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Whisperings that DR is being changed in the next codex.

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#1
Ishagu

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I only picked this 4th hand info up and there is literally nothing more to go with it.

Apparently Disgusting Resilience could be changing to reduce damage by 1 to a minimum of 1.
Worst against D1 weapons, obviously, but far stronger against Plasma, Heavy Bolters, etc. And it would mean less dice rolling with a mechanic you can rely on and measure.

Perhaps less fun, however.

Thoughts?
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#2
Marshal Loss

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This rumour has been swirling around for months. Also suggested by purported playtesters is that DR is changing to a flat -1 to wound. I think the latter is far more likely than the former because it would be stupid if DR only works against D2+ weapons.


Edited by Marshal Loss, 16 October 2020 - 03:54 PM.

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#3
Ishagu

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-1 to wound would be far, far too powerful and frankly stupid.

I really don't see this happening, as all infantry weapons would be basically useless, and all anti-tank weapons would only ever wound on a 4+ unless they were above Str10, and such weapons are very rare.

And if you actually stop dnd think, reducing the damage of all D2 weapons by 1 when you have an army of 2 wound models or higher is obviously very powerful, far more so than the existing rule.

Edited by Ishagu, 16 October 2020 - 04:15 PM.

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#4
Gederas

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Honestly, either of those would suck, imo as it's a massive downgrade.

 

I mean, most of the units with Disgustingly Resilient are T5 base anyways. So the -1 to wound would mostly mean bolters are now wounding on 6s.

 

And reducing damage by 1 to minimum of 1.... Big woop. That really only is relevant on things with more than 3 wounds imo


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#5
Marshal Loss

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-1 to wound would be far, far too powerful and frankly stupid.

It's better than current DR, certainly, but if you actually do the maths it's nowhere near as outlandishly powerful as you're suggesting. A quick google will help you out here.

 

 

And if you actually stop dnd think, reducing the damage of all D2 weapons by 1 when you have an army of 2 wound models or higher is obviously very powerful, far more so than the existing rule.

 

I didn't say it wouldn't be powerful though, did I? DR not coming into effect against 1D weapons would be lame because it means against a significant chunk of the game's firepower the Death Guard's legendary resilience is limited to their toughness increase.

 

DR as it currently stands works against everything. Whether you shoot a Plague Marine with a Lascannon or a nail gun, there's a chance DR will be the factor that kicks in to stop it from hurting them. That's awesome. The more widely applicable a rule, particularly in the context of an army's perk, the better it is.

 

Luckily this is an Ishagu rumour and is therefore assuredly false


Edited by Marshal Loss, 16 October 2020 - 04:24 PM.

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#6
Ishagu

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I understand that, but being two wound Marines with toughness 5 would make them very durable against the guns carried by general infantry anyways. You would need 20 shot @ Str4 with -1 AP to bring down a single Plague Marine, as an example.

And with Marines having two wounds, D2 weapons will become more and more popular.

-~Ishagu~-


#7
Marshal Loss

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You know that DR isn't a Death Guard-only rule, right? It's also a Nurgle Daemon rule. Changing one will presumably impact the other, so you need to look outside of the marine bubble. Units like Plaguebearers would be hit like a truck by something like this. It's just not a believable change.


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#8
Ishagu

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Am I suggesting the rules will be changed for all of the Nurgle factions in the same way?

-~Ishagu~-


#9
Putrid Choir

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That's how the game works. DR won't be changing. You'll see in December.

#10
Marshal Loss

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Am I suggesting the rules will be changed for all of the Nurgle factions in the same way?

What, so Nurgle Daemons are going to get a different Disgustingly Resilient to Death Guard? You know that even in Age of Sigmar all Nurgle units have Disgustingly Resilient (which works in an identical fashion both on Daemons and Mortals)?

 

DR might conceivably change but this rumour specifically can be thrown on the plastic Deredeo pile I think


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#11
Ishagu

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All I'm saying is that this info is doing the rounds, a playtester who has literally played the codex was asked about it live on stream, and he replied saying that he wouldn't be surprised if Death Guard were quite different in their next book, obviously he can't share anything concrete.

