Mortis

[1ncarnadine]

like...each perpetual possibly is a collection of lived experiences of other people/perpetuals/shamen?

Sure! That's one way it could work. I'm not hard-set on nailing down what the Emperor is, or the perpetuals. I prefer it to be left open and to fill it with our weird perceptions. There are some really cool theories out there! I like trying to keep them in play, in spite of how much has been revealed lately.

 

 

Sounds like head canon to make a terrible addition bearable.

[DukeLeto69]

I'm not hard-set on nailing down what the Emperor is, or the perpetuals. I prefer it to be left open and to fill it with our weird perceptions. There are some really cool theories out there! I like trying to keep them in play, in spite of how much has been revealed lately.

Personally this does go to the heart of the problem of going back and fleshing out/revealing the ancient history in the lore. I know it was about ££££ and we have had some great stories but maybe, just maybe they should not have touched the HH?

 

It is the same with Dune. The ancient history there (interestingly 10k years before the present) was The Butlerian Jihad which was referred to in the glossary and mentioned by characters but all we knew was it was the catalyst for why they don’t have AI and humanity has evolved with “mentats” or human computers etc. Then Frank Herberts son Brian decides to write some prequels and...big let down, it’s basically Terminator!

 

If the lore has been talking about things and hinting at them for decades, the fans expectations or assumptions can never be met.

Edited April 29, 2021 by DukeLeto69

[Scribe]

I think I've mentioned before, but outside of the 'canon' milestones that we have had for decades I just want one thing.

 

The Emperors admitting he made a deal with Chaos.

 

It's been implied, in the works around Moloch I believe, but I want him to say it, to solidify my theory that the series is really a classical tragedy, and everything is His fault. :)

[b1soul]

I do think the HH series has some excellent gems. The Butlerian Jihad trilogy was just plain bad...really bland writing with flat characters.

 

I'd also argue that the relationship between modern 40K and the HH is more like the relationship between modern Dune (Heretics and Chapter House) and the Leto II-era.

 

The relationship between either modern 40K or the HH and the late DAoT is like the relationship between either modern Dune or the Leto II-era and the Butlerian period.

 

Modern Dune still lives in the shadow of Leto II and many institutions span both periods...but the Butlerian period is truly unrecognizable.

[Marshal Loss]

 

yeah, if every major historical event is 'cos of perpetuals (including the emp) then it removes agency from baseline humanity to affect the world around them

Yeah, but that's only if they actually did live through those events. They could all be weapons left out of the same box, imbued with the memories of dead shaman souls or something. Totally delusional group of warp-spawned not-truly-human monsters. It's not even 100% clear if Oll & co ever leave the warp through most of their journey until they arrive on Terra, or if most of what they're seeing are warp delusions. Traveling through time, or traveling through what the warp is reflecting at you...?

 

At least that's my read, and I'm sticking to it, because it makes perpetuals tolerable for me

 

I like the cut of your jib

[Just123456]

 

like...each perpetual possibly is a collection of lived experiences of other people/perpetuals/shamen?

 

Sure! That's one way it could work. I'm not hard-set on nailing down what the Emperor is, or the perpetuals. I prefer it to be left open and to fill it with our weird perceptions. There are some really cool theories out there! I like trying to keep them in play, in spite of how much has been revealed lately.

 

 

Sounds like head canon to make a terrible addition bearable. :P

 

:whistling:

Doubtful. The DAOT notion is from a war criminal who was executed for stealing water, so she is unreliable and would purposefully mislead. And ADB discredited it on Reddit. And Oll Persson has things that prove the memories of The Perpetuals. And he was one of Jason's Argonauts.

 

The Cabal recruited Damon Prytanis at Iwo Jima. So the memories are real.

Edited April 30, 2021 by Just123456

[1ncarnadine]

Doubtful. The DAOT notion is from a war criminal who was executed for stealing water, so she is unreliable and would purposefully mislead. And ADB discredited it on Reddit. And Oll Persson has things that prove the memories of The Perpetuals. And he was one of Jason's Argonauts.

 

The Cabal recruited Damon Prytanis at Iwo Jima. So the memories are real.

 

It was an idea bounced around outside of print, too. And I've seen ADB discredit anyone that tries to firmly define things one way or another. I've learned not to judge anything based on "but the author said this...." and I've been personally responsible for a fair amount of that. I don't think they appreciate when we weaponize anything they say to pull "actually"s on each other.

