Trajectory of the Black Books

[b1soul]

Would it make more commercial sense for FW to rush to the Siege after Crusade?

 

Or would it be more profit-maximising to continue fleshing out the Horus Heresy step by step (as they've been doing so well) despite Black Library's wrapping up of the Siege of Terra series?

 

Which approach is more likely based on any info or analysis available to you guys?

 

Malevolence had me worried when it said at the end of the WS section that the legion's movements were little known between Chondax and the Siege, seemingly glossing over the time between Scars and PoH in a few sentences. Maybe they'll only gloss over the WS like that...who knows? But not a good sign, I think.

[Imren]

The only new "faction" left to do is dark mechanicum, But the biziniz-managers of GW/FW would probabably demand the design studio to squeeze the lucrative fancy-book sales by having the churn out more black books with a diversity of new campaigns, stories, knight-houses, solar aux factions, updates on older legions etc. The black books is a definitive gold-cow, so many are collecting them and will not stop so they are an instant cash grab for GW.

[Taliesin]

I can only say what I would like, which is that I would like for them to finish Book 10 which is quite possibly the Mechanicum book, and once that is finished, move on to Siege of Terra. That has my preference because I am very keen for the FW Black Books to start on the Siege. And at the pace they are being released, if they have even more stuff in between book 10 and the Siege of Terra volumes, its just taking an eternity.

[WrathOfTheLion]

We haven't covered major pieces, like the Shadow Crusade, Beta-Garmon, etc.

I do think they will be able to pick up the pace once all factions are released, but I think they have a commercial interest in making sure the game itself has content to chew on for a while.

Thing with SoT in my opinion, is especially if loyalist, it's completely uninteresting as a campaign for all but 3 legions. Two major legions, the DA and UM, have only really been introduced, it would be completely unsatisfying for it to go back to BA and WS again for the rest of the BB series.

 

Hence probably as well why they glossed over some for WS. We know it ends with them. BA, WS and IF will have the entire ending to themselves essentially, so to me it makes sense for mid heresy to really get a couple more books with stuff for the other legions, like the DA, SW and UM.

 

I don't see it as just profit-maximizing to continue step by step, it's just what they should do. Skipping to the SoT would be an utter disappointment.

Edited October 30, 2020 by WrathOfTheLion

[GodEmperorOfMankind]

Personally I'd love for them to release some more black books before the siege.

 

Wasn't there 20 planned originally?

 

Now I doubt that will still happen, but I can see the siege taking 3 books, 1st one being the solar war and initial landings, the last 1 focusing on the big E/Horus battle royale. (which is incidentally when I think we'll see chaos Horus and the emps himself in rule/model form.

 

So maybe 15 books total, with 2 for the mid-late heresy events.

 

My biggest fear, and one I think has a good chance of happening, is that they'll be thinning down the content and the rules options in these future books.

 

By rules options I mean we'll end up with static units ala Aos and more recently 9th Ed, this is your unit no options for different weapons or load outs, hell maybe not even the ability to take a varying size of unit.

 

But I digress

[Indefragable]

Rushing to the SoT right now in the Black Books would be Season 8 of Game of Thrones. No heart, no soul, just end it and move on to the next cash cow.

 

I think FW’s biggest strength is the moment is to stand back from Black Library as much as they feasibly can. The BL series was so long yet didn’t really amount to a whole lot at the end of the day. The Black Book approach can show us how so many events transpired, and in a military history fashion full of all the amazing little details we’ve come to know and love. Cases in point:

 

-Imperium Secundus: I am curious to see the FW approach on this, expecting a far more nuanced and gloriously cynical take on both the how and why, as well as making it feel like a full blown front in the war rather than some weird side drama.

 

-White Scars arc: likewise I expect the FW coverage of both the Second Battle of Prospero (WS vs WS and WS vs DG) and events of Path of Heaven to be some of their finest work, if for no other reason that the BL portrayal is some of that group’s own best work. So rather than having to rectify poor logic or explain things away, FW can just show us more and from a more strategic view; “you saw the trailer now see the movie.”