If you refuse to believe it that's perfectly fine. Doesn't change the fact that this rumour is knocking around online.

And hey, maybe you don't want the superior rule? That's fine too.

Edited by Ishagu, 16 October 2020 - 05:07 PM.

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#12
Marshal Loss

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And hey, maybe you don't want the superior rule? That's fine too.

What I want has nothing to do with it because GW don't write rules based on what I want. Just applying some common sense & logic to this rumour, something you should probably try occasionally


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#13
Ishagu

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And hey, maybe you don't want the superior rule? That's fine too.

What I want has nothing to do with it because GW don't write rules based on what I want. Just applying some common sense & logic to this rumour, something you should probably try occasionally

Alternatively a few demons in the codex might get their rules changed. It's only simple logical after all. Not much of a stretch.

You know how GW recently changed the stat lines and rules of the entire Marine codex? Maybe that skipped you by.

Edited by Ishagu, 16 October 2020 - 05:14 PM.

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#14
Marshal Loss

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And hey, maybe you don't want the superior rule? That's fine too.

What I want has nothing to do with it because GW don't write rules based on what I want. Just applying some common sense & logic to this rumour, something you should probably try occasionally

Alternatively a few demons in the codex might get their rules changed. It's only simple logical after all. Not much of a stretch.

 

A rule that has previously had universal applicability across every single Nurgle unit in both 40k and AoS being changed to have different effects on different units is not "simple logical"


Edited by Marshal Loss, 16 October 2020 - 05:15 PM.

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#15
Ishagu

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Yeah like how Repulsor vehicles all had the Grav backwash rule and they lost it?

Maybe the 1 wound Nurgle demons won't have it.

Edited by Ishagu, 16 October 2020 - 05:15 PM.

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#16
Plague _Lord

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Well... Maybe plaguebearers are going to 2w aswell...

What needs changing is inexorable advance not DR - that's fine at the mo.

Edited by Plague _Lord, 16 October 2020 - 05:25 PM.

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40k: Deathguard, Steel Legion, Word Bearers, Space wolves, Necrons

WFB: Night goblins, Empire, Dark Elves


#17
Marshal Loss

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Yeah like how Repulsor vehicles all had the Grav backwash rule and they lost it?

That's not at all the equivalent to a rule that literally stretches between game systems but I admire your persistence


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#18
Ishagu

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Oh OK, remember hammer of wrath? That was a universal rule found across many units.

It's not my rumour. If you don't like it I suggest you find the source and take it up with that individual. I wonder why it winds you up so much?

Edited by Ishagu, 16 October 2020 - 06:14 PM.

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#19
Marshal Loss

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Getting all passive aggressive and accusing the other person of being wound up when you're clearly the one losing your marbles may be the basis of a good tweet but it's not much of an argument. Literally all I'm doing is pointing out that the rumour, as presented, doesn't work in the broader context of Nurgle rules - one which crosses entire game systems & factions. You post a rule and ask for opinions on it but then wave away the potential repercussions (which are significant in scope).

 

But yes I understand why you wouldn't want to claim this as one of yours - doesn't quite have the same ring to it as plastic warhound titan/plastic deredeo/plastic breachers/gun-hand Rogal Dorn etc. Stick to your brand!

 

Anyway this is a bit silly now but you're always welcome to drop me a PM msn-wink.gif

 

For those who want to see the math with the current DR & 2 wound PMs


Edited by Marshal Loss, 16 October 2020 - 06:34 PM.

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#20
Ishagu

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Lol relax.

If it's true then the army will be stronger.
If it's not then it doesn't matter.

I first heard about it during a TT battle report, you can find it on YouTube.

If you don't want to discuss Rumours you don't have to. Stop getting yourself all worked up!

Edited by Ishagu, 16 October 2020 - 06:36 PM.

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#21
N1SB

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Thanks for keeping me in the loop of this rumour.  I really haven't been keeping track.  Then again, I'm an idiot that still calls DR Feel No Pain.