 

But I did completely forget Damon Prytanis even existed, frankly. Some of the perpetuals just blur together in my head. I don't know man, I could probably come up with something if I read back to whatever he's in (Old Earth?), but that seems like a waste of time when I'm confident I could do the mental gymnastics. I'm going to skip the step where I do the work and just assume I made it work. That's how invested I am in the perpetual plot stuff.

[Just123456]

 

Doubtful. The DAOT notion is from a war criminal who was executed for stealing water, so she is unreliable and would purposefully mislead. And ADB discredited it on Reddit. And Oll Persson has things that prove the memories of The Perpetuals. And he was one of Jason's Argonauts.

The Cabal recruited Damon Prytanis at Iwo Jima. So the memories are real.

 

It was an idea bounced around outside of print, too. And I've seen ADB discredit anyone that tries to firmly define things one way or another. I've learned not to judge anything based on "but the author said this...." and I've been personally responsible for a fair amount of that. I don't think they appreciate when we weaponize anything they say to pull "actually"s on each other.

But I did completely forget Damon Prytanis even existed, frankly. Some of the perpetuals just blur together in my head. I don't know man, I could probably come up with something if I read back to whatever he's in (Old Earth?), but that seems like a waste of time when I'm confident I could do the mental gymnastics. I'm going to skip the step where I do the work and just assume I made it work. That's how invested I am in the perpetual plot stuff.

Where was it bounced around outside of print? ADB said we can safely say Koja Zu is wrong, and that was over two years ago on Reddit.

 

And ADB is not one to set things in stone and is vague about everything. And with all the fluff meetings ADB has been to, we can trust him.

Edited April 30, 2021 by Just123456

[Lucien Eilam]

I'm three quarters in and I'm continuously thinking " this should've been 2 or 3 novellas".

 

If you read the author’s notes at the back, it seems this book was never part of the original plan. The novel exists basically just because John was sad about not getting to write any more Heresy/Siege stuff after finishing The Solar War.

 

I don’t begrudge him that, it’s as well-written as ever and personally I always get a real kick out of John’s depictions of Titan/Knight combat.

 

But I think all the really meaty post-Saturnine plot points were probably already earmarked for the rest of the series, and a lot of this would otherwise have been sub-plots in other novels, short stories or just glossed over completely. I wouldn’t be surprised to see Abaddon reporting back to Horus after the Saturnine Wall fiasco in A D-B’s entry, for example, so they couldn’t do it here.

[Just123456]

Perpetuals are not objectively good or bad for the setting. They're "modern" 40K's version of the old Sensei lore (and arguably less ridiculous than the Sensei).

My main gripe with Mortis is...do we really need a SoT novel focusing on Titans? Why not just keep Titans in the background?

The SoT is like the climactic weeks of the Illiad . It should, IMO, focus on Primarch and Astartes struggles with other forces forming the backdrop. Each SoT main entry is precious. A book on Titans is a bit of waste really.

As for Perpetuals, Imperial Army, Cultists, Titans, Arik Taranis, Emperor's Children depravery and the like...only have them enter the SoT main entries if/when their actions would be critical to plot advancement. Their less-than-critical activities could be covered in SoT anthologies or non-limited edition novellas.

of

 

Do you want to try contacting Dan Abnett about studying on the Upper Paleolithic? So he can be historically accurate on that time if he writes about Oll Persson's life back then.

 

I would contact him, though he is hard to get to.

Edited April 30, 2021 by Just123456

[Petitioner's City]

 

 

I'm three quarters in and I'm continuously thinking " this should've been 2 or 3 novellas".

If you read the author’s notes at the back, it seems this book was never part of the original plan. The novel exists basically just because John was sad about not getting to write any more Heresy/Siege stuff after finishing The Solar War.

 

I don’t begrudge him that, it’s as well-written as ever and personally I always get a real kick out of John’s depictions of Titan/Knight combat.

 

But I think all the really meaty post-Saturnine plot points were probably already earmarked for the rest of the series, and a lot of this would otherwise have been sub-plots in other novels, short stories or just glossed over completely. I wouldn’t be surprised to see Abaddon reporting back to Horus after the Saturnine Wall fiasco in A D-B’s entry, for example, so they couldn’t do it here.

I wouldn't say that is quite the implication of what he writes in the afterword...

 

 

‘Stories, memories… Live long enough, John, and you see the past coming around wearing a different face.’

 

I came back for more.

