Who plays Seal of Oath RAW

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

What it sez on the tin .

[psyduck]

You mean the reroll against all units thing?

I haven't tried to, but I can't see anyone letting that slide outside of complete beginners, and that's not very nice to them.

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

Reading it the Raw is equivalent to the Rai interpretation imo.

[psyduck]

I think it's because the FAQ's RAW says  'if they make an attack against AN enemy unit..' vs the original's wording of 'if they make an attack against THAT enemy unit..'

That's probably why RAW is hilariously broken good, but no one would let you get away with it probably.

[Prot]

Reading it the Raw is equivalent to the Rai interpretation imo.

 

I think it needs clarity. It's essentially a relic item that mimics Guilliman's old aura. I don't know how you can say 'RAI' when they stripped this very ability off of the Primarch of the greatest Legion of them all. ;)

 

I personally use it in every game, but I do not use as RaW. I use it as it was previously written, simply adding the Core mechanism. 

 

I think it's because the FAQ's RAW says  'if they make an attack against AN enemy unit..' vs the original's wording of 'if they make an attack against THAT enemy unit..'

 

That's probably why RAW is hilariously broken good, but no one would let you get away with it probably.

 

The weird thing is that this is a really easy, simple fix which is really hard to screw up in the first place. It means GW didn't copy/paste the old relic writing with simply adding "core" language to the rule. Instead they re-wrote it, (implied) screwed it up, and (implied) did not proof read it. 

 

I'm not going to start a bash session here, but let's be honest, have GW done this before? Absolutely. That's why it's entirely within the realm of possibility it's another rush job mistake.

 

Again, I don't think they mean to put the stripped down power of a Primarch into a relic. 

[psyduck]

It's now the Seal of Gulliman's Oath.

Probably recorded when he stubbed his toe. Bless GW.

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

Seeing it only applies to core units I honestly don’t see see it as being OP .

[Prot]

Seeing it only applies to core units I honestly don’t see see it as being OP .

 

Okay, let's say for the sake of argument it isn't "OP". 

 

Do you think it makes sense to have a relic that supersedes the ability of Roboute Guilliman as far as To Hit/To Wound re-rolls?

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

I think it’s okay since it’s limited to core units. I also think the rule as it appears worded is their intent.

[Kallas]

I also think the rule as it appears worded is their intent.

 

The FAQ/Errata does not overwrite the first 'select an enemy unit' sentence.

 

The second, new, sentence has no reference to the chosen unit. It's clearly a mistake by GW and not intended to be reroll all (hits and) wounds against all enemy units; that's definitely way too good.

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

Can anybody quote the original rule that appeared in the first supplement ?

[jonjacob]

Original rules

First sentence: At the start of the first battle round, before the first turn begins, select one enemy unit.
 

Second sentence: You can re-roll hit rolls and wound rolls for attacks made by models in friendly units against that enemy unit, whilst that friendly unit is within 6" of a model with this Relic. 

 

I do prefer the rules as intended method.

[Ishagu]

Because the 1st sentence remains in play I feel that it only works against a single, nominated unit.

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

ORIGINAL
First sentence: At the start of the first battle round, before the first turn begins, select one enemy unit.
 
Second sentence: You can re-roll hit rolls and wound rolls for attacks made by models in friendly units against that enemy unit, whilst that friendly unit is within 6" of a model with this Relic. 

ERRATA
Second sentence: Until the end of the battle, the bearer has the following ability: ‘Seal of Oath (Aura): While a friendly Ultramarines Core or Ultramarines Character unit is within 6" of the bearer, each time a model in that unit makes an attack against an enemy unit, you can re-roll that attack’s hit roll and you can re-roll that attack’s wound roll.

 

Looks like poor wording in the errata.

Edited November 4, 2020 by Black Blow Fly

[Ishagu]

Yeah definitely, but that original sentence remains.

 

We need a new supplement lol

[Prot]

ORIGINAL

First sentence: At the start of the first battle round, before the first turn begins, select one enemy unit.

 

Second sentence: You can re-roll hit rolls and wound rolls for attacks made by models in friendly units against that enemy unit, whilst that friendly unit is within 6" of a model with this Relic. 

 

ERRATA

Second sentence: Until the end of the battle, the bearer has the following ability: ‘Seal of Oath (Aura): While a friendly Ultramarines Core or Ultramarines Character unit is within 6" of the bearer, each time a model in that unit makes an attack against an enemy unit, you can re-roll that attack’s hit roll and you can re-roll that attack’s wound roll.

 

Looks like poor wording in the errata.

 

That's what I've been saying... I just cannot believe that the intent was to unleash the Primarich's (old) ability into something an Apothecary could be holding.

 

It's a really bad copy paste/edit. 

 

Again, I haven't/won't use it as the errata'd  second sentence would indicate. I think that if you are using it that way, at the very least you should be letting your opponent know your intent. 

[Aspecti]

Well, RAW, it works against all enemy units. Sure the first sentence remains, but the second sentence doesn't refer to the first sentence in any way. So you select an enemy unit before the first round begins, okay. RAW, the selected unit has nothing to do with the second sentence.

 

RAI, I guess it should be like it reads in our supplement, with the Core or Character units added.

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

Hope they faq this one.

[Guiltysparc]

Its the first sentence that seals the intent (unless they got rid of that?).  There is no reason to pick an enemy unit at the start of the game if the Seal gives rerolls against every unit.

[Ishagu]

It's still there, so it's obvious what they want the rule to do. Still, a bad Errata!

[Kervin40k]

Two things, one, the new FAQ (11/09/2020) changed it to "that unit" again, and two, have yet to play a 9th ed game with UM is it still worth taking now it is working as it should have all along.  I mean unless your opponent has a true big nasty that can easily be targeted it seems kind of meh for a SM relic. 

[frightnight]

Two things, one, the new FAQ (11/09/2020) changed it to "that unit" again, and two, have yet to play a 9th ed game with UM is it still worth taking now it is working as it should have all along.  I mean unless your opponent has a true big nasty that can easily be targeted it seems kind of meh for a SM relic. 

I bracketed a Knight with a drop pod of Grav-cannon Devs and a LT with this relic, so I'm pretty jazzed on it.

 

Even without a big nasty, you can either reliably delete a unit or make your opponent second-guess pushing a lynchpin unit forward.

Edited November 9, 2020 by frightnight

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

I think it’s still quite good.