doesn't let you cast more - is the idea just to have a swiss army knife libby?

[Remtek]

If you are running Temporal Corridor what about a unit of 5 reivers? They have the phobos keyword and have a strat to stop actions & turn off obsec. Not sure if it's good but food for thought!

[Morticon]

So, a few thoughts as to the workings of this list...

 

 

 

 

 

Bear in mind that Chief Librarian upgrade doesn't let you cast more - is the idea just to have a swiss army knife libby?

 

 

Yup yup!! The libby, as you noted, cant cast all the powers- but its the combo of them when needed. SO you're spot on with the swiss army knife!

 

Shrouding on a nearby Phobos unit mean both him and the unit are protected if need be from firepower. 

 

If I need him to support with NullZone,  he can make use of what is something similar to wings in Temporal Corridor.  The range to turn off invuls is 25+d6" - a really amazing insertion range. Since he has concealed positions on top of that, its a really good combo. 

 

Corridor can also help the other phobos unit buzz about if need be to potentially cap objectives, or hit Actions. 

 

Tenebrous curse can be used on a key enemy and then corridor used to pop back into the shadows  Overall - this guy is really a tactical swiss-army knife.

 

Mort I honestly think you’re better off with someone not the Sanguinor. I feel like he’s simply a best stick - since his aura doesn’t stack with shock assault. I think the points are better spent on something like a chief sang priest who can auto revive your bikes or a Libby who can null zone/psychic fortress.

 

I agree with the second half of this, in so far as this list is begging for a priest.  With regards to the first bit though, Here are my thoughts:

 

Regarding the Sanguinor - his new ability is game changing.  Ive always maintained that any rules or units that force your opponent to play differently are worth gold.  

In this case, the ability of the Sanguinor to intervene and then leave and go wreck other stuff in the enemy lines is really, really strong - especially in a situation where the enemy gets first turn and pushes forward onto objectives. To be able to meet them halfway, then smash back into their lines is really really game changing. 

 

Sangy combos well with Phobos units since they can infiltrate up and try deploy out of cover, baiting the charge. 

 

 

 

As for the rest of the list...
 

Despite scouts being Elites and being a little meh in general, it's the Speeder Storm combo with them that really make their inclusion warranted. 18" + 3" disembark + 6" move mean far easier deployment into enemy territory - which in turn means more possibility of Actions (scramblers has become my fav) as well as EOF. 

 

The fact that the Storms can turn off overwatch on top of this is just gravy.  When not using them so suicidally, moving them on to an abojective is super annoying- because theyre not doing much besides capping- which forces the enemy to waste shots that way, and then have to deal with the occupants that get out.   Thats not to say the fragile storm and more fragile scouts are hard to deal with - just that they must be dealt with. This helps the rest of the army. 

 

The same tactic can be said with the Tactical Marines- who have gotten such a great boost.  Grav up to 30" means they can support well and its now the better take-all-comers weapon for 10 points. I think the only time its less worthwhile than a HB is when its vs higher Toughness and worse saves. 

 

The attack bikes will be a feature in every single one of my list.  Theyre too good to not be there.  

 

 

Without a Captain for rerolls, those Plasmaceptors look risky. I realise the 2D may be necessary to cut through the 2W Marine meta but they roll a lot of dice for a few bodies and every 1 is fatal now that Recitation of Focus no longer negates overheats.

I would either look at supporting them or swapping them out for something less likely to blow up in your face.

 

The Inceptors I wanted to help with heavy unit and horde control - but I totally agree about them killing themselves when i need it.  I dont think I can safely include them without a Captain - so I'll think about some restructuring that will suit. 

 

Im most concerned about DG in the tournament - the rest I feel I can play around.  That being said there will be quite a few unknowns - so I'll have to be prepped to take all comers. 

 

 

If you are running Temporal Corridor what about a unit of 5 reivers? They have the phobos keyword and have a strat to stop actions & turn off obsec. Not sure if it's good but food for thought!

I dont hate the idea. I want to try make them work.  But I'm  not sure what role theyd fill and more importantly, how theyd replace what I take out to include them. 

 

You've been burned catering for a meta before, only to not face up against them... Best not stack towards it too far imo. Unless you expect half the field to rock up with this?  

 

Reports, playtests, etc, here too? 