 

A bit of context: The Solar War was a tough book to write. By the end of it I was exhausted, and emotional, and relieved that it was over. Then we had the next Siege of Terra writers’ meeting, and I found I was strangely sad. You see, writing these books is like no other writing experience I have ever had. They are so complicated, and demand so much research and preparation before you touch the keyboard or write a word. We have a joke amongst the Siege of Terra writers that you can think you know what it will be like, then you start writing one and you realise that you had no idea. It’s become tradition for the latest incumbent of ‘writing the next book’ to arrive at meetings with what we have come to refer to as ‘that look’ in their eyes. It’s such hard, challenging work, but it is incredible and exhilarating like nothing else.

 

You aren’t alone, though. The Siege of Terra writers and editors are there, on the end of a call, responding on long email strings to questions and debates that run for days and weeks. We are a unit, a team – the best collaborative team I have ever been a part of, in fact. While you are pushing and dragging the next block of the story up the wall, you know that the people with you have done the same or are going to do the same.

 

So, why was I a bit sad? Nick Kyme asked me the same thing, and I said, ‘Because I won’t get to do that again. That is it for me, now.’

He smiled and said: ‘It doesn’t have to be.’

So, I came back for more.

 

And it was just like writing The Solar War and nothing like it at all.

 

Journeys in the wasteland

 

‘Where we are supposed to be…’ he said, half to himself. In truth he was a long way now from where he thought he needed to be. That place was a couple of thousand kilometres off across the wasteland that had once been a sea.

 

This book is a story of journeys and transitions. What does that mean? Well, in one way it is a theme of the book. There are lots of people literally trying to get somewhere: from Shiban on his trek through the ruins of the Greater Palace, to Oll and his crew trying to find John, to the Legio Mortis moving inexorably towards the Mercury Wall, and a few more besides. Journeys are an old feature of stories, maybe the oldest, and they are rarely just about the locations that the characters pass through; they are about change – and that is what this book is about, too.

 

When I was planning it and talking to the other writers, it became clear that over and above any plot or character details, this book needed to bridge the early part of the Siege into the later, frantic, desperate, feral war of the closing phases. The way the war is being fought moves from the rational strategy of Perturabo, grinding against Dorn’s calculated sacrifices, to a war of the irrational, of the supernatural, of the mind and soul. The optimism of the defenders begins to roll down the hill into despair. The ideals that characters clung to in the past begin to break under the pressure of what they are facing.

 

‘Where am I?’ he asked.

‘A different world,’ said Torghun.

‘Still on Terra?’

‘The land changes,’ said Yesugei’s voice. ‘The place is the same, but it is not the land you walked before. The fulcrum tips. The past came here to die, and this is just one death amongst many.’

‘The death of what?’ he asked.

‘The death of the wars we fought and the lies we told ourselves as we fought them.’

 

As with Shiban in this passage, many of the characters can see and feel the shift in the universe they are part of. The ideals, lies and hopes of the Great Crusade have been breaking and coming apart since the beginning of the Horus Heresy, but this is the point where lots and lots of things finally start to take on the shape they will hold in the long drop into darkness of the next ten thousand years.

 

‘What am I being recruited into?’

‘A just and necessary cause.’

Mauer laughed. ‘That’s how it always starts.’

[…]

Rogal Dorn looked at Archamus.

‘Give the word to Zagreus Kane and the wall commanders. Open the weapon reserves. All of them.’ He looked back at the kneeling Ordo Sinister prefect.

‘Rise,’ he said, ‘and by my will, walk.’

[…]

‘She thinks of means to ends, and once she has an end in sight, everything and everyone is just a means. I would not trust her too much if I were you, boetharch…’ He paused, and gave a sad smile. ‘In fact, trust no one might be a wiser maxim.’

[…]

He thought of the tower, all that time ago, of the knife in his belt now and the lightning falling from the sky. Small choices. Big choices. After enough time they were the same thing.

 

And in particular, this is the point where the inhuman forces at play are reaching a peak of potency.

 

Dreams and despair

 

‘Why did you do this?’ she asked, quietly.

He twitched. A red bubble grew from his lips, burst.

‘Waking is despair…’ he sputtered. ‘They will dream forever now.’

 

Under the surface of events in this book are two poles that are pulling the seams of reality apart. On the one side there is despair. The despair of people who have been fighting and fighting, and getting pushed back, inch by inch; who have been watching people die, who are exhausted and for whom hope is starting to seem like a lie. They have won victories, they have held, but things are not getting better. The victory of the Saturnine Wall was yesterday, and all it bought was another day of crushing effort and loss. On top of this is the fact that, at this moment of the Siege, the full power of the warp is focused on Terra and the Palace. The despair of all those who are running out of something to hold on to finds an answer in the psychic realm, which in turn feeds back into the despair people feel, and the effect accelerates.