 

-Beta Garmon: Exhibit A of something that needs to be expanded and have life breathed into it and the FW approach should serve it quite well. I expect this one to take up its own book and be more or a battle-zone focus over the course of the HH rather than a chronological accounting, especially since other books (6, I think?) talked about the Great Firebreak of Beta Garmon, aka it was the main line of defense before Sol for most of the conflict and was contested shortly after Istvaan until the Traitors finally got through to Sol itself.

 

I think the HH deserves to be its own contained setting and there’s plenty of life left in it. I think most of us engaged with it want the nooks and crannies and interesting details and want them to do it right. BL’s arc overall has been disappointing because it did so much yet so little at the same time; there was no unifying vision of how to get from point A to point B. FW has that ability and I hope they use it to their max.

Edited October 31, 2020 by Indefragable

[Noserenda]

I'm certain they won't repeat BLs mistake of too much meandering quite the opposite in fact, especially with a single "official" narrator with a fixed view I expect most of the secret battles bl has covered to not hit the black books precisely because the Imperium does not know about them.

 

So something for Tallarn or Beta Garmon definitely but I massively doubt Imperium secundus for example.

 

I'd guess the early Martian clashes for the next book?

[WrathOfTheLion]

Imperium Secundus I would think would get folded with any Shadow Crusade entry.

 

But I would hope we have many books covering lots of details before we get to the SoT. Tallarn, Beta-Garmon, Shadow Crusade, Martian Conflicts, Barbarus, etc.

Edited November 1, 2020 by WrathOfTheLion

[Lucerne]

Reminder that we don't even have lore on what the AL was doing for most of the Heresy. Skipping to the Siege would be a rushed cash grab when they have huge swathes of the Heresy to explain.

[Churchill53]

It would also make it hard to expand on many of the loyalist legions, doing a few books before going into the seige would allow those that didn’t take part in it to be expanded, ie raven guard monsters. As well as trying out new types of missions never done before, such as grand tank battles on tallan or Titan/knight warfare. 
 

I think it would be more of a cash grab to not to it and rush into the next project than take their time on this and do it properly

[sarabando]

few or many books one thing I hope for either way is that we get damn minis for whatever they show

[Charlo]

There is absolutely tonnes of content they could still do before moving on to the siege.

 

Shadow Crusade (proper)
Legions with more Chaos influence
Mars

Bata Garmon

Tallarn

 

And thats just a tiny sampling.

[Tymell]

Personally I don't really mind which way around they do it. I enjoy the more "narrative" parts of the FW books, but they're written more like historical accounts than straightforward stories (not a criticism, just noting the difference), so I don't feel like I'd lose anything by them coming out of chronological order.

 

I love the books and want to see lots of them, but I'm fine with them skipping ahead to the Siege now or taking their time, so long as we get plenty of books out of it in the end.

[Taliesin]

 

-Beta Garmon: Exhibit A of something that needs to be expanded and have life breathed into it and the FW approach should serve it quite well. I expect this one to take up its own book and be more or a battle-zone focus over the course of the HH rather than a chronological accounting, especially since other books (6, I think?) talked about the Great Firebreak of Beta Garmon, aka it was the main line of defense before Sol for most of the conflict and was contested shortly after Istvaan until the Traitors finally got through to Sol itself.

 

 

 Obviously we have no answers but I wonder if they might not cover this in a BB because they have covered it last year in the Adeptus Titanicus Beta Garmon Titandeath supplement?

 

Not that I personally think that in any way justifies not doing a Black Book on it because that was a mere summary compared to what you'd get in a BB.

[bluntblade]

It's been a long while since we saw most of the Legions who were in Book 1, and I think we should get a proper look at their corruption as well as the Dark Mechanicum. The narrative should definitely feel like it's moving forward again - I'm imagining the next book or two bringing us to Beta-Garmon.

