WARMASTER_ Posted November 22, 2020 Share Posted November 22, 2020 The other restriction is that the detachment would have to be led by an appropriate character. In previous editions this would have been Sammael and Belial, but I’d hope this would expanded to include Talon Masters and perhaps...a Deathwing Lt? One can dream! I’m hoping as you can now make terminator captains and bike captains have DW/RW key words respectively it also works for successors About the LT. I’d love to see them expanded on the Knightmaster / Huntmaster roles they’re already basically LT’s anyway and in the rank of the chapter they outrank the LT’s so it would be a cool lore reason to give the smaller command roles Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WARMASTER_ Posted November 22, 2020 Share Posted November 22, 2020 I truly hope we will get a Fallen Codex one day. A codex for a faction that was never an army but just some scattered individuals?Yes it makes sense The current lore supports the idea of the Fallen starting to form a true army. Legion even.So, yeah, it does make sense. The sarcasm is as unappreciated as the overall contribution of your comment. I hope they will never make a fallen army cause it would be ugly as an idea and it would fire more sarcasm about the traitor DA that tired me to hellSo Fallen for me are not an army... They are just traitors that deserve to repent and die Just because people tell the same bad joke ad nauseam doesn’t really warrant a great part of the lore getting expanded rules and maybe some great new models, Failbaddon for example never been funny or accurate but BL are still the big bad of the setting Either way you want to look at it the fallen are not just a threat to the DA’s honour they’re now a massive threat to the imperium at large being legion strength, so while yes traitors they may be and die they must it shouldn’t stop a faction getting rules really should it? Berzul and Gederas 2 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G8Keeper Posted November 22, 2020 Author Share Posted November 22, 2020 (edited) Just to expand on that, there are also fallen players out there who have Cypher and a single unit option without adding in allies or getting permission from mates to use things as fallen. With how they are grouping up in the fluff, any addition to their rules/units is welcome. Remember how squashed Sisters players were until they got their range revival? Edited November 22, 2020 by G8Keeper Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Ramael Posted November 22, 2020 Share Posted November 22, 2020 The baffling thing would be having the Fallen using a quasi-marine ( no demon, primaris or marks, etc) codex and the imperium keyword, people would go nuts ( not that will happen, based on what is happening in the lore) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Berzul Posted November 22, 2020 Share Posted November 22, 2020 In the end, one not LIKING the Fallen (or the jokes about them), does not negate that in the lore the Fallen ARE at a strength level which warrants their own supplement, I think. They are legion strong. They have Luther and other commanders of great note. They have their own themes, feel, purpose and identity. And, also, their return as a Legion could be the event that sparks the return of the Lion. Remember, heroes are incomplete without a villain. The Dark Angels NEED an enemy to drive forth our best attributes and give us pupose. Facing Chaos and the Xenos races makes us Astartes, but the Fallen (im their own part and to their own extent) makes us Dark Angels. Having the Fallen being nothing more than a ragtag band of misfits, unorganized and scattered, doing evil things here and there in small pockets of the galaxy, feels much worse than having a traitor Legion that is our match, forcing us on the warpath to save ourselves from both Chaos and the Imperium. G8Keeper and Brother Ramael 2 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jings Posted November 22, 2020 Share Posted November 22, 2020 If I had to guess, then I imagine what they will do is to make DEATHWING INFANTRY units ObSec in a Vanguard Detachment, and RAVENWING BIKER units ObSec in an Outrider detachment. Can’t imagine they’d let Dreadnoughts or Land Speeders get ObSec...that would be a bit over the top! The other restriction is that the detachment would have to be led by an appropriate character. In previous editions this would have been Sammael and Belial, but I’d hope this would expanded to include Talon Masters and perhaps...a Deathwing Lt? One can dream! The “Launch faster and more deadly Ravenwing assaults” is also an interesting phrase. “Faster” might refer to game turn, so perhaps some kind of outflanking manoeuvre turn 1? The “more deadly” might also refer to damage bonuses, or perhaps to hit bonuses. Either way, bring on December and the codex previews! I think looking at the IG Russ Spearhead would be the a good indicator for on how it'll work. <Death/Ravenwing> units in a Vanguard/Outrider all get Objective Secured. Tbh its gonna be dead powerful. 1500/2K games with a detachment of each is going to be pretty brutal. Enough CP for shenanigans while (almost) every unit will be ObSec. Deepstriking in ObSec Termies while Bikes and the like deal with the enemy back line and summoning in DW Knights within high chance of charge range on juicier targets. Big problem as I see it will be your own deployment zone as both Wings are lacking I'm the long range department, but some Typhoons or Heavy Bolter Attack Bikes camping home objectives might do the trick. All this ObSec goodness has me wishing we had something akin to the old Lions Blade/Demi Company formations but I'm a sucker for fluffy builds and more than happy with finally having an excuse to use solo DW/RW without feeling like I'm deliberately handicapping myself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Master Sheol Posted November 22, 2020 Share Posted November 22, 2020 In the end, one not LIKING the Fallen (or the jokes about them), does not negate that in the lore the Fallen ARE at a strength level which warrants their own supplement, I think. They are legion strong. They have Luther and other commanders of great note. They have their own themes, feel, purpose and identity. And, also, their