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How to decide on reserves?


Weltbild

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Greetings, fellow warriors of Titan!

 

Having played only a couple of games with Grey Knights so far and being a great fan of Terminators for our troops choices, I unfortunately had to suffer utter defeats due to keeping ~40% of my force in reserves for deepstriking.

 

When going second (I suck at roll-offs), this leaves my opponent to pummel my remaining army for two turns until reinforcements arrive whilst I feel my own damage output to be severely lacking.

 

How do you decide on the appropriate amount of reserves? This depends on multiple factors such as army composition, opponent, mission and secondaries of course, but are there any guides available or any rules of thumb?

 

What does your experience tell you?

Edited by Weltbild
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While not a GK player, I look at reserves as functions of protection and mobility (RG successor here).  I've got nearly 40% of my points into reserve usually too.  Anything that can natively deepstrike for free goes in, and then from a protection perspective, I use the RG strategem to put upwards of two of my key units into reserve to keep them from getting drilled off of the board turn 1.  This depends alot on the terrain.

 

In player placed terrain matches, some players are often trying to reduce mid field terrain because they are heavy on the shooting (IG gun lines, Admech etc), so that protection issue comes up alot.

 

My only rule of thumb is native guys yes, CP costing units are decided based on the ability to hide key units well enough on turn 1 (or to protect them from things like full payload manticores with rerolls etc).

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I've recently suffered this too. And after the harsh sting of losing, I'm yet to come up with a viable way to have some reserves.

 

As GK usually field less units then their opponent, and each of our units are relatively expensive. GK units need to be doing work from turn 1. some psychic and shooting at least.

Turn 2, all 3 phases need to be utilised.

 

Not going 1st, also is a major disappoint for me, as I like to eliminate at least 1 whole unit to reduce the amount of return firepower that comes back. Not going 1st, and then having reserves really is a feels bad. This happened to me on the weekend, on my 2nd turn I resigned. I simply didn't have enough to compete. I'd lost 2 units. But it was the fact, that turn 1 I sat back and tried to hide, for fear of being shot to pieces until more targets arrived. Therefore, I didn't secure board control and got no VP.

 

I took a big gamble with the strategy I was going for, and ultimately it didn't work out.

 

The lesson I learnt for that, In small matches when I naturally field less units, I don't think I'll reserve the 40% going forward, its just too much.

I also need to improve my use of terrain, and I'm still getting used to the terrain rules with LoS blocking terrain, even if they have windows! Which, in the heat of battle I glossed over.

Edited by Reskin
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Reserves limit your early game capability and leave you vulnerable to zoning. Unless you have a solid plan with an elite army you can find yourself teleporting into your own deployment zone just to get your models on the map. The map is much smaller than it was in 8th.
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It really depends on the mission, terrain, who/what you're facing, what you've brought along. I generally like to keep Strike Squads in reserve, they're quite squishy and need to get in close to do any real work - not going to happen if they're footing it up the board. Plus, an early game Gate seems wasted on a 100-point, 5-man squad of (albeit badass) power armored marines.

 

Thats 3 units for a total of 300 points, meaning I'be still got a good portion of my damage output on the board to start. Things like Terminators, Paladins and Dreadknights of both varieties can withstand a suprising ammount of damage when used in conjunction with the right terrain and stratagems, even if you are going second.

 

I feel its rarely needed to spend CP on setting up units that don't have it inherently in reserves. Most things that require the strat (VenDreads, Purgators, Interceptors) either benefit from starting on the board to maximise their shooting on turn 1, or in the Interceptor's case, have their own way of re-deploying after deployment.

 

Grey Knights have tons of ways of manipulating range, line of sight and resilience while having a great mobility toolbox (Edict, Gate, Interceptors + Teleportation Boost). Use these to protect and set up your units as needed on the first turn, with a few units in reserve to capitalize on board control mid-game.

 

That being said, another way to use reserves is with a melee-centric force built around a Warlord with First to the Fray. Be careful to balance it with an efficient way of destroying screens on Turn 1, or a canny player will simply screen you out and delete your combat units before you can charge anything important.

