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Possible changes in the new codex.

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#551
techsoldaten

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I intensely dislike having my army composition dictated to me, especially as part of a chaos faction. My madmen and mutants have to have carefully tabulated ratios of marines to zombies? Give me a break.

and people saying ‘limits on poxwalkers is fluffy’ are just plain wrong. If a planet is in the late stage throes of a Death Guard invasion, how many millions may be walking dead? I doubt people would spam poxwalkers anyway (they can’t take actions) but gw going so far out of their way as to hardcode limits into the rules of the faction feels patronizing and insulting. I want to field what I want in my army, not what Gw thinks my army should look like.

 

Your list composition is not dictated to you.

 

If you want 160 Poxwalkers, play a non-battleforged army.

 

That would be more consistent with the idea of a worldwide zombie plague, as tactics / coherent leadership would go out the window after hitting critical mass.

 

 

I don't like sorcs or pure psykers. Now we literally have to take one in a battalion detachment. The decision to limit DP to one per detachment as well as making them count as a lord of chaos means you can't a DP and Typhus or a LoC or anything else. Your only option is a sorc. I always ran my DG with either DP and Typhus or LoC or two DP. It wasn't chasing meta. It was simply my fluff and lore for my army.

 

Now I have no choice but to take a freaking sorc. It is a frankly idiotic decision that unfairly restricts player choice. We aren't a faction like CSM that has a dozen or more HQ choices that we can something else to take. You LITERALLY have to take a sorc. Unless you want to lose CP for no reason by taking several detachments...which no one with a brain would do.

 

I'm not a fan of the Lord of Chaos restriction, but it's consistent with how HQ units are treated in 9th edition. Space Marines can't take a captain and a lieutenant, the supreme command detachment is very limited by comparison, and Death Guard can't have Typhus and a Daemon Prince in the same detachment.

 

I'm personally okay with it so long as other factions have a similar restriction.

 

 

DG nerfed to the grave. Just cry of my heart. 

 

This is an insane take. They are going to be incredible, especially the meat and potatoes of the army.

 

I did not read the original as anything but an attempt at humor.



#552
Iron Sage

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Yep, depending how you look at it it’s not a buff though. Before you could take 5 man sqauds with a plasma gun and 2 BL/Plasma Guns...so yea, DG actually lost a plasma gun. However you now have 10 spare wounds to chew through before they can get to the special weapons

Yes, MSU nerfed, that is true. But 10 man squad significantly boosted. Plague Marines will play differently. I think you will see many units with just stock standard bolters and no upgrades, and strong upgraded 10 man squads.There is still room for MSU, but you can't give them much bite with uniform upgrades. A significant change for sure and I can understand why you don't like it. Personally, I want to try out some variations of the 10 man squads though, and run odd numbered Plague Marine squads with just bolters.

 

However, even if they are different weapons, you can still give a MSU squad 2 plasma and then just chuck in a blight launcher, which is arguably a better weapon anyway. In that case, you don't lose much at all, just got to roll different dice. So if you are willing to have a different weapon load out, it is not a big change in utility. Even so, I suspect many will still take marines with no upgrades in small squads, but the 2 plasma + blight launcher seems like a decent enough option on paper.

 

Edited my post because I realised that it's not really a significant nerf when it comes to MSU at all, as you can take 2 plasma and a blight launcher.


Edited by Iron Sage, 19 January 2021 - 01:37 PM.


#553
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Gotten down to list building and am finding it hard to include any vechicles. I'm starting to think that maybe 10 blightlords and 6 deathshroud might be a solid core to build around and go full infantry.

 

On the other hand all of our long range AT firepower is on tanks...

 

The limitation on taking lords is tough to manage... I loved my DP with the old codex, but I sort of want to have a lord of contagion drop with my deathshroud to enhance their aura. Basically that's -2CP from the get go to take both...


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#554
McElMcNinja

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That looks right Verbal and I am a fan of the Spewers. Now that they have 12” range, they are great for overwatch. With the right character support, no one will want to come close to them. And with CoF no one can shoot them, how is someone suppose to deal with a unit like that?

I am glad for the new rule that allows 3 elites to take 1 slot. I was having issues getting everything I wanted in my list and after the points update I had an average 120 points more to spend in those characters. With the updated bodyguard rule, it’s even easier to protect all those characters, as a bonus Deathshroud are so much better then they were.