 

At the other pole is the desperate wish to escape suffering. This need also finds an echo in the warp, and that echo creates impossible dreams of escape, and paradise. Mortis is deliberately dotted with dreams, and people falling and waking, and talking about dreams. These dreams are almost universally a bad thing – you don’t want to dream, because while sleep and dreams might offer release and escape, they are predatory. Dream and you are going to have your soul ripped apart, and when you wake you will do anything to go back to the dreams. So, the defenders of the Palace are being crushed and then pulled apart as two forces in the warp mirror and feed on their hope and suffering. These two forces, of course, have names: Nurgle and Slaanesh, the Chaos gods of decay, despair and plague; and of pleasure and excess.

 

Which brings us to paradise.

 

Paradise

 

‘The song of paradise brings people and then this place gives them the endless dream they want,’ said John. ‘And the Emperor’s Children take what they want in turn.’

‘Fruit from the orchard,’ muttered Zybes. ‘Wine from the vine.’

 

One of the oldest pieces of background about the Siege of Terra talks about Fulgrim and the Emperor’s Children becoming disinterested in the main siege and turning on the population of Terra. One of the questions the Siege writers talked about a lot was how this fitted with everything else that was going on. Was it an interesting side note about the final and complete fall of the III Legion, or did it say something more about the wider context of what is happening at this stage of the battle? We chose the second option.

 

By this point the Emperor’s Children and the Death Guard, and the other god-bound Legions, have stopped acting according to their own ideals and wills. They are thralls to the waxing powers of the Chaos gods, their actions aligning with the drives of those deities like weathervanes caught in a gale. So what the Emperor’s Children are doing is not just getting bored and going off to do terrible things; they are remaking Terra in the vision of their god. They are making an earthly paradise, just a paradise that is not a dream but a nightmare. The horror heaped on top of this is that the people who are caught in paradise went there willingly, drawn by dreams and trying to outrun despair.

 

‘It’s okay,’ said Ugent Sye, voice rolling over the shrieking. Oll forced himself up, gun up, stock to shoulder, finger to trigger. Sye was moving back towards Krank, unhurried. There was red liquid on his lips and chin. The bitten fruit was in his hand. Its outer golden flesh was oozing juice, its core red and wet and twitching. Ugent Sye’s teeth were pink in his smile, his eyes bright. The rags shimmering in the light falling between the leaves. He seemed bright, a light source moving the shadows around him as he stepped forwards.

 

In stories and symbolism, paradise is often associated with gardens – the idea of plants and fruit and flowers and growth. So it seemed interesting to see the paradises made by Fulgrim’s followers as gardens, but with something rotten and horrible under the plump, ripe surface; something squirming and bloody.

 

The fire of defiance

 

For those that commanded the Titans of the Legio Ignatum the manifold was not a mechanism or interchange of command. It was fire. Divine fire. A world made by the lightning between man and divine machine, life lived in the flash of a thunderbolt.

Incarnated.

Burning.

Incandescence…

 

Things are pretty bleak for the defenders of the Palace, but standing in direct contrast to that are the Titans and crew of the Legio Ignatum, the Fire Wasps. Every Titan legion is unique, stamped with their own character, traditions and way of relating to the machines they bring to war. Looking at the Legio Ignatum and talking with the writers and designers at Forge World, we decided to make the Fire Wasps’ character echo their outward appearance. They are strutting war peacocks, filled with fire and optimism. Their drive to win, to overcome anything sent against them is total. They have vast self-belief, not the haughty kind of arrogance, but a down-in-the-bone certainty that they can face and defeat anything.

 

‘I wish the data were not as it is, but above all I am a servant of the machine’s truth – annihilation is coming.’

[…]

No, said a voice that he knew was his own. There is only one way, and that way is forward. We are strength enough. We are victory!

Reginae Furorem moved to his will. Enemy strikes lit the distance.

<All units, cohere and maintain fire – we are victory!>

 

Their crews are a bit irreverent, both with each other and with those outside their Legio, but they are utterly unified, their instincts so imprinted between crew and machines that they behave with incredible coordination. Having a set of characters like this was important to push against the current of the book – in the face of annihilation we have people who are not crushed but ready to get up, to go forwards as everyone and everything else is going backwards.

 

High in the skull of Magnificum Incendius, Princeps Maximus Cydon saw the kill-zone through the light of the incandescence. His engine, the wondrous link to his Machine-God, smouldered with rage and exultation. Its spirit was old and vast. Others of its kind crushed the minds of those that guided them, but his engine was a Warmonger of the Emperor class of Titans, and its purpose was to break cities and watch civilisations die. The currents of its spirit were like the tides of magma beneath an old volcano, slow and relentless. All things bowed to its might in the end, all enemies, all who stood against it. The old enemy, the Death’s Heads would come no further.

