Genestealers any good?

[Captain Antargo]

I'm mainly asking as I just like their whole look and genetic upgrades just sounds awesome, but I am considering starting a tyranids list, so are they any good and what is their whole purpose and use?

[WarriorFish]

I think their role is largely what you'd expect - fast and killy if not that durable. You can give them a 4+ save but that greatly reduces their speed for little in practical terms for durability so I wouldn't be surprised if this is seldom seen. There's enough AP-1 weaponry around and getting into melee is their best protection against shooting.

 

I had heard much about stealers being one of the better choices for a while and my experiences albeit small seem to mirror this. Gaunts are cheap fodder but can't compare to the output stealers can put out especially with a larger squad to get that bonus attack. With some acid maws on top (and free talons) they have a bit of flexibility but still prefer infantry targets.

 

I'm sure there are some nifty tricks with adaptations, auras, powers, and fleet traits too but I'll leave them to those with more experience It's good that stealers can do well as they're one of the iconic units

[Xenith]

Right at this very moment, they're seen as kind of weak. They went up by 50% in return for no additional killing power or durability. That said, Genestealers have generally always been good.

 

They were a terror in 3rd, scary in 8th, and if they get a point drop or go to a flat AP-2 with the small boards in 9th, they'll be terrifying again. Basically, you can't go wrong. Even if they're not great now, with an old codex, they will be good again at some point. The most important thing to factor in when considering a purchase is this:

 

I'm mainly asking as I just like their whole look and genetic upgrades just sounds awesome, but I am considering starting a tyranids list, so are they any good and what is their whole purpose and use?

 

Buy awesome models, do awesome things with them on the table. You'll always have a good game. 

 

At the moment you start 18" from the opponent a lot of the time. Stealers can move 8" and advance D6", or 3D6 pick highest, for an average of 12"+ move, meaning a 6" charge on turn 1, and that;s before you even get to strats like metabolic overdrive or Hive Commander (both allow you to move again). It's hard to avoid combat with them.

[Reskin]

Right at this very moment, they're seen as kind of weak. They went up by 50% in return for no additional killing power or durability. That said, Genestealers have generally always been good.

 

They were a terror in 3rd, scary in 8th, and if they get a point drop or go to a flat AP-2 with the small boards in 9th, they'll be terrifying again. Basically, you can't go wrong. Even if they're not great now, with an old codex, they will be good again at some point. The most important thing to factor in when considering a purchase is this:

 

I'm mainly asking as I just like their whole look and genetic upgrades just sounds awesome, but I am considering starting a tyranids list, so are they any good and what is their whole purpose and use?

 

Buy awesome models, do awesome things with them on the table. You'll always have a good game. 

 

At the moment you start 18" from the opponent a lot of the time. Stealers can move 8" and advance D6", or 3D6 pick highest, for an average of 12"+ move, meaning a 6" charge on turn 1, and that;s before you even get to strats like metabolic overdrive or Hive Commander (both allow you to move again). It's hard to avoid combat with them.

 

The points increase represents the buff they got from the terrain rules. And I assume are expected to benefit greatly from the way terrain is meant to be used and fielded.

Edited December 3, 2020 by Reskin

[Captain Antargo]

Well... that answers all my questions, thanks all! They're one fast unit!

[Malakithe]

Large units in general now are going to have a harder time with the Blast rules being all over the place

[Reskin]

Large units in general now are going to have a harder time with the Blast rules being all over the place

Genestealers move so fast, they are almost guaranteed a 1st turn charge. Thereby nullifying the blast weapons. If they charge the vehicle with the blast weapon, the vehicle cant fire blast profiles into combat. And units with blast weapons are heavy profile so they also naturally can't fire into combat. 

[WarriorFish]

Indeed, the Blast rule is not something that impacts list building much. The larger units tend to have their own requirements so you'd be taking them anyway, you need the numbers to weather until you get into combat. Blast means you might actually need more to mitigate the extra effectiveness I'm not sure if we're seen a shift to people taking more Blast weapons though, as practically speaking the gains aren't that big and most armies won't be taking large squads anyway as the game tends to favour spreading models out more?

 

So it needs some consideration of course, but other factors are likely more important. As Reskin says the best protection against Blast is combat, and there can't be many units that can boast faster speed than stealers in getting there

[Xenith]

Large units in general now are going to have a harder time with the Blast rules being all over the place

 

The weapon that gets the most benefit from Blast against nids I think is the typhoon launcher, which gets you 12 shots vs a unit of 11 or more. That's 8 hits, maybe 6 wounds, and 5 dead, maybe 4 if you have cover/jormungandr/leviathan. I dont think Blast affects things that naturally want to be in swarms much. 

 

Weirdly the biggest threat is actually D3 shot multidmage weapons like plasma inceptors. They go from being unreliable to murdering units at 6 strong. This actually will make you chage your list to cap warriors, hive guard, zoanthropes at 5 strong, I think.

 

Actually doing the maths, your units are dead against a unit like that regardless. 

 

5 warriors vs 3 plasma executioner inceptors = average 12 shots, 8 hits (2 die from 1's), 6 wounds, 6 dead.

6 warriors = 18 shots, 12 hits, 10 wounds. 10 dead.