After playing multiple games my one and only complaint is that this dex was delayed. I’ve ran Morty in about 1/3 of those games and at first he seemed too good. We found ways of dealing with him and after a few weeks people will be ok with him to a degree. SM players will probably complain the most as DG are the perfect counter to them (with or without Morty).
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#555
Iron Sage

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Gotten down to list building and am finding it hard to include any vechicles. I'm starting to think that maybe 10 blightlords and 6 deathshroud might be a solid core to build around and go full infantry.

 

On the other hand all of our long range AT firepower is on tanks...

 

The limitation on taking lords is tough to manage... I loved my DP with the old codex, but I sort of want to have a lord of contagion drop with my deathshroud to enhance their aura. Basically that's -2CP from the get go to take both...

I find the same. Was trying to build 2-3 lists yesterday, but had real problems finding space to tanks as I kind of auto included Mortarion and 10 blightlords as well as a LOC and that's a lot of points before troops ! Because let's face it, you want to include some of the Foetid Virion for buffs, or I do anyway. And then there isn't points left after troops.



#556
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Awesome, plague marines units are really compelling - two (or three specials) and two heavy in a ten man unit. A couple of ten model units will look great on the battlefield - legion strength. 

 

I can see why some folks will chafe at the "loss" of MSU though. I feel like a third, bare bones MSU for the secondary objective will be worthwhile, just in a different way now.



#557
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Gotten down to list building and am finding it hard to include any vechicles. I'm starting to think that maybe 10 blightlords and 6 deathshroud might be a solid core to build around and go full infantry.

 

On the other hand all of our long range AT firepower is on tanks...

 

The limitation on taking lords is tough to manage... I loved my DP with the old codex, but I sort of want to have a lord of contagion drop with my deathshroud to enhance their aura. Basically that's -2CP from the get go to take both...

 

This is one of the reasons I hate the new restrictions on weapons in a squad. My BL termies had a flail, reaper autocannon and 3 axe/combi plasma. Now I have to lose the combi plasma on two of the three guys. We don't get Havoks so our PM and BL have to double duty as heavy weapon squads. Losing the extra combi plasma removes the BL ability to be an effective AT unit. 

 

Don't tell me they can charge and take out tanks. We get nothing to help on the charge so no one can rely on 9 inch charges to take out tanks. 

 

FW dreads? All were nerfed to obsolescence. Our AT options are Morty and entropy cannons on PBC. MBH aren't worth taking with the forty percent price hike. Losing the weapon options to have some extra ways to counter vehicles hurts.


Awesome, plague marines units are really compelling - two (or three specials) and two heavy in a ten man unit. A couple of ten model units will look great on the battlefield - legion strength. 

 

I can see why some folks will chafe at the "loss" of MSU though. I feel like a third, bare bones MSU for the secondary objective will be worthwhile, just in a different way now.

 

You know any squad over 6 will be subjected to Blast rules.


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#558
Marshal Loss

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Other than the PBC (taking a single one just to take advantage of Disgusting Force seems like a good idea to me) and Fleshmower-equipped Bloat Drones, infantry over tanks all day every day. Our vehicles have been significantly impacted by the changes to DR and all of our infantry and characters are priced to move.

 

Suits me perfectly, I've always been a Terminator man above all else


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#559
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I don't like sorcs or pure psykers. Now we literally have to take one in a battalion detachment. The decision to limit DP to one per detachment as well as making them count as a lord of chaos means you can't a DP and Typhus or a LoC or anything else. Your only option is a sorc. I always ran my DG with either DP and Typhus or LoC or two DP. It wasn't chasing meta. It was simply my fluff and lore for my army.

 

Now I have no choice but to take a freaking sorc. It is a frankly idiotic decision that unfairly restricts player choice. We aren't a faction like CSM that has a dozen or more HQ choices that we can something else to take. You LITERALLY have to take a sorc. Unless you want to lose CP for no reason by taking several detachments...which no one with a brain would do.

 

I'm not a fan of the Lord of Chaos restriction, but it's consistent with how HQ units are treated in 9th edition. Space Marines can't take a captain and a lieutenant, the supreme command detachment is very limited by comparison, and Death Guard can't have Typhus and a Daemon Prince in the same detachment.

