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Thousand Sons - Game Today: Pre-game talk

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#1
Prot

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Today I have a game using the Thousand Sons, but I have to admit it's a bit weird finishing the list because of the Forgeworld debacle. 

 

I usually use a few dreads. Now I'm not sure if I should because of the CP cost. I'm using 2 CP to start because I'm using 2 detachments. I don't want to blow another for my quad Las contemptor as well. Or my Decimator.

 

Then it occurred to me it isn't legal (yet?).

 

So with my other armies I've found the basic Dreads (Helbrutes) to be really decent with Multi Melta/Plasma. What are you guys finding for these units in game?

 

The basic idea here is I'm using my Cult of Time with 10 Scarab Occult. It's just something I've done a ton since the PA came out.

 

Since so much goes into that squad, keeping it alive, etc. I don't have a real belief in large squads of Rubrics. I also want to be able to effectively hide them and by keeping them smaller I increase my psychic power choices.

 

The game is against one of the locals who does very well against a wide range of opponents, but unfortunately has a very poor record against me so what I've done to help his cause is:

 

- Not playing marines (!)

- No Magnus. I know he's swingy, but he's in every one of my lists because of theme/cool factor for me. If I get first turn, it can be a big wipe out. (Conversely if I go second he will often end up dead, but going first against his army can be the opposite effect.)

 

I've been using a lot of Defilers (I think they are nearly an auto include now with psychics). But I want to reduce that number to just 1, and replace my Contemptor with a pair of Helbrutes. If anyone has tried them with the newer weapon stats changes, please let me know.

 

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

 

Another thing I'd like comments on is Cult type because I might be under-thinking this!

 

In the Termie Detachment I ALWAYS go Cult of Time. In the Battalion I ALWAYS take Duplicity. (Mainly to chuck units around the table and the warlord trait.)

 

Thoughts?


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#2
WarriorFish

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Who's brought the oranges for half time? tongue.png I can't offer much on the list stuff unfortunately as I've yet to game in 9th with my Sons. Do you have the list to share as it sounds like a curious one so I'm interested in how it'll work. Fingers crossed the game goes well thumbsup.gif


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Painting Oaths Completed:
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In the grim predictability of online 40k, there can be only Sun Tzu quotes

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#3
Naryn

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I usually run melee-only brutes, but have recently switched to multi-melta and plas and i'm kicking myself for not doing so earlier. They won't be as killy as a quad-las contemptor but the stat changes from 9e make them very effective.
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#4
Prot

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WF - I always bring the fruit! 

 

Here's the list. It's nothing special but it has solid Primary focus (all my chaos typically does). 

 
++ Battalion Detachment 0CP (Chaos - Thousand Sons) [71 PL, 12CP, 1,217pts] ++
 
+ Configuration +
 
Battle Size [12CP]: 3. Strike Force (101-200 Total PL / 1001-2000 Points) 
 
Cults of the Legion: Cult of Duplicity
 
Detachment CP
 
+ HQ +
 
Ahriman on Disc of Tzeentch [9 PL, 170pts]: Death Hex, Prescience, Warptime
 
Daemon Prince of Tzeentch [10 PL, 200pts]: Dark Matter Crystal, Gaze of Fate, Infernal Gateway, Malefic talon, Wings
 
Exalted Sorcerer on Disc of Tzeentch [7 PL, 120pts]: Duplicitous Tactician, Helm of the Third Eye, Inferno Bolt Pistol, Prescience, Temporal Manipulation, Warlord
 
+ Troops +
 
Rubric Marines [6 PL, 90pts]
. Aspiring Sorcerer: Force stave, Glamour of Tzeentch, Inferno Bolt Pistol
. 4x Rubric Marine w/ Inferno Boltgun: 4x Inferno boltgun
 
Rubric Marines [6 PL, 90pts]
. Aspiring Sorcerer: Force stave, Inferno Bolt Pistol, Weaver of Fates
. 4x Rubric Marine w/ Inferno Boltgun: 4x Inferno boltgun
 
Rubric Marines [6 PL, 90pts]
. Aspiring Sorcerer: Force stave, Inferno Bolt Pistol, Weaver of Fates
. 4x Rubric Marine w/ Inferno Boltgun: 4x Inferno boltgun
 
+ Elites +
 
Helbrute [7 PL, 110pts]: Helbrute fist, Helbrute plasma cannon
 
Helbrute [7 PL, 115pts]: Helbrute fist, Multi-melta
 
+ Fast Attack +
 
Chaos Spawn [4 PL, 92pts]
. 4x Chaos Spawn: 4x Hideous mutations
 
+ Heavy Support +
 
Defiler [9 PL, 140pts]: Defiler scourge, Reaper autocannon
 
++ Patrol Detachment -2CP (Chaos - Thousand Sons) [42 PL, -3CP, 779pts] ++
 
+ Configuration +
 
Cults of the Legion: Cult of Time
 
Detachment CP [-2CP]
 
+ Stratagems +
 
Relics of the Thousand Sons (1 Relic) [-1CP]
 
