Outriders vs TWC

[WickedJester1013]

How do these two compare now that the codex is out? Do people prefer one verse the other?

[WickedJester1013]

Also what load do people like for Thunder wolves?

[Commander_Moustache]

I prefer Thunder wolves for reasons I shall get into, but I do think they both have a place in an army.

 

So lets go over some points.

 

Outriders are faster on the whole, and have more firepower. In fact, if you have a biker character with the right warlord trait you are guarenteed a turn 1 charge. A Primaris Biker Chaplain with a litany and Wulfen stone gives +2 to charge, and with Saga of the Hunter can Advance and charge, meaning a 21 inch move followed by a 2d6+2 rerollable charge. If the Outriders are nearby they may also advance and charge so are also all but guarenteed to get in.
 

TWC are a little slower overall, but can advance and charge without a character nearby, so can operate by themselves. But with the same character listed above, while not guarenteed to get a charge off, its still pretty high. But they will also gain the advantage of being able to retreat from combat and still charge, triggering any special rules that, that entails. They also have the edge in Close combat against the Outriders as well. Sure they lose a couple of chainsword swings on the charge, but the wolf nets them 3 slightly more powerful attacks. In addition, an outrider will lose those extra attacks in any round in which they dont charge (No heroic interventions bonuses either), whereas TWC will always get their wolf attacks. Also with a bonus to Both "Pile in" and "Sweeping Advance" Moves, it may help them keep a second unit pinned in combat, if they can survive their counter attacks of course. 

 

Prefered loadouts and why I prefer TWC comes down to 1 thing. Storm Shields. 5pts more per model gives you a unit that can take hits as well as dish them out. And you can give them special close combat weapons too (stick with claws for the regular guys though, they need the extra attack) so a powerfist or thunder hammer will certainly make its points back. And losing some bolt pistol fire is nothing compaired to saving you from a short range melta shot, and 99% of the time you will be advancing to make sure you are in a better charge range anyway.

 

So you could go either way, but my 2p would say, If youre needing firepower and/or youre running with character support and you will be running either choice without upgrades, go for outriders.

If you have the spare points for some sheilds and they will be going off on their own, TWC.

[bluescope]

 

Also what load do people like for Thunder wolves?

 

 

I prefer to storm shield and power fist.

[Karhedron]

Although both Fast Attack units, they perform very roles. Outriders are fast harassment. They are there to clear screens, grab Objectives and charge weak or backfield units. Thunderwolves are a hammer unit. They are durable, punchy and fast enough that they can get into melee T2 without any Transport or support being necessary (although supporting Characters can still help them greatly).

 

TWC are not as fast as Outriders but can be thrown into the kind of opposition that Outriders would just bounce off. With this in mind, I would normally kit the TWC out with mostly Storm Shields and Lightning Claw. A Fist or Hammer on a couple of models (particularly the Pack Leader) will help greatly when dealing with heavier opponents.

[Jorin Helm-splitter]

I agree with Karhedron's point about the different roles for the two units. In my experience with outriders their best games typically involve getting into the 4th table quarter for engage on all fronts, moving to protect a character, or grabbing an objective late. Basically to get the most out of them you need to leverage their speed.

 

Thunderwolves are a brute force unit that you build around and you need to invest in them. So storm shields and mix of special melee weapons.

[Dark Shepherd]

Outriders are faster on the whole, and have more firepower. In fact, if you have a biker character with the right warlord trait you are guarenteed a turn 1 charge. A Primaris Biker Chaplain with a litany and Wulfen stone gives +2 to charge, and with Saga of the Hunter can Advance and charge, meaning a 21 inch move followed by a 2d6+2 rerollable charge. If the Outriders are nearby they may also advance and charge so are also all but guarenteed to get in.

The outriders wouldnt get advance and charge as Deeds are activated at the end of the phase (this seems to be coming up a lot)

[jay170788]

I'm hoping to run an army with both in. Unfortunately it is going to have to cost me 3CP but I am hoping for 2 x TWC as my hammer, 2 x Outriders as harassment and taking objectives then running 2 x single cyber wolves for easy secondary points.

[Commander_Moustache]

 

Outriders are faster on the whole, and have more firepower. In fact, if you have a biker character with the right warlord trait you are guarenteed a turn 1 charge. A Primaris Biker Chaplain with a litany and Wulfen stone gives +2 to charge, and with Saga of the Hunter can Advance and charge, meaning a 21 inch move followed by a 2d6+2 rerollable charge. If the Outriders are nearby they may also advance and charge so are also all but guarenteed to get in.

The outriders wouldnt get advance and charge as Deeds are activated at the end of the phase (this seems to be coming up a lot)

Ahh gotcha. Dont have the book to hand

[WickedJester1013]

Very solid points, so would a bike Chaplin be wasted with the TWC? Would you ever take both twc and outriders in a list?

[PeteySödes]

Very solid points, so would a bike Chaplin be wasted with the TWC? Would you ever take both twc and outriders in a list?

 

Litany of faith offsets a bit of the pain of not having transhuman on them. Giving him the Obsec trait is also a great way to round the unit out.

[Dark Shepherd]

Its a ways off but if Outriders go multipart or even get sergeant weapon options they become even more attractive

[VIth]

Was the strat to make the warlord trait deed active from the start of the game a Crusade rule? Traveling and can’t look it up right now...

[Karhedron]

Very solid points, so would a bike Chaplin be wasted with the TWC? Would you ever take both twc and outriders in a list?

Litany of Hate is useful but TWC already get +1 to-Hit on the Charge thanks to the Chapter Trait. On the other hand, if you have lots of TH/PFs, having full rerolls is pretty handy. Exhortation of Rage for +1 to Wound is pretty nice too, particularly with Claws.

[Kallas]

Was the strat to make the warlord trait deed active from the start of the game a Crusade rule? Traveling and can’t look it up right now...

 

Yes. That one is called Warrior of Renown and is a Crusade Requisition.

 

The stratagem is called Deed Worthy Of A Saga, which lets a character that completes a deed get the deed aura even though they don't have a Warlord Trait.

[Dark Shepherd]

 

Very solid points, so would a bike Chaplin be wasted with the TWC? Would you ever take both twc and outriders in a list?

Litany of Hate is useful but TWC already get +1 to-Hit on the Charge thanks to the Chapter Trait. On the other hand, if you have lots of TH/PFs, having full rerolls is pretty handy. Exhortation of Rage for +1 to Wound is pretty nice too, particularly with Claws.

Healing Balms is great on TWC too

Plus having Armour of Russ nearby is great too

[Jorin Helm-splitter]

Very solid points, so would a bike Chaplin be wasted with the TWC? Would you ever take both twc and outriders in a list?

No bike chaplains are really good and they can keep up. I'm only running primaris but I think outriders would work really well with thunderwolves they're really good at killing screens, and can do the dirty work while allowing the thunderwolves to be very aggressive.

[VIth]

I think Primaris bike chaplain will prove to be one of the best units of this edition unless nerfed

[Dark Shepherd]

I think Primaris bike chaplain will prove to be one of the best units of this edition unless nerfed

Definitely. What reins him in a little is the extra points for master of sanctity, no power fist option, and having to spend commamd points to make him a superhero character