 

That's very, very fair comment. 
Yeah.....will defs put up my playtest and reports here...this is ..assuming i dont break and just go with a similar list but with Sallies

 

[Morticon]

Rework would look like this:

 

Sanguinor - speed

Chief Phobos Libby - +1test WLT, Tome, Nullzone, Corridor, Mind Raid, Tenebrous.

 

5x Tac - Fist, C-Melta, Grav

5x Tac - Fist, C-Melta, Grav

5x Assault Inters - TH.

 

5x Scouts - C-Melta

8x VanVets - TH, 4PF, 8SS

8x VanVets - TH, 4PF, 8SS

 

3x Eradicators

 

2x Attack Bikes- MM

2x Attack Bikes- MM

1x Attack Bikes- MM

 

Speeder Storm

Impulsor - shield

Razor - TLLC

Razor - TLHB

 

Bit reminiscent of the rodeo...

[Charlo]

Old school is best school!

 

Looks like a real 9th list, I like it!

[The Unseen]

So how does the new 9th fight ordering work with the interrupt strat and something with always fight first intervening in?

If you got charged by multiple different units, after the first enemy fights the Sanguinor fights, then could you pop the interrupt before the 2nd enemy unit swings?

[Morticon]

So how does the new 9th fight ordering work with the interrupt strat and something with always fight first intervening in?

If you got charged by multiple different units, after the first enemy fights the Sanguinor fights, then could you pop the interrupt before the 2nd enemy unit swings?

 

ALWAYS FIGHT FIRST/LAST

Some rules allow a unit from your army to always fight

first in the Fight phase, even if they didn’t make a charge

move this turn, If the enemy has units that have charged,

or that have similar rules, then alternate selecting units

to fight with from amongst these units, starting with the

player whose turn is taking place.

Similarly, some rules say that a certain unit cannot be

selected to fight in the Fight phase until after all other

eligible units have done so. If both players have units

that cannot fight until after all other units have done

so, then the players alternate selecting which of those

units to fight with, starting with the player whose turn is

taking place.

Ifa unit is under the effects of both a rule that always

lets it fight first in the Fight phase, and a rule that says it

cannot be selected to fight until after all other units have

done so, it instead fights as if neither rule is affecting it.

 

To answer your question - Im not sure !!

 

Counter offensive is used "after an enemy unit has fought this turn" - personally i would feel that that means directly after- not at some point after. This would mean you couldnt activate it after the Sanguinor.  If you had a looser interpretation of this and you took it to mean an enemy unit needs to have fought at some point prior in the phase, then...yeah...but it may be a little too gamey. 

i stand to be corrected on this, but the new Speed of Primarch wording allows us to fight even before charging units. 

 

 

[Morticon]

I think i've been playing him incorrectly - and this also means that even with Speed of the Primarch- hes still only hitting after the chargers.  To me, this means his utility is far far less- i maaay have to work my way back toward a Cappy.  

Will give it some thought. 

[Remtek]

I have been playing it as a free interupt. (SoP)

[keeblerartillery]

I think he still has value mort. Cus now the enemy has to pick between attacking him and the unit charged - which can use counterattack as well. Buuuuut it’s still debatable.

[Black_Sky]

I'm not certain you can give the phobos librarian null zone.

Tome states: "...from any discipline it as has access to."

Phobos librarians only have access to the obscuration discipline.

[Morticon]

I'm not certain you can give the phobos librarian null zone.

Tome states: "...from any discipline it as has access to."

Phobos librarians only have access to the obscuration discipline.

 

I JUST logged on to write that up - i caught it last night :/ made me sad. 

 

Oh well- some tweaks needed ! 

[Morticon]

After a lot of tweaking and toiling and playtesting, I've sadly decided not to go with BA this time round :( Unfortunately, aside from the Sanguinor one-trick and some special units in the way of the SangGuard there's nothing the BA can do at the moment that I cant replicate elsewhere :( 

 

I'll still be playing my style of things...but defs with a diff codex.

 

Here's hoping our guys get their good stuff back! 

[Xenith]

 

I'll still be playing my style of things...but defs with a diff codex.

 

Eldar?

[Karhedron]

I think i've been playing him incorrectly - and this also means that even with Speed of the Primarch- hes still only hitting after the chargers.  To me, this means his utility is far far less- i maaay have to work my way back toward a Cappy.

Maybe combine with a Whirlwind and the Suppression Fire stratagem to ensure your opponent's most dangerous unit fights last. The WW seems a pretty good unit anyway to chip away at backfield Objective campers and the like.