+ HQ +
 
Sorcerer in Terminator Armour [6 PL, 108pts]: Glamour of Tzeentch, Inferno Combi-bolter, Tzeentch's Firestorm
 
+ Troops +
 
Tzaangors [8 PL, 109pts]: Brayhorn
. Twistbray: Tzaangor blades
. 10x Tzaangor w/ Tzaangor blades: 10x Tzaangor blades
 
+ Elites +
 
Scarab Occult Terminators [20 PL, 412pts]: 2x Hellfyre Missile Rack
. Scarab Occult Sorcerer: Inferno Combi-bolter, Weaver of Fates
. 8x Terminator: 8x Inferno Combi-bolter, 8x Power sword
. Terminator w/ Heavy Weapon: Power sword, Soulreaper cannon
 
+ Flyer +
 
Heldrake [8 PL, 150pts]: Baleflamer
 
++ Total: [113 PL, 9CP, 1,996pts] ++
 
Created with BattleScribe (https://battlescribe.net)

 

I usually run melee-only brutes, but have recently switched to multi-melta and plas and i'm kicking myself for not doing so earlier. They won't be as killy as a quad-las contemptor but the stat changes from 9e make them very effective.

 

Exactly. I've learned this from the other side (Loyalist SM). It's a big IF but if we ever see something similar to Duty Eternal these guys will be staples in my list.

 

Honestly I just usually include my FW walkers because I finished painting them. This is my 3rd go around for Thousand Sons (since they came out) and I really find them super slow to paint, but I've seen first hand from my early 9th games with Thousand Sons that these are great units. The new weapon adjustments AND Duplicity chucking them across the board make them super fun.

 

I wish I had one of those shooty Forgefiends (sold my last one), but that BS4 has always bugged me.


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#5
Montoya

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Interesting list. 

 

The question is whether the extra powers that the additional sorcerer gives you is worth the CP of having to field the second detachment.

 

I've never used defilers, so i'm looking forward to hearing how you make out.


Edited by Montoya, 18 November 2020 - 07:41 PM.


#6
Prot

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Interesting list. 

 

The question is whether the extra powers that the additional sorcerer gives you is worth the CP of having to field the second detachment.

 

I've never used defilers, so i'm looking forward to hearing how you make out.

 

Well it's meant to be a mid tier list. We have a good, larger group of competitive players, but this guy is not someone I want to whallop.

 

The question about the additional sorcerer isn't really why I do that... rather it's to get CoT running with 10 Scarab Occult. (It's really the only way I find them worth it right now.)


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#7
WarriorFish

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I've long been a proponent of gun/combat Dreads as the versatility goes far, especially with the changes from 8th. I think the MM is a solid close range choice, as noted the range of the lascannon is great and very useful for shorter ranged armies but if you can get up in and position it shouldn't matter much. In particular the reliable punch melta gets now is well worth exploring for AT duties so I'm looking at MMs more now. Hopefully Helbrutes get similar attention to Loyalist Dreads and we can all be happy :P

 

The list looks decent, I'm still wanting to get a Heldrake eventually so keen to hear how that does in particular :)


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Painting Oaths Completed:
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In the grim predictability of online 40k, there can be only Sun Tzu quotes

SM Ironclad | IG Stormies | =][= Stormies | AM Armigers

CSM Terminators | TSons Rubrics | Daemons Daemonettes

DE Warriors | Tyranids Genestealers


#8
Archaeinox

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I have found that dreads or contemptors with the fist + melta or plasma provide a close combat gap we need while still being able to apply some primaris-killing shooting where we need it.


"You're a wizard, Ahri"

"Discgoat for Harambe"


#9
Ulfast

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So how did the game go?



#10
Prot

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I posted the short version battle report and some pictures on my blog here:

https://prot40k.wpco...d-hobby-update/

 

For those who just want to know who won: click the spoiler below:

 

Spoiler


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#11
Ulfast

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Thank you for the report. I learned a lot. Some very intersting thoughts.

#12
Naryn

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Excellent batrep, I really enjoyed your analysis of mistakes as they happened. Looks like a great time, and glad to see the heldrake get some table time


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#13
WarriorFish

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The mirrors my game against the new crons too (though I was fielding Daemons), they have fiendish shooting but if you can start messing with this you can turn things around - starting close seems one of those gambles that could go either way for the army.

 

Good to hear the Heldrake did well, I think it's a decent unit that adds a lot of options which are not really something you can put points on especially for Sons. Overall a good win :)


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Painting Oaths Completed:
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gallery_30308_3239_42.gifgallery_30308_3239_102.gifgallery_30308_3239_42.gif
In the grim predictability of online 40k, there can be only Sun Tzu quotes

SM Ironclad | IG Stormies | =][= Stormies | AM Armigers

CSM Terminators | TSons Rubrics | Daemons Daemonettes

DE Warriors | Tyranids Genestealers


#14
Prot

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Thanks for reading it. I think tactically I did what I usually do against Necrons which is box them in quickly, try to negate shooting angles. I set up this table, and I confess to using less terrain, and less Obscurement than usual (we typically use 2 larger pieces mid table before knowing the map. We random roll every game in our group.)