 

This rumour has been swirling around for months. Also suggested by purported playtesters is that DR is changing to a flat -1 to wound. I think the latter is far more likely than the former because it would be stupid if DR only works against D2+ weapons.

 

I totally agree that Feel No Pain DR working only against D2 weapons is ridiculous...which is unfortunate because I use a lot of Nurglings and that's technically what they got (I do know what you mean, Brother Loss, that DG don't have an advantage against D1 weapons, like we'd be more afraid of Lasguns than Plasma).  It's weird.

 

There is that pre-game Stratagem that lets DG give DR to units that don't get it normally, like Dreadnoughts.  That might be kinda cool if it reduces the D, actually.

 

But I think the Iron Hands are keeping their 6+ FNP.  So the issue is not only that, well what happens with Nurgle Daemons, but that we already have an updated Codex with Loyalist Marines where GW decided to keep the FNP.  I actually see the point of trying to cut down re-rolls, totally, but if that was the case, maybe they would've started with the Iron Hands?  I dunno.

 

I'm open to it, to streamline the game, we'll see in December, but the fact they already haven't modified the Iron Hands FNP makes me skeptical.  But interesting!


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#22
Putrid Choir

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It's not changing, and it's not better. Damage reduced by 1 to a minimum of 1 is infinitely worse than 5+++ for 1D, better for 2D, statically the same for 3D, and far worse for everything 4D and better.

As mentioned, does nothing for pox walkers and plaguebearers then, which again, even more proof it's not happening.

No thanks.
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#23
Ishagu

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It's not changing, and it's not better. Damage reduced by 1 to a minimum of 1 is infinitely worse than 5+++ for 1D, better for 2D, statically the same for 3D, and far worse for everything 4D and better.

As mentioned, does nothing for pox walkers and plaguebearers then, which again, even more proof it's not happening.

No thanks.

Very wrong. For 3 Damage it guarantees a Terminator will survive after failing a save. Apply it to units with more wounds and the guaranteed reduction is tangible.

Damage 1 weapons are often Str3/4 and having an extra wound is already doubling the survivability in many cases.

A 6 wound character wounded by 5 Power Fist attacks would suffer only 5 damage, where as under the current rules they would suffer 7 and be outright destroyed.
Against vehicles it would be equal when suffering hits from damage 3 weapons, superior against damage 2, but less effective if dealing with dedicated anti-tank that deals closer to 6.

If this change is true, it's a massive boost in durability in many practical examples.

Edited by Ishagu, 17 October 2020 - 01:20 AM.

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#24
Marshal Valkenhayn

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It's not changing, and it's not better. Damage reduced by 1 to a minimum of 1 is infinitely worse than 5+++ for 1D, better for 2D, statically the same for 3D, and far worse for everything 4D and better.

As mentioned, does nothing for pox walkers and plaguebearers then, which again, even more proof it's not happening.

No thanks.


Very wrong. For 3 Damage it guarantees a Terminator will survive after failing a save. Apply it to units with more wounds and the guaranteed reduction is tangible.

Damage 1 weapons are often Str3/4 and having an extra wound is already doubling the survivability in many cases.

A 6 wound character wounded by 5 Power Fist attacks would suffer only 5 damage, where as under the current rules they would suffer 7 and be outright destroyed.
Now apply it to a vehicle - you would have to use attacks that deal 6 flat damage for this rule to be worse. It would be mathematically equal against attacks that deal 5 damage, and superior against anything lower down to 2.

If this change is true, it's a massive boost in durability in most practical examples.

 

 

Putrid's math is correct. Some of yours is not. You should probably avoid arguing mathematics if you don't know what your talking about.


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#25
Ishagu

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Fixed my post, no need to be rude.

One bonus from this potential change is rolling less dice, and less reliability on luck.

Either way I'm out. If you guys don't want to hear rumours then avoid topics about them!

Edited by Ishagu, 17 October 2020 - 01:24 AM.

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