[Shaezus]

After a lot of tweaking and toiling and playtesting, I've sadly decided not to go with BA this time round :( Unfortunately, aside from the Sanguinor one-trick and some special units in the way of the SangGuard there's nothing the BA can do at the moment that I cant replicate elsewhere :( 

 

I'll still be playing my style of things...but defs with a diff codex.

 

Here's hoping our guys get their good stuff back!

 

So now I have a chance of winning "best in faction" for BA? if it exists haha

 

Haven't had the chance to test it yet but I'm sure null zone would go a long way to reducing that impenetrable wall of saves that DG get. A culexus would have a big impact, more so combined with null zone and Reliquary of Gathalmor. Which will happen when things get close up in the middle very quickly. -3 to psychic tests and? halve the result with D3 wounds for failing the test.

 

Even a vindicare would at least cause the DG commander to adjust his plans. If you can take down their Typhus / Biologus / other buffer guys quick then null zone will let you make short work. A double helldrake list beat the nasty DG list in ningbo recently by taking those characters out T1 or T2

[Charlo]

After a lot of tweaking and toiling and playtesting, I've sadly decided not to go with BA this time round :( Unfortunately, aside from the Sanguinor one-trick and some special units in the way of the SangGuard there's nothing the BA can do at the moment that I cant replicate elsewhere :(

 

I'll still be playing my style of things...but defs with a diff codex.

 

Here's hoping our guys get their good stuff back!

What you going with?

 

Is Red Thirst/ Savage Echoes not attractive enough?

[Morticon]

 

After a lot of tweaking and toiling and playtesting, I've sadly decided not to go with BA this time round Unfortunately, aside from the Sanguinor one-trick and some special units in the way of the SangGuard there's nothing the BA can do at the moment that I cant replicate elsewhere

 

I'll still be playing my style of things...but defs with a diff codex.

 

Here's hoping our guys get their good stuff back!

What you going with?

 

Is Red Thirst/ Savage Echoes not attractive enough?

 

 

its amazing- but its ONLY that.  Aside from our unique units  (which, Sang Guard  aside  are not that great atm), we're super super  vanilla.  There's no real additional tactical advantage that other lists dont offer or cant  reproduce. The  amount of other marine lists that can replicate the +1 to wound is just offensive

 

I made a list I really, really liked-but every time i did, when I ported the rules to another marine set it was just miles better- which irked me.  

 

I'm going with this at the moment: 

 

 

Primaris Chaplain on Bike (140) Warlord.

Master of Sanctity Upgrade.

Canticle of Hate.

Catechism of Fire.

Free Relic: Vox

Free Warlord Trait: Master Orator

Tempered by Wisdom(-1cp): Rites of War

 

Phobos Librarian:

(125)

Chief Librarian Upgrade 

Extra Trait(-1cp): Psychic Mastery

Relic(-1cp): Tome of Malcador

Powers: Tenebrous Curse, Shrouding, Temporal Corridor, Storm Wreathed.

 

5x Intercessors- Powerfist, Autobolters (110)

5x Infiltrators- helix gauntlet (130)

5x Incursors (105)

5x Incursors (105)

 

10x Vanguard Veterans (307) 4xThunder Hammers, 3x Lightning Claws,10xStormShields,10xJump Packs

 

5x Vanguard Veterans (138)- Powerfist (sergeant),1xLight ing Claw, 5x Storm Shield, 5x Jump Packs

 

5x Assault Terminators (210): 4xThunderHammer& Storm Shield, 2x Lighting Claw, Teleport homer.

 

3x  Eradicators (120)

 

5+1x Bikes+Attack Bike:(235) 2x Meltagun, 1xCombi-melta,1x Multi-melta

 

2x Attack Bikes (110): 2Multimelta

 

2x Attack Bikes (110): 2Multimelta

 

Land Speeder Storm (55)

 

 

Edited October 26, 2020 by Morticon

[Morticon]

Shaezus -  The DG player I know of will be rocking this (or at least he was last game)

 

DP with wings, claws and Iron Clot Furnace.

Chaos Lord in Termy Armour

Chaos Daemon HQ of some sort

2x Foul Blightspawn

 

 

3x4 Nurglings

2x 10 Poxwalkers

 

2x 3 Blight-Haulers

 

3x Crawlers (entropy Cannons)

Edited October 26, 2020 by Morticon