 

 

The Death Guard Codex is super restrictive on HQ units. Infernal Jealousy gives you a max of three HQ's, a "Lord" character and two psykers to choose from. Space Marines have Captains (one of), Lieutenants (two of), Librarian, Chaplain and a Techmarine all of which come in Primaris and First born options.

 

It would have been nice to have some Lieutenant level options (Aspiring Champions) to at least give some options.


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#560
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Other than the PBC (taking a single one just to take advantage of Disgusting Force seems like a good idea to me) and Fleshmower-equipped Bloat Drones, infantry over tanks all day every day. Our vehicles have been significantly impacted by the changes to DR and all of our infantry and characters are priced to move.

 

Suits me perfectly, I've always been a Terminator man above all else

 

But those terminators and infantry aren't anti tank and now are severely restricted in weapon options. We already had problems with anti tank in 8th and those problems are magnified in 9th with this codex.


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#561
Marshal Loss

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Other than the PBC (taking a single one just to take advantage of Disgusting Force seems like a good idea to me) and Fleshmower-equipped Bloat Drones, infantry over tanks all day every day. Our vehicles have been significantly impacted by the changes to DR and all of our infantry and characters are priced to move.

 

Suits me perfectly, I've always been a Terminator man above all else

 

But those terminators and infantry aren't anti tank and now are severely restricted in weapon options. We already had problems with anti tank in 8th and those problems are magnified in 9th with this codex.

 

To be honest I don't think enemy armour is much of a factor in stopping us from winning games in 9th edition.


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#562
jgascoine011

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Hmm interesting? Just how are you planning on dealing with tripple decimators with soul burners, backed up by 2 disco lords and 2 defilers all with a 4++ and exploding 6’s? Or 5 Castilian robots? Or pretty much any big thing that pumps out a bunch of MW
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#563
Balerion84

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So what's the reasoning behind giving us Inexorable Advance and then only giving it to Helbrutes and Land Raiders? I just found out... At least those 3 MBHs I bought after PA were cheap... and the 1 PBC can still be nice. Should've bought those Blightlords. Too late now, they'll have to wait some time for the budget to allow them.

#564
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Hmm interesting? Just how are you planning on dealing with tripple decimators with soul burners, backed up by 2 disco lords and 2 defilers all with a 4++ and exploding 6’s? Or 5 Castilian robots? Or pretty much any big thing that pumps out a bunch of MW

You do know those aren't even the kinds of lists winning tournaments at the moment, right? Being able to take on things like Necron obsec Scarab spam or Daemon players with triple KoS and/or an unkillable Lord of Change are far more pressing issues. 9th isn't 8th.


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#565
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Other than the PBC (taking a single one just to take advantage of Disgusting Force seems like a good idea to me) and Fleshmower-equipped Bloat Drones, infantry over tanks all day every day. Our vehicles have been significantly impacted by the changes to DR and all of our infantry and characters are priced to move.

 

Suits me perfectly, I've always been a Terminator man above all else

 

But those terminators and infantry aren't anti tank and now are severely restricted in weapon options. We already had problems with anti tank in 8th and those problems are magnified in 9th with this codex.

 

To be honest I don't think enemy armour is much of a factor in stopping us from winning games in 9th edition.

 

 

I don't know how to respond to that kind of thinking. I don't know what opponents you play against but staring across at 3 Redemptor Dreads, Invictor Warsuits and Castellan robots as well as Sister of Battle tanks and Necron vehicles I absolutely have to factor in how to stop them in order to win games. If you are only facing infantry only lists in your local gaming more power to you.


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#566
Marshal Loss

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Other than the PBC (taking a single one just to take advantage of Disgusting Force seems like a good idea to me) and Fleshmower-equipped Bloat Drones, infantry over tanks all day every day. Our vehicles have been significantly impacted by the changes to DR and all of our infantry and characters are priced to move.

 

Suits me perfectly, I've always been a Terminator man above all else

 

But those terminators and infantry aren't anti tank and now are severely restricted in weapon options. We already had problems with anti tank in 8th and those problems are magnified in 9th with this codex.

 

To be honest I don't think enemy armour is much of a factor in stopping us from winning games in 9th edition.