[…]

In Cydon’s mind he held it as an image painted in crimson and night. This would be the end, the moment his Legio’s soul was laid bare; faced with the impossible, where there was no way to victory, they would make one.

 

This, of course, also helps underline the point that events have reached when even these indomitable men, women and machines are not enough to stop the Legio Mortis reaching the walls.

 

Seeds of the future

 

‘We are not gods!’ Oll heard himself shout. ‘We can’t tilt the world on its edge or carry it on our backs. Try to and we will only make it worse. What about leaving things to figure themselves out? What about letting people choose?’

‘Let them choose, and they will kill the future.’

‘That is not our judgement to make.’

‘Is it not?’

 

The Siege of Terra series is about more than just the huge and spectacular battles; it is also about the few, often forgotten, people whose actions make a greater difference than their numbers might suggest. They are the people who start the stories that will become the myths of Warhammer 40,000, who do the unremembered deed, and who change the course of events out of sight, in the shadow of greater moments. There are a few of them in Mortis: Oll and his crew make a return to the stage and join up with John Grammaticus and Leetu; Andromeda-17 and Hellick Mauer join with Sindermann and Keeler, and bump into Amon and Basilio Fo; then, of course, you have a certain blind lady psyker called Actae and her… companion. Where are they going? What are they doing, and why?

 

Well, the why is actually fairly simple: they are all trying to save the future.

 

No, they really are. They just might all have very, very different ideas about how to do it and what that future might be.

 

Let me just head something off right now – I am not going to clear up what happened in the story here. Is he or she really X or Y? Did Z really happen? Is this person going to do U, V or W? Sorry, but you will have to wait and see. Feel free to guess though – that’s half the fun, after all.

 

But you can see some of the ideas that will have consequences for the next ten thousand years in what these characters are thinking and doing.

 

‘We have the same business. The preservation of humanity in the face of annihilation, and the survival of the Emperor.’

[…]

+The truth,+ she said, +is that the realm of the gods cannot be destroyed. The warp is and was and will be forever. We can either be its slaves or its rulers. This is the moment where we decide which it shall be.+

[…]

‘It would be a lie,’ said Keeler, after a moment. ‘I would renounce the right to speak the truth of the Emperor’s divinity, to be free, and that renunciation would be a lie.’

‘A necessary one,’ said Sindermann. ‘A lie to serve a greater truth.’

[…]

‘The straight-line plans will fail – all plans will fail. The only way a solution emerges is through random chance. […] From that, strength and survival might emerge. The more factors there are in play, the more threat, the fewer clean patterns and plans, the more chance we have…’

[…]

‘But all in the service of a higher ideal,’ said John.

‘It always is.’

 

This is another step in the Siege writers very deliberately sowing multiple seeds for the future history of Warhammer 40,000 to grow from. Why? Because it is more interesting and surprising, and because it is more plausible that the stories of the future would not match reality. Ten thousand years pass between the events of these books and the Dark Millennium. The people of that time, if they know anything of the Horus Heresy, don’t know fact. They know stories have grown and twisted and merged from multiple people and events. How was the Inquisition formed? Who was Moriana? Who was Ollanius the Pious? Who saved who and how? How did the belief in the God-Emperor take hold in a broken, formally secular society? Reality is not clean, and neither are stories. So, how shall these few lone souls change the future? Well, that’s still to be told…

 

A little further

 

…Because there is still a little more to be told – not in this book but those that follow. I took a few indulgent lines in the afterword for The Solar War to talk about what the Horus Heresy had meant to me, and what it was like to be at the start of the end of such a journey. And here we are again, and so I must ask you again for a brief indulgence for a personal note.

 

Dan Abnett and I had a long set of conversations while I was starting this book and he was finishing Saturnine – we talked about synchronicity in creativity and the way that there are often coincidences that just occur, themes and patterns that emerge in the process. It’s something we had both noticed. More than a few times in the space of this series things just clicked and connected. There were moments when the writers of these books have literally shouted with surprise as ideas old and new just meshed as though made for each other. The Siege of Terra has been littered with them too.

 

It’s a strange thing, though I guess not unexpected.

