A question about Vanguard Marines and Crimson Fists

[Brother Pablo]

I read Rynne's World about a month or so back and I noticed that there were Vanguard Veterans in the Crimson Fists during the WAAAG.  That suprised me as I recall Vanguard Veterans were not mentioned that much if at all in other references on the chapter.  Same thing with pictures that I saw on them.  The closest thing that I could see that may be Vanguard Vets was on the back of the 5th edition codes where you have five marines with chainswords.  But are they a unit of Vanguards, Assault Marines, or a bunch of Sargent's?  I guess that I assumed that Vanguard Veterans were a unit that was discontinued by the chapter, if that is even a thing.(Not popular enough of a skill set to field squads?)  I know that game play Pedro gives a bump to Sternguard Veterans so it is wiser to field Sternguard instead, however given what I read in the book, I have to ask someone who knows the lore of Crimson Fists better than me.  Did the Crimson Fists ever have Vanguard Veterans as a regular veteran unit?  

 

[Brother Tyler]

Vanguard Veterans were introduced in the 5th edition Codex: Space Marines. Prior to that, no one had Vanguard Veterans, including the Crimson Fists, because Vanguard Veterans weren't a thing. Once Vanguard Veterans were introduced, they were retroactively included in all Chapters, including the Crimson Fists, presumably back to the 2nd Founding and the implementation of the Codex Astartes.

 

Rynn's World was published in 2010, after Vanguard Veterans were introduced, so it makes sense that Vanguard Veterans were included in that story.

 

In the aftermath of Rynn's World, many players focused on the high number of Scouts in the Chapter as the Crimson Fists sought to rebuild their depleted ranks. Those battle-brothers that survived the Battle for Rynn's World were often of veteran status. The Vanguard Veterans probably weren't discontinued. It's more likely that the Chapter focused on the guerilla warfare that was demanded in that watershed event. As the Crimson Fists grew in number, it seems likely that they would have filled various roles as soon as they had sufficient strength to do so. After all, the Crimson Fists are notably adherent to the Codex Astartes.

[Brother Pablo]

I forgot about that, good call.  You are right that anything before the 5th edition would just call 1st company marines out of Terminator armor as simply veterans, so any mention of Vanguard Veterans would be missing.  I started playing and collecting in the 5th edition, but while I don't have any first hand experience, I do have some of the books from the 4th.  I do notice that you can make de-facto Vanguard Veterans in the 4th, just that they don't have jet packs.  

[Zustiur]

Back in the day, they were just called veteran assault squad and veteran tactical squads. None of this Stern and van nonsense.

*Shakes walking stick*

[Brother Pablo]

As an update, in the 4th ed book you have a picture of a combat squad of apparently veteran assault marines.  You can tell that by one having a veteran cross on the right poltroon, and specifically not an assault marking.  So my conclusion is that yes, Crimson Fists do have Assault/Vanguard Veterans in the line-up.  As stated before it is a little counter intuitive to have them, as the fluff for the Crimson Fists has Sternguard as the go to unit for elite units.   

 

Why this has come up for me is that one of the things that I am trying to model is the more faster attack elements for Crimson Fists in my army.  I already have assault marines, scout bikes, and land speeders.  From there is where I was a little stumped.  I may go for a few more bikes later on down the line, but I am now planning on Vanguard Marines to add to the fray.  

Edited October 28, 2020 by Brother Pablo