 

 

I don't know how to respond to that kind of thinking. I don't know what opponents you play against but staring across at 3 Redemptor Dreads, Invictor Warsuits and Castellan robots as well as Sister of Battle tanks and Necron vehicles I absolutely have to factor in how to stop them in order to win games. If you are only facing infantry only lists in your local gaming more power to you.

 

 

I mean, and I don't say this as an insult because I'm no pro player myself, but you're the one coming from the scene where people are afraid to play against the new Mortarion, so your own group can't exactly be rock-hard hyper-competitive...? You missed the point, by saying they're not much of a factor in whether we win games or not I mean enemy armour isn't whats defining the meta/dictating who wins games at the moment. Individual mileage will obviously vary depending on your local meta, but 9th definitely isn't the edition of "kill them all" and certainly is not a game of scissors paper rock. This is a very powerful book, and we have the tools to either deal with or play around all of the units you described.

 

Not seeing much validity to most of the negativity around the place at the moment. Let the book digest before rendering judgement.


Edited by Marshal Loss, 19 January 2021 - 06:14 PM.

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#567
McElMcNinja

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I played (using our new rules) against a scion army who brought 4 Taurox Primes and 3 Valkyries. My vehicles were 2 drones, a mower and a HBL. While not any of those things you listed, I did manage to destroy all of them except a TP.
Played against SW with 3 razorbacks and 2 dreads, killed all but a dread, but I was close.
Playing against Necrons and their only vehicle was a barge and he had the SK. With all his warriors and scarabs, much more dangerous to my army then the others I have faced.

I have seen what the PBC can do now, thinking of picking 1 or 2 up. I just don’t think they are necessary to win games that are based on holding objectives instead of killing things like before.
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#568
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I played (using our new rules) against a scion army who brought 4 Taurox Primes and 3 Valkyries. My vehicles were 2 drones, a mower and a HBL. While not any of those things you listed, I did manage to destroy all of them except a TP.
Played against SW with 3 razorbacks and 2 dreads, killed all but a dread, but I was close.
Playing against Necrons and their only vehicle was a barge and he had the SK. With all his warriors and scarabs, much more dangerous to my army then the others I have faced.

Yeah this is exactly what I'm talking about. We've got the tools to get the job done. I'm far more worried about stuff like Necron obsec spam than enemy heavy armour

 

Curious what else you ran? Any good performers/MVPs?


Edited by Marshal Loss, 19 January 2021 - 06:21 PM.

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#569
McElMcNinja

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My MVP was DP w/wings and relic sword. I didn’t get a chance to use the mower as people know what they can do and tend to target it first, so it would be the runner up. After that’s it’s just infantry; 2 units of 5 Blightlords, a unit of 3 Deathshroud, a unit of 10 PMs, 2x20 Poxwalkers, and a few characters.

And if people really are struggling with vehicle heavy armies, maybe it’s lack of good terrain. I don’t think we go over board, a couple of obscuring near the middle, some ruins, either craters or woods, and some crates. We roll for mission, place objectives, then terrain, once we agree on the layout, we game.

Edit: I will try and get some pictures up of a few of the games. I just struggle with that part as I don’t have a good place to hold pictures.

Edited by McElMcNinja, 19 January 2021 - 06:55 PM.

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#570
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Other than the PBC (taking a single one just to take advantage of Disgusting Force seems like a good idea to me) and Fleshmower-equipped Bloat Drones, infantry over tanks all day every day. Our vehicles have been significantly impacted by the changes to DR and all of our infantry and characters are priced to move.

 

Suits me perfectly, I've always been a Terminator man above all else

 

But those terminators and infantry aren't anti tank and now are severely restricted in weapon options. We already had problems with anti tank in 8th and those problems are magnified in 9th with this codex.

 

To be honest I don't think enemy armour is much of a factor in stopping us from winning games in 9th edition.

 

 

I don't know how to respond to that kind of thinking. I don't know what opponents you play against but staring across at 3 Redemptor Dreads, Invictor Warsuits and Castellan robots as well as Sister of Battle tanks and Necron vehicles I absolutely have to factor in how to stop them in order to win games. If you are only facing infantry only lists in your local gaming more power to you.