 

As I neared the finish of the book, the world in a space of weeks started to shut down during the pandemic; fear and uncertainty and change crept in. Here in the real world that we all share. Tragedies occurred both small and large, and after all, is there really a difference between the two to those that suffer? And then I found myself reading the last pages back as I did edits just this last week, and wondering if – just as Mersadie in The Solar War had spoken to the fact that I will miss this series when it is done – Katsuhiro, a character we never knew would survive past his first appearance, was perhaps speaking to the nature of how history and stories are made, and what it is to live through the times where they are born:

 

‘You know…’ he began. Steena opened her eyes and looked at him. ‘One day this will be over. All this will be done. Time will pass and they will rebuild on this spot. Statues and roads and fountains filled with water. Right here where we are now. People will walk and talk, and they will worry about things they think matter. They will laugh at jokes and frown at what they think are insults, and when they pause on this spot it will be because they have dropped something, or wish to rest, or to talk a little longer. Look and listen and you can see them. Not out there,’ he jerked his head at the parapet, then tapped his forehead and heart, ‘but in here, you can see them. They will stand here one day and know what happened only as stories that will be kinder than the living of them was.’

 

We are almost at the point when we can look back at these times and this impossibly vast story and truly see the incredible journey it was. For now, though, come with us a little further. No backward step.

 

John French

Nottingham

July 2020

 

 

Edited April 30, 2021 by Petitioner's City

[Scribe]

Thx for that Petitioners City.

 

Both an enticing glimpse at what could have been (and I know French is great) and some very clear words on my exact issue that I suspected was fact. :D

[Taliesin]

Question: French has some interesting warp scenes in this book between The Emperor and Horus, and he did that in Solar War as well, but have none of the other authors picked up on that? I did a quick browse through books 2 and 3 for instance and didnt find any, did I miss it? What about Saturnine?

[Bobss]

Question: French has some interesting warp scenes in this book between The Emperor and Horus, and he did that in Solar War as well, but have none of the other authors picked up on that? I did a quick browse through books 2 and 3 for instance and didnt find any, did I miss it? What about Saturnine?

 

There are none in Saturnine

 

In fact, Abnett points out that Malcador, in the presence of Jenetia Krole, is an even frailer old man than usual. Her enormous null aura is stripping his guise of being... a less frail old man, I guess? It's literally pointed out when they're all chatting together. It clashes with the second Emps Vs. Horus warp-sequence in The Solar War in which Malcador appears as a young man dressed in gold. Don't get me wrong, a warp-sequence is a warp-sequence at the end of the day, and Malcador could've appeared to Emps as Britney Spears, but it supports the theory some people hold that Malcador's frailty is a glamour - similar to Emps being a relic from the DAOT, although apparently believing that will cause ADB to break into my house and murder my family (but I think I'll take the risk)

 

It's like Jaghatai Khan being a prick to several senior officers in the Bhab Bastion despite the Khan's usual shrewdness when dealing with humans, notably Illya Ravallion (best woman) and Su-Kassen (second-best woman - Lotara Who?)

 

Fortunately for Abnett, Saturnine is good enough to cover these moments up

Edited April 30, 2021 by Bobss

[Just123456]

 

Question: French has some interesting warp scenes in this book between The Emperor and Horus, and he did that in Solar War as well, but have none of the other authors picked up on that? I did a quick browse through books 2 and 3 for instance and didnt find any, did I miss it? What about Saturnine?

 

There are none in Saturnine

 

In fact, Abnett points out that Malcador, in the presence of Jenetia Krole, is an even frailer old man than usual. Her enormous null aura is stripping his guise of being... a less frail old man, I guess? It's literally pointed out when they're all chatting together. It clashes with the second Emps Vs. Horus warp-sequence in The Solar War in which Malcador appears as a young man dressed in gold. Don't get me wrong, a warp-sequence is a warp-sequence at the end of the day, and Malcador could've appeared to Emps as Britney Spears, but it supports the theory some people hold that Malcador's frailty is a glamour - similar to Emps being a relic from the DAOT, although apparently believing that will cause ADB to break into my house and murder my family (but I think I'll take the risk)

 

It's like Jaghatai Khan being a prick to several senior officers in the Bhab Bastion despite the Khan's usual shrewdness when dealing with humans, notably Illya Ravallion (best woman) and Su-Kassen (second-best woman - Lotara Who?)

 

Fortunately for Abnett, Saturnine is good enough to cover these moments up

The Emperor being from the DAOT is from an unreliable narrator (a character who was executed for stealing water). While we are at it, why don't we say Erebus is proof the Emperor wants to become a God?

 

And the Perpetuals such as Oll Persson discredit it. And if that is not enough, then the Athame short story shows the Emperor fighting a Chaos follower named Gog. The Athame short story is from the perspective of the Athame blade, as it has a sort of consciousness.