 

The Baledrake is never something I put in the list thinking it will be a huge impact... but if you plan for it (with secondaries) and position your army to do so, the Baledrake must be dealt with or it's incredibly annoying. It never kills much, but the entanglement factor is often really worth it.

 

This is a game where I did feel the early lead was very necessary, as you can see his ability to wipe infantry was much better than mine. 


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#15
Ulfast

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Before I used the heldrake to make a one turn charge, usually into a tank (or something similiar) so that it couldn´t fire in the next turn. That is now leathal as they can fire into combat. But your idea about using the heldrake as something to get secondary ahve really open up my eyes for a lot of new options to use it against.


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#16
Prot

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Before I used the heldrake to make a one turn charge, usually into a tank (or something similiar) so that it couldn´t fire in the next turn. That is now leathal as they can fire into combat. But your idea about using the heldrake as something to get secondary ahve really open up my eyes for a lot of new options to use it against.

 

It's still good in the way you say though... a lot of tanks have a strong primary fire that is "Blast" and I still go right for those targets when available. 

 

Heldrake + Duplicty = some solid ways to start the game with full Engage points.

 

Also, I find I don't need to take the relic to hop around as much anymore since it's a power in my battalion. The crystal is still good, but it is fun to have some choices there! My Cult of Time D.P got to come back from the dead for example (it never happened in that game but still!)

 

Thanks for checking it out!


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#17
Ulfast

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Not relevant to this topic but I must say that I got so inspired with your battlereport and views that after not painting Thousand sons for over 6 months I pickted some up and started again. Started to work on some terminators and mutalith vorex beast. Feels good and even if I know we have to struggle I´m positive again and happy about geting that Thousands sons feeling back :)



#18
Archaeinox

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A wonderful read, thanks for maintaining your webpage like that. We all like the batrep format and analysis.

 

Ulfast, it's cool to see you get so inspired. I have been losing steam with each game I use them in lately and I just need a break I guess. The perils is getting old and the high risk/low reward I have experienced during games isn't enjoyable. Those are my dice rolls so don't let my negative nancy talk affect you. I can roll some 1s lol! Already listed my stuff and maybe will rebuild when the codex is out- with a more precise 2000pt list or so. 3500 is a lot to have so maybe I'll be able to also pick up some battlefoam for any new TS purchases


Edited by Archaeinox, 22 November 2020 - 06:07 PM.

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"You're a wizard, Ahri"

"Discgoat for Harambe"


#19
Mordas

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You can't be rolling that bad can you?


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#20
Archaeinox

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I'm really not trying to do some sort of pity party but there's a running joke at my store, and has been for years that my worst opponent is myself because of casting. Some games I'm working with just the shooting phase its so abysmal. losing contemptors in events hurt me a lot

 

Sorry prot I dont mean to hijack your post so I'll cool it- it's probably best if you just remove my comments since after reading back, they don't add to the discussion and I do not want to be like that here.


Edited by Archaeinox, 23 November 2020 - 12:23 AM.

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"You're a wizard, Ahri"

"Discgoat for Harambe"


#21
Ulfast

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Also a bit of topic but I had a game against an custodes player and in one psychic phase, I fail 9 out of 10 spell! It was turn two and was very important and ofc that made me lose the game as he murdered my poor sons after that. 



#22
Tichinde

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Quick question: is the reason of having multiple copies of powers for tactical flexibility (as you can only cast 1 of each pet phase) or something else?

#23
byrd9999

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Prot, thanks for taking the time to post the pre-game chat and an awesome post-game report on your blog :)  

 

I have a question about your game. It might just be the camera angles, but in a couple of shots, in the second picture, and the picture with your defiler in melee with the necrons, the necrons have more than 5 models in a unit, but there are some that are not within an inch of two other models. Wouldn't they have to be removed until the unit had 5 models?


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#24
Mordas

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With the new Necron reanimation rules, models could have re-animated and come back in the gaps. It is risky but any outside of 2" as you said should be removed.


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#25
Prot

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Gho, thanks for taking the time to post the pre-game chat and an awesome post-game report on your blog smile.png

 

I have a question about your game. It might just be the camera angles, but in a couple of shots, in the second picture, and the picture with your defiler in melee with the necrons, the necrons have more than 5 models in a unit, but there are some that are not within an inch of two other models. Wouldn't they have to be removed until the unit had 5 models?

thanks for the comment. It’s very possible you could be right. Throughout the game I politely warned my opponent about that but several ti,Ed he assured me he was abiding by the rule. Honestly I’ve always disliked that rule. It’s horrible for going through ruins or forget squeezes. 
 

I be,rive I would alway tell him to just make sure he “T’s” the end of his rows. In this case though I very often took a picture before we were done with model placement. I’m personally not going to grind him on it as it was a runner practice game. But yes it was mentioned more than once during the game. 


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