return as a Legion could be the event that sparks the return of the Lion. Remember, heroes are incomplete without a villain. The Dark Angels NEED an enemy to drive forth our best attributes and give us pupose. Facing Chaos and the Xenos races makes us Astartes, but the Fallen (im their own part and to their own extent) makes us Dark Angels. Having the Fallen being nothing more than a ragtag band of misfits, unorganized and scattered, doing evil things here and there in small pockets of the galaxy, feels much worse than having a traitor Legion that is our match, forcing us on the warpath to save ourselves from both Chaos and the Imperium. The DA already have the fallen without making them gathering and entire army lead by Luther What is fascinating about the Hunt that is a desperate thing cause fallen are scattered through time and space Now if all the fallen will meet all together as a legion then Azrael just need to call all Unforgiven chapters and give them a nice exterminatus all together (including Luther and Cypher) and then call the day But GW will not make this cause they are not able to handle and see the consequences of the things they put in motion The same goes for the return of the Lion Look how bad they treated RG when they took him back Ok he deserves it cause it's the Big Smurf but this not changes that the fluff about the return of RG and the following years is quite terrible GW modern day writers are not able to write decent stuff They will ruin the DA lore this way This is why i dont want to see a Fallen army cause it will be the ruin of beautiful DA lore Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aeri Posted November 22, 2020 Share Posted November 22, 2020 Speaking of the lion, I hate that we still did not get him. What is he waiting for?! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Berzul Posted November 22, 2020 Share Posted November 22, 2020 Speaking of the lion, I hate that we still did not get him. What is he waiting for?! Warhammer 50k ThatOneMarshal, Helias_Tancred, Reskin and 2 others 5 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Angel of Solitude Posted November 22, 2020 Share Posted November 22, 2020 Tbh its gonna be dead powerful. 1500/2K games with a detachment of each is going to be pretty brutal. Enough CP for shenanigans while (almost) every unit will be ObSec. Deepstriking in ObSec Termies while Bikes and the like deal with the enemy back line and summoning in DW Knights within high chance of charge range on juicier targets. Big problem as I see it will be your own deployment zone as both Wings are lacking I'm the long range department, but some Typhoons or Heavy Bolter Attack Bikes camping home objectives might do the trick. It all depends on whether we can forgo the 3CP cost for the Vanguard and Outrider detachments if they also contain your Warlord. If we can, then great - ObSec Bikes and Termies will set you back 3CP. If not, then it will set you back 6CP, which I don't think will ever be worth it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Master Sheol Posted November 22, 2020 Share Posted November 22, 2020 Speaking of the lion, I hate that we still did not get him. What is he waiting for?! You already have the Lion in his best form from FW :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Angel of Solitude Posted November 22, 2020 Share Posted November 22, 2020 Speaking of the lion, I hate that we still did not get him. What is he waiting for?! Warhammer 50k He's waiting for the right moment in the Luther / Daemon Prince Marbas / Legion of the Fallen plot to happen. The most recent Luther Black Library novel was an interesting choice of character: from a Heresy perspective, he's hardly involved, and so it makes me think (particularly given how the book ends) that this book was more of a positioning piece for a Luther-related 40k story to appear. War Zone Charadon also features Typhus as the main antaganist, and we know he has a long history with Luther - could this be something we see in in later acts? Skywrath 1 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aeri Posted November 22, 2020 Share Posted November 22, 2020 How does he have history with the lion? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother_Darius Posted November 23, 2020 Share Posted November 23, 2020 How does he have history with the lion? Not the Lion, but the fallen. Typhus was in the Legacy of Caliban series. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skywrath Posted November 23, 2020 Share Posted November 23, 2020 (edited) Speaking of the lion, I hate that we still did not get him. What is he waiting for?! Warhammer 50k He's waiting for the right moment in the Luther / Daemon Prince Marbas / Legion of the Fallen plot to happen. The most recent Luther Black Library novel was an interesting choice of character: from a Heresy perspective, he's hardly involved, and so it makes me think (particularly given how the book ends) that this book was more of a positioning piece for a Luther-related 40k story to appear. War Zone Charadon also features Typhus as the main antaganist, and we know he has a long history with Luther - could this be something we see in in later acts? That is actually a very damn interesting point. To compound that, I recall something about in a Dark Angel book (don't remember which one, it was one of the recent ones) about the Lion agreeing sacrificing his legion - whether literally, or metaphorically (i.e. turning to traitors) - perhaps that's the time when the Lion returns, to set that right? I believe the phrase was something along the lines of: "...yes, even if it costs me my own Legion". So to string this together - the fallen amass, the Dark Angels engage them, get discovered by Imperium-aligned third parties and called traitors, the Lion awakes after Luther/Marbas is sighted, and sets everything straight? Does anyone else gets the vibes that the Lion knew this all would happen and is actually waiting for the right time to wake up? I know GW are meaning the last bit metaphorically, but I'm actually starting to wonder whether him waiting for the right time to wake up is meant to be taken literally. Especially, if you were to take into account the fact that he probably could view this timeilne through