How to Combat Patrol...?

[Azekai]

Howdy folks, I am looking to get into some combat patrol games, and I am revisiting my scurrilous guard regiment. And I am realizing that I can't seem to include a whole lot of what I normally like in my IG- which is Leman Russ tanks, psykers, and ogryn, backed by infantry, of course. That is just too much to squeeze into ~500 points. I can include some ogryn OR a Russ, but target saturation seems impossible. I am considering using a pair of Carnodons thanks to their reasonable price point, or maybe sentinels?
 
Having lots of bodies (comparatively, anyway) backed by some killy armor is often the way to play guard, but getting enough bodies as well as strong ranged weapons seems to be quite the challenge. Anyone else playing at this game size?

Edited October 13, 2020 by Azekai

[Expendable_Aquanaut]

Hi Azekai. I've had the same problem. Russes and bullgryn/ogryn don't seem to fit well in this small of a game. I've found that it is still possible to bring a relatively large number of bodies though. I'd recommend a bunch of infantry squads with some special weapon squad and command squad support. All of these are cheap options and I feel that the special weapon squad can put out some decent firepower for their points cost. One thing to keep in mind - they are only 1 pl. You can outflank a bunch of them at the beginning and ditch any transport costs.

 

Psykers or other mortal wound batteries seem to be pretty good too. If there is anything big and scary on the other side of the table, there likely wont be much else. Throwing a few mortal wounds on the big bad seem to have a disproportionate effect in these smaller games. It's harder to recover from it I guess.

 

Additionally, I think scions play decently well at this level too. They have native deepstrike which lessens the need for transports and saves you points without sacrificing mobility. The hot shot volley gun is also a pretty decent all arounder for low points games when you wont see too much of anything big and scary. Also, depending on your regiment choice your hotshot lasguns can be pretty capable standard equipment. They can either be AP-3 with lambdan lions or 24inch range with iotan dragons. Either choice makes them pretty competitive at this level.

[Azekai]

Solid advice, thanks Aquanaut.

 

For psychics I was considering either a pair of Primaris or a Primaris and an Ordo Xenos inquisitor (the inquisitor acting as a poor man’s commissar).

 

I have a fair few meltas in my collection, I like the idea of popping in with outflanking special weapons teams.

 

I could take a squad of scions, but there’s the worry that even with good ap, their lasers are just going to bounce off- I am likely fighting Necrons or Khorne csm.

 

Old Grudges is a trait I have been eyeing, it seems very nice at 500 points and would let me focus down and kill any primary threat.

[WarriorFish]

I used to play a fair bit of Combat Patrol back in the day, I'm guessing it's a bit different now but the core tenets are likely the same. That is to say it's a different game at smaller points, aside from the obvious in limited points and options from that it also serves to exaggerate army strengths and weaknesses. It's a great way to get to know an army as well as get more from things that might not do so well elsewhere.

 

As Aquanaut points out Scions can shine in smaller point games where they can relatively achieve more, and have less to worry about on top. Especially if you load them to jump something you may struggle to reach otherwise (plasma blasting a character or slagging a vehicle with melta has always been a favourite trick of mine). As it's been a while and I've yet to play 9th I can't offer much more, my general advice is to focus on boys before toys :)

[Slave to Darkness]

Gonna pay close attention to this thread, not used Guard since 4th and I have no idea what I am doing atm, and still need to learn 9th. May try out some combat patrol myself to get the feel of it. 

 

Good luck with your games Azekai, get piks if you can :D 

[Azekai]

Thanks for the advice/encouragement, y'all!

I admit, I am slightly worried about the new 'cron codex. Reanimating piles of sliver and gold automatons are haunting my nightmares.

So, I have two general ideas, both rather gimmicky, I am afraid: one is psyker spam with a radical Inquisitor, 2 primaris psykers, and an astropath. They are protected by an ogryn bodyguard and a blob of conscripts, as well as a couple of infantry squads. The infantry hug cover and hang back, plinking away with heavy bolters or other long range weapons. The conscripts body block for the psykers, and the astropath casts defensive spells as necessary, allowing for 2-3 smites from the rest of the army. The inquisitor can help the infantry and especially the conscripts stick around, thanks to their high leadership aura. The body guard is there as an extra layer of defense in case of deathmarks or a tricky redeployment via the veil of night. A variant of this includes swapping a commissar with old grudges for one of the primaris psykers.

The other list was built around a tank commander and a Leman Russ conqueror (co-axial weapon rule seems fun), both with heavy bolter sponsons, supported by a squad of scions and either an astropath or a techpriest. This is not amazing at things like controlling objectives and the like, but between ace traits and tank orders, the two metal behemoths can bring a fair amount of pain.