 

 

I mean, and I don't say this as an insult because I'm no pro player myself, but you're the one coming from the scene where people are afraid to play against the new Mortarion, so your own group can't exactly be rock-hard hyper-competitive...? You missed the point, by saying they're not much of a factor in whether we win games or not I mean enemy armour isn't whats defining the meta/dictating who wins games at the moment. Individual mileage will obviously vary depending on your local meta, but 9th definitely isn't the edition of "kill them all" and certainly is not a game of scissors paper rock. This is a very powerful book, and we have the tools to either deal with or play around all of the units you described.

 

Not seeing much validity to most of the negativity around the place at the moment. Let the book digest before rendering judgement.

 

 

I am not taking it as insulting. I possess the capacity to disagree with someone and not take it personally which seems to be a lost art on the internet lol.

 

Yes, 9th emphasizes board control and obj secured. It also leaves plenty of room for the other guy's vehicles to run over your troops and shoot them off the board unless you can stop them. It sounds like you don't even attempt to put vehicles or anti vehicles in your lists? I also am not trying to be insulting just curious.

 

My local meta is usually "power fluff" meaning we take hard hitting lists that we usually discuss before hand so no one brought say 9 vehicles and the other guy has nothing but infantry. It is rarely top tier competitive but I would definitely say it is competitive but fluffy. I try  not to just assume my local meta is how the entire army or game at large should be or is being played though to be fair.


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#571
Irate Khornate

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Depending on that infantry those vehicles are going to get shredded. I can easily see a unit or two of Deathshroud and Mortarion taking the roles of anti tank in lists. Or just Morty/Deathshroud by themselves.
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#572
jgascoine011

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Hmm interesting? Just how are you planning on dealing with tripple decimators with soul burners, backed up by 2 disco lords and 2 defilers all with a 4++ and exploding 6’s? Or 5 Castilian robots? Or pretty much any big thing that pumps out a bunch of MW

You do know those aren't even the kinds of lists winning tournaments at the moment, right? Being able to take on things like Necron obsec Scarab spam or Daemon players with triple KoS and/or an unkillable Lord of Change are far more pressing issues. 9th isn't 8th.

 

So all you have said is that DG cant be a non tournament winning list then lol.

You do realise that the decimators kill morty in 1 round of shooting not to mention any terminators etc with an average of around 28 mortal wounds + whatever damage the defilers disco lords and daemon prince can do.


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#573
jgascoine011

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My MVP was DP w/wings and relic sword. I didn’t get a chance to use the mower as people know what they can do and tend to target it first, so it would be the runner up. After that’s it’s just infantry; 2 units of 5 Blightlords, a unit of 3 Deathshroud, a unit of 10 PMs, 2x20 Poxwalkers, and a few characters.

And if people really are struggling with vehicle heavy armies, maybe it’s lack of good terrain. I don’t think we go over board, a couple of obscuring near the middle, some ruins, either craters or woods, and some crates. We roll for mission, place objectives, then terrain, once we agree on the layout, we game.

Edit: I will try and get some pictures up of a few of the games. I just struggle with that part as I don’t have a good place to hold pictures.

 

Why the relic sword? It seems kind of pointless

A daemon prince with double talons and the AP pathogen makes him 8A S8 AP-2 D2, you loose a point of AP and plague weapon but you are either running Innoxerable or Mortarions Anvil, the only two decent ones, so you are either AP-3 or AP-2 but with re-roll to hit and wound while also preventing re-rolls etc



#574
McElMcNinja

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All this talk makes me wish we all could game together. Maybe my lists aren’t perfect or even good. The only way to get better is to play the kind of lists you are talking about.
The best part of the tournaments I play is when I go up against someone I’ve played before and we’ve both tweaked our lists. Like I’ve played the same knight player and he’s beat me 2 of 3 times while the same guard player I’ve beat 2 of 3 times. Sure I’m never at the top tables, but I don’t play the meta game. I go to have fun and play more people then the 4 I usually play against.
If anyone ever wants to play on simulator let me know, while not as fun, still like to get games in.
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#575
McElMcNinja

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The sword is a plague weapon while talons aren’t, I like the re-rolls and flat 3 damage. Lots of things (besides us) have a FNP or multiple wounds, like vehicles, and I use him to hunt them down.
Also anything over AP -2 seems pointless as most invulnerable saves are 5++.

Edited by McElMcNinja, 19 January 2021 - 10:45 PM.






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