Tulchulcha (however that is prounounced), so he orchestrated all these events for the end goal of keeping his legion loyal? Sounds a bit 4D-chess-ish, but admittedly this has some credit, no? Edited November 23, 2020 by Skywrath Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaplain Lucifer Posted November 23, 2020 Share Posted November 23, 2020 CODEX supplement January 21st? Nice! Since Xmas this year is ruined at least the new year starts good. Probably still won't be able to play but at least some work can be done. G8Keeper, Aeri and Interrogator Stobz 3 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Angel of Solitude Posted November 23, 2020 Share Posted November 23, 2020 That is actually a very damn interesting point. To compound that, I recall something about in a Dark Angel book (don't remember which one, it was one of the recent ones) about the Lion agreeing sacrificing his legion - whether literally, or metaphorically (i.e. turning to traitors) - perhaps that's the time when the Lion returns, to set that right? I believe the phrase was something along the lines of: "...yes, even if it costs me my own Legion". So to string this together - the fallen amass, the Dark Angels engage them, get discovered by Imperium-aligned third parties and called traitors, the Lion awakes after Luther/Marbas is sighted, and sets everything straight? Does anyone else gets the vibes that the Lion knew this all would happen and is actually waiting for the right time to wake up? I know GW are meaning the last bit metaphorically, but I'm actually starting to wonder whether him waiting for the right time to wake up is meant to be taken literally. Especially, if you were to take into account the fact that he probably could view this timeilne through Tulchulcha (however that is prounounced), so he orchestrated all these events for the end goal of keeping his legion loyal? Sounds a bit 4D-chess-ish, but admittedly this has some credit, no? I remember that quote...it's from the Lion Primarch novel, right at the very end when the Lion is having a dialogue with a Watcher in the Dark, IIRC. As for your idea, there are plenty of Inquisitors of the Ordo Hereticus roaming the galaxy who have a beef against the Dark Angels, through the Space Wolves in for good measure and you certainly have those "Imperium-aligned third parties" that you mention. The fact that it will be all the sons of the Lion - and not just the Dark Angels - fighting against the Fallen will shift the focus on the Dark Angels legion-building, rather than them fighting renegades and heretics in the name of the Imperium. This also gives a great reason to build a campaign book that features more than just Dark Angels and the Fallen - Agents of the Imperium, Talons of the Emperor, Chaos Daemons, maybe some Thousand Sons too for good measure! In any case, we're a while off the Lion returning. Best we can hope for now is a few interesting units (Robed Veteran Intercessors are quite likely, maybe some Ravenwing/Deathwing units) and if we're really lucky, a new Primaris Grand Master. Never thought I'd ever here myself say that I can't wait for Christmas to be over! Gederas and Skywrath 2 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WARMASTER_ Posted November 23, 2020 Share Posted November 23, 2020 I like the sound of that Just a point though Pete foley the GW overlord kind of let something slip on stream a while back saying something BIG is coming around Xmas as DA are in for January it might be sooner than you think the lion comes back, here’s hoping anyway Skywrath 1 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Angel of Solitude Posted November 23, 2020 Share Posted November 23, 2020 I think we'd all love that, but I think you need to build the Fallen narrative first as it's necessary for the Lion's return. Daemon Prince Marbas and a few Fallen units would be a really interesting start... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WARMASTER_ Posted November 23, 2020 Share Posted November 23, 2020 Agreed but they could do that within a single campaign book on his release, just like gathering storm, the set up is already there they’ve been planting seeds since the last Black Legion book Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aeri Posted November 23, 2020 Share Posted November 23, 2020 I like the sound of that Just a point though Pete foley the GW overlord kind of let something slip on stream a while back saying something BIG is coming around Xmas as DA are in for January it might be sooner than you think the lion comes back, here’s hoping anyway Well, GW is know to announce a silent fart as "something big coming". So it could be anything from a new set of dice to or a DA themed paintbrush to the emperor of mankind... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WARMASTER_ Posted November 23, 2020 Share Posted November 23, 2020 Nah it was definitely a bit of the blunder! Like you could tell the guys on stream were like “Shut up Pete” was kinda funny, doesn’t mean the lion either way could be anything but he also confirmed Deathwatch getting everything and BA getting Death company on the same stream so he’s 2/2 so far Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WrathOfTheLion Posted November 23, 2020 Share Posted November 23, 2020 (edited) Could be something decent, but not sure what it would be. Getting a single character updated would also be big, as would getting some robed lads. They wouldn't be the biggest thing ever, but they would be big. Could also be something unrelated to our faction, so who knows. Edited November 23, 2020 by WrathOfTheLion Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WARMASTER_ Posted November 23, 2020 Share Posted November 23, 2020 Robed company veterans box would be awesome! It feels about the right time being DA in January I’ll try and find the conversation they had Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WARMASTER_ Posted November 23, 2020 Share Posted November 23, 2020 It’s from the twitch Warhammer 40,000 Studio Q&A 24 mins onwards to around 25 mins now I listen back though not sure if it’s a Xmas hint or a metaphor but it’s about big characters coming back Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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