 

Drago, I find, is a cheeky one to place in reserves. He can be equipped with both offensive Sanctic powers to be used as a mortal wound threat, and by keeping him back you can direct his re-roll's where they're needed the most.

 

A bit of a long response, but hopefully I've covered a few angles - mainly the balance between DS and using movement to get the most out of your units. Hopefully it helps, good luck to you!

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Thanks for your responses, everyone!

 

Then if I get this right, the key takeaways are:

- dedicate reserves to a clear role on the battlefield

- or hide units in reserves to ensure survival

- use reserves in smaller percentage depending on opponent (this proved crucial vs Drukhari who got all their guns in range on the first turn and slaughtered me)

- better assess terrain and perhaps propagate more LoS blocking terrain in casual play

- better protect my units but have a plan on how to get them to objectives on turn 1 (this basically calls for interceptors as we only get one Gate of Infinity per turn?)

 

Especially the last point seems no easy feat. On the one hand we rely on deepstrike as our means of strategic placement to compensate for lack of mobility besides Gate and Edict. But put too much into reserve and roll to go second, you risk getting shot off the table before reinforcements arrive (at least without the 3rd wound on Termies yet).

 

Edit: Going with Gnomeo‘s and The Woodsman‘s posts in the ‚Unit of the week‘-thread, a 10-man Interceptor bomb accompanied by a gated GMNDK to annihilate as much as possible might give the opponent something to chew at until we can deepstrike.

Edited by Weltbild
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Greetings, fellow warriors of Titan!

 

Having played only a couple of games with Grey Knights so far and being a great fan of Terminators for our troops choices, I unfortunately had to suffer utter defeats due to keeping ~40% of my force in reserves for deepstriking.

 

When going second (I suck at roll-offs), this leaves my opponent to pummel my remaining army for two turns until reinforcements arrive whilst I feel my own damage output to be severely lacking.

 

How do you decide on the appropriate amount of reserves? This depends on multiple factors such as army composition, opponent, mission and secondaries of course, but are there any guides available or any rules of thumb?

 

What does your experience tell you?

 

Welcome to the Hallowed Halls of Titan, neophyte! Always nice to have new neophytes joining our cause :)

 

With reserves, my experience is this - if it's against a shooty focused army (such as Drukhari, Dark Angels, Ultras), then I'd put my 10m terminator squad in deep-strike. Usually when I do this, I take secondaries such as Linebreaker to get the most out of it. Turn 2, I'd march them (either with edict or charging) to a back point of the opponent, put them in obscuring terrain (with shadows), dump about 4 CP on redoubtable defense/transhuman (on top of Sanctuary), and they are perfectly happy sitting there. I don't run 5m strikes or 5m terminators as a general rule - they die too quickly, and you will feel the pain of losing said models keenly. The only reason I'd have a 5m strike squad is whether I'd want that squad to get the most out of Gate of Infinity and not seen by the opponent. That idea aside, I either go 10m strikes or 10m terminators for that reasons. 

 

If the army I'm up against is melee focused, then I generally leave most of it on the board (behind cover, obviously), and pop the shadow tide (if I feel the melee onslaught isn't going to be enough). Otherwise, tide of fury from the start and burn CP as need be. In about 90% of my lists I have an Apothecary/Ancient or Kaldor and those would be there in deep-strike as a portable amplifier for whatever squad needs the most attention. So things that amplify your melee potential (i.e. generally characters) in said melee match ups, in deep-strike.

 

Hope to see more of you soon!

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Welcome brother. As you have pointed out reserves are both a strength and a weakness. When I start to think about them I assume I will lose 1st turn and be going 2nd. As a result I dont like having too many as your opponent has 2 turns to screen them out. Last thing you want is to have units teleport in to your own deployment zone. However what I do like reserves for is support elements. Did you gate unit of paladins up the board turn 1. And turn 2 you want to gate some terminators on to an objective fine. Have your apothecary in deepstrike. He can go and support the paladins without using up a gate. I also like a single 5man unit of strike squads small foot print reasonably cheap for GK you can do the 3" deepsrrike strat in to the enemy line and start repair teleport homers.

 

If it helps I probably only have 20% in deep strike at the most

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