Edited May 1, 2021 by Just123456

[Roomsky]

Mortis – John French

 

Starting with a disclaimer: I like this book. A lot. I recognize it has several shortcomings, and will try to address them fairly, but I’m going to be writing this review (as is the case for most of my reviews) purely based on my response and not really with any attempt to be objective. Apply this knowledge to my comments.

 

Mortis. Siege book 5. Why was this series 8 books? We’re over half way through and still nobody knows.

 

The good news is that this book is great. Or, at least, near everything I was looking for out of it is delivered upon splendidly.

 

On John French

 

My last few book reviews have decried “lore-bibles,” which put reveals and continuity ahead of story. I’m never impressed by those because they have a habit of making the universe feel small, and many an otherwise good book has broken down because of an obsession over lining up with periphery works.  But, there is a quality that books can have beyond story that a sucker for:

 

Atmosphere.

 

Atmosphere is why I love John French. He’s a master of the 40k universe being a depressing, cruel, oppressive nightmare, the Imperium especially. Everything he writes has the weight of history smothering the present; ritual and dogma and prejudice are evident in every culture he builds. Never is French’s Imperium shallow. And it’s not as though he’s applying 40k atmosphere to 30k either, the Emperor-lead Imperium has its own variations of all of this, and it’s awesome.

 

This book is absolutely dripping with French’s skill with atmosphere, and is another demonstration of why I believe he gets the universe better than almost any other writer in the stable (I even think he beats out several writers more generally skilled than he is.)

 

I lamented internally after reading Annandale’s Deacon of Wounds that the Heresy, and even the Siege, felt so banal and tame compared to what was happening to some unknown backwater. With Mortis, that is no longer the case. French makes you feel like this battle really is the end of the galaxy. Terra has become saturated with the power of Chaos; The Emperor’s efforts to keep it from becoming a daemon world make it more impactful due to the corruption being less comically obvious than in other works.

 

Make no mistake, this book is a depressing slog. I love it because it is a depressing slog (the slog of slogs!). That, for me, the essence of the universe, especially factions like Chaos and the Imperium. Shiban walks broken across no man’s land to save one dude and a baby (something which he only half succeeds in.) Oll Persson spirals through hallucinations before encountering the Emperor’s Children turning people into quivering flesh trees. Katsuhiro holds a fortification of no consequence against endless hordes of undead. Acastia is abused relentlessly by her half-brother before being forced to kill him. And it goes on, and on, because there is no hope for any but Dorn, and we already know his hope is false. Never have I read a Black Library book where an engagement (one I know the protagonists will eventually win, no less) seemed so soul-crushing.

 

In an alternate universe where the Heresy was never a series, but an author got to write one mid-Heresy book, I would want a book much like this. I know many are here for astartes, but I’ve thought the overuse of marines and primarchs has been a major shortcoming of it all for a while now. This book of ground-level perspectives while the apocalyptic Siege of Terra unfolds is a dream come true.

 

Looking at the length of what I’ve already written, I’m going to section the rest by character/plot thread so I don’t write something comparable to Mortis in length.

 

 

Oll Persson

 

Now, I think people undersell French’s character writing, but I did mention that atmosphere can help me appreciate a story in spite of its shortcomings. This book is not French’s strongest when it comes to the characters, and Oll is at the centre of it - being he’s the closest thing it has to a protagonist.

 

Oll’s crew feels less well-rounded than when Abnett introduced them, though that’s hardly atypical when following up Abnett. They were serviceable, but I was hardly weeping when Bale Rane died. Grammaticus too is fine, nothing exceptional, though he does bring some much needed levity to his surroundings.

 

Oll himself is hard to get a read on here. Abnett painted him as very much “some guy who happens to be immortal.” Sure, he’s been involved in some serious , but there wasn’t much grand or mythic about him. Mortis gives us Oll, The Emperor’s old pal who blew up the tower of Babel and who was friends with Theseus, who was real apparently. I’m not bothered by perpetual stuff (except for Prytanis, who was insufferable,) but this is a lot. That said, Oll does have a decent arc throughout, and I think it was important to know him better now that this book’s set up what it has for the Siege’s final acts. I’m just mixed on the decisions made. His immortality also undercuts the horror of his situation a bit – honestly Grammaticus probably should have been the POV in these chapters, as he could feasibly be killed (though I suppose being an immortal in the hands of Emperor’s Children is probably the galaxy’s second worst possible fate.)