Edited October 14, 2020 by Azekai

[ThePenitentOne]

If you like small battles, do you crusade?

 

The reason I ask is that I'm curious about your Inquisitor. One of my faves is an Ordo Malleus. With Guard as the support force rather than the Inquisition, you need to use the Arbiter of the Emperor's Will strat to give them a WL trait; good news- the strat ALSO gives an Inquisition relic. If you take the Psychic Mastery trait, you'll know smite + 2 powers, and you'll get two casts and two denies. I'd take Castigation and Warding Incantations; you can use Smite and Castigation to dish a bucket of mortal wounds, or if you've got a guard unit nearby that you want to protect, you can grant it a 5+ Invulnerable save.

 

If you really want to go over the top, you can spend another CP to also be an Alpha Class Psyker, so you'd know an extra power and get a third Deny. Now in Combat Patrol game, that's burning a lot of CP. But in a Crusade game, you'd use Requisition points to get that stuff, NOT CP.

 

Another bonus to Crusade? Ogryn Bodyguards and Nork Deddog are characters, so you can use RP to buy them WL traits too! They can also have Crusade Relics, but not Codex Relics.

 

I would love an Ogryn based Crusade army. I've always wanted to set a mini-campaign on an Ogryn world where the Imperium's recruitment and training facilities are seen as invaders by some of the more militant Ogryns. If GW ever gets around to traitor guard, I suspect a traitor Ogryn box; that would be an even better story- both the Imperium and Chaos exploiting the Ogryns, who would only see their heartless controllers as heroes, no matter how callous their actions on the battlefield.

[Expendable_Aquanaut]

I second pretty much everything that penitent said. With the exception that I'm not sure the strat for the warlord trait on an inquisitor also gives them a relic. I believe this was called out specifically somewhere in the rules as an illegal move. That said, I can't find it now so I could be wrong. Otherwise, spot on analysis.

 

As for the hot shot lasguns bouncing off of things - there are two new stratagems that help mitigate this issue. One is point blank efficacy. This ups your hotshot strength by one within half range. On iotan dragons that's 12 inches - well within deep strike distance. Additionally, if you manage to kill off one model in any unit you can pop killing floor which gives you plus one to wound against that unit with your other scions. This can be really deadly against bigger squads of necrons or high cost marines in such a small game. Your relatively cheap rifle squads are suddenly punching way above their weight class. Consider ordering frfsrf as well for 36 shots per squad. Bonus if you have the double order relic and are rerolling ones or if you took the iotan dragon warlord trait that let's you ignore cover. This is especially tough to deal with at low point levels as you cant deny deepstrike as well and cover wont save you. Just some food for thought.

 

I really like your inquisition and psyker list idea. Backed up with some big subhuman meat shields and conscripts I think it could be pretty good and fun.

[Expendable_Aquanaut]

Curious to see how this turned out. Any luck?

 

I've recently been playing around with a tank commander in some combat patrol games. He is absolutely brutal. I've just been having issues keeping my guardsmen on the table... And with the power level hike on conscripts, special weapon squads and our psykers, I've been having some trouble supporting the tank commander.

 

I'm thinking of trying out two big scion squads and a prime with a tank commander for 25pl. Ive been having some issues with custodes - some beast of a dreadnought and a captain on a bike or something. Getting through a 3up invuln and a 5up fnp has been tough. That said, a punisher Gatling cannon with the weapon expert tank ace ability and the weapon upgrade to pop mortal wounds on a 6 to hit might be my solution. Anyone tried this before or have any tips?

[Commisar Necros]

We just started a crusade at 500pts and I got a few in a with a similar list. TC, SO, Infantry squad, sentinel, quad mortar battery. The TC and quad parked on a back objective and blew anything they could away while the sentinel and infantry usualy died distracting the enemy. This relied a lot on getting secondaries as you would usually only hold one or two objectives. I tried an infantry heavy one. 6 squads, 2 officers and a sentinel and it was interesting. The masses of lasguns could clear away the orks, but against the DG they just died without heavier fire support. They couldn't even get objectives though as mowers and zombies could sweep them away. The TC is an all or nothing thing in a 500pt game, but I think the best option. Backed by some sentinels or artillery it can clear away quite a lot(I play cadia, battle cannon and HB sponsons) and with the warlord aquillia and grand strategist you can keep him supported with strats all game. A psyker could be a good addition to the list, but I usually run purge secondary as all of my opponents but admech run a lot of em.