 

As a personal preference I'm hoping that we see Skitarii popping up as their own faction, and some Imperial Army love outside of the Solar Auxilia, who I'd also like to see more of. Heck, Chaos Blackshields would rock too and it would be awesome to see them represented in the rules.

 

Side note: I really wish that Malevolence had made up a battle between Chondax and Path of Heaven which pitted the Scars against Emperor's Children, Sons of Horus and/or DarkMech. It would've avoided the frustration of things being added to Chondax which worsen the story of that battle and fit the themes of the Black Book better.

[b1soul]

@ Indefragable

 

I think the White Scars arc was all but precluded by the White Scars section of Malevolence

 

It basically says little is known of what they did after Chondax and before Terra.

[SkimaskMohawk]

But somehow AK knows the events of Prince of Crows including the culling of the kyropterra?

 

Kind of hard to swallow that no scar was available for interview post-seige about what they did for half the heresy but they got sevatar on the record.

[WrathOfTheLion]

We have WS from other fleets popping up in Book 9, so I would expect we would see other WS forces pop up elsewhere anyways.

[b1soul]

I'd dearly like to see FW take of the four years effort by the WS to disrupt Traitor supply lines, but if movements of the Legion at large are "little" known (better than unknown I suppose)...perhaps they might throw us Sagyar Mazan/Shattered Legion engagements like Dwell?

[bluntblade]

It smacks of laziness, is the problem. Conquest has the historian reconstructing campaigns from data which was gleaned from wrecked warships. Did the Scars share absolutely no data from their years of fighting? Was nothing captured from Traitor forces?

 

It just frustrates me because Malevolence is meant to centre on daemons, and instead we get a Chondax which is full of how tricksy the AL are. I don't understand what we gain from this. We know the AL are tricksy, to the point that their prior Black Book appearances were to the effect of "these guys can hit hard in conventional warfare too, but not everything goes their way."

 

Whereas from Shiban Khan's recollections alone, the White Scars saw tons of Chaotic stuff after Prospero. Daemon engines, corrupted Astartes, there's so much to pick and choose from to build a campaign which suits the narrative.

[Laughingman]

There is absolutely tonnes of content they could still do before moving on to the siege.

 

Shadow Crusade (proper)

Legions with more Chaos influence

Mars

Bata Garmon

Tallarn

 

And thats just a tiny sampling.

 

 

They had laid out previously at one of the weekenders a timeline of the Horus Heresy: I believe it also included:

 

The passage of the angel of death

 

The breaking of Anvilius

 

The Wolf Cull

 

The sea of fire/Titan Death/ Battle for Beta Gammon

[b1soul]

@ bluntblade

 

I think FW wanted to cover a WS well-established "old lore" campaign in their first appearance

 

That's fine, but the period between Chondax and Terra is such a fertile playground to develop the WS...jumping from Chondax to Terra seems to be missing a massive opportunity

[bluntblade]

@ bluntblade

 

I think FW wanted to cover a WS well-established "old lore" campaign in their first appearance

 

That's fine, but the period between Chondax and Terra is such a fertile playground to develop the WS...jumping from Chondax to Terra seems to be missing a massive opportunity

It wasn't even half a fight until Wraight wrote his book though, and he only made it fleeting engagement.

 

There was so much they could've done...

Edited November 4, 2020 by bluntblade

[b1soul]

I think even the Second Battle of Prospero with WS vs. DG was a more natural fit than Chondax (which was always primarily WS vs. Orks).

 

Then there's all the skirmishes and battles after that, e.g. Dwell, Peressimar, Catullus Rift, Kalium Gate

 

Maybe FW will contradict itself and cover some of these in detail. Wouldn't be the first time they contradict

[bluntblade]

It's just... I feel like Wraight was leaving all these titbits for FW (or fanfic-writers, modelling hobbyists etc) to play with.

 

It would even make more sense if they want to spotlight a guy like Tsolman Khan, who has zero role in the novels. Have him fight a battle against some corrupted Sons of Horus and say in the postscript that he escaped with his Khan or found another long and winding way to Terra.