 

Speaking of horror, the journey of Oll and co. was sick. The introduction, premise, and execution of Paradise are :cussing metal as hell. The Emperor’s Children in general are terrifying in this book; if you were let down by their portrayal in Saturnine, worry not because they are abominations in Mortis. Every legionary is an enormous threat, every description of them is blood curdling, and what they were doing to people in paradise is no better. The scene with the fruit will stick with me for quite a while.

 

 

Tetracauron

 

The books other “protagonist.”

 

Tetracauron is unfortunately just a vehicle to deliver Titan segments. Well written Titan segments, yes. What I would give to go back in time and give French Titandeath. But the man himself is barely a character. There’s no real growth and besides an excellent introductory scene he’s not too interesting either.

 

The titan action, however, delivered in a way I didn’t know I wanted. I’ve always thought they were cool conceptually, but no one really ever delivered on the ritual I like out of Mechanicus-adjacent factions, not even Abnett (though Titanicus is a better book.) But, as mentioned with French’s strengths, the Titan stuff here is exactly what I was looking for. The ritual, the politicking, the complexity of Titan warfare, it’s all spot on.

 

This does take up a substantial portion of the book, and much of it is action scenes. I was never bored with the fightan, despite the admittedly excessive length, as French seems to throw something new into the mix with each chapter. Would I have preferred a Tallarn-style summary of events? Probably, but I’m sure French wasn’t eager to get roasted for that a second time.

 

 

Acastia

 

Acastia is far more interesting than Tetracauron, but again the highlight is the culture she inhabits. I don’t think I’ve seen a whipping boy used in 40k before, but I appreciated the further expansion of Knight Houses French gives despite limited screen time. Not much else to say, as much of her scenes are sharing a battlefield with Tetracauron.

 

(Caradoc is a .)

 

 

Mauer, Sindermann, Keeler, etc.

 

Come on guys and gals, be fair. The Siege is picking up the threads of the mainline series, and has hardly assassinated them all. If you don’t care about (or actively dislike) Oll, or the Remembrancers, etc. it doesn’t mean it’s not a legitimate through line to be taking. I personally still like them all.

 

Mauer is the newcomer and gets an excellent introduction before meeting up with Sindermann in another effort to spread faith to combat Chaos’ passive influence on the population (a major problem that this book describes in frightening detail.) I like her a lot in her solo chapters and I think its unfortunate she takes a bit of a back seat once the series veterans show up. That said, Andromeda is as fun as ever and Fo gets to be more than a plot device here. I enjoyed these sections but they felt a bit more like connective tissue than most of the book’s plots. I’m certainly hungry for more though.

 

 

Shiban Khan

 

One of two Space Marine POVs, and it’s a broken man limping through the desert. If that doesn’t encapsulate this books tone I don’t know what does.

 

Shiban is, thankfully, alive after his Abnettian cliffhanger in Saturnine and is forced to walk back to the Palace. Along the way he experiences hallucinations of Targutei and Torghun, already a good thing as we never really got to see Shiban reflect hard on their deaths. This segment is one long fever dream until he meets a man and a miraculously surviving baby out in the wreckage surrounding the combat zones.

 

It’s a simple and straightforward plot that works for all its desolation. The theme of despair is on full display here and I love the hopelessness of it all. Shiban finally meeting some fellow Imperials but ultimately choosing to continue on dazed and alone is as tragic as it is climactic.

 

 

Katsuhiro

 

Great stuff, to the point I wish he had more screen time. Katsuhiro is forced to embrace some degree of leadership here instead of being tossed around by fate, and it’s a wonderful scene. Katsuhiro’s segments are the best “ground-level” portions of the book due to how fragile he and his companions are. That and the things he has to fight.

 

The opening with gunships dropping rainbow pain dust on them, while they encounter Noise Marines is the kind of more out-there I want to be seeing at the Siege. Even so, French manages to make the umpteenth scene with Plague Marines and undead the most memorable out of all of them (including a very atmospheric drive-by for Mortarion.)

 

The Heresy is supposed to be the biggest, worst thing to ever happen to the Imperium, but viewing overmuch through the lenses of gods really makes it feel small. The little people, that one poor conscript down in the trenches, we need those POVs to be reminded of the size of all this. And these segments do it beautifully.

 

 

Corswain

 

Well, we finally know what happened to the Emperor’s flagship.

 

I’m a bit lukewarm on these sections. French didn’t really have the space to give the Dark Angels his usual attention to detail, so it ends up being another somewhat milquetoast view of the legion and its cast.

 

If anything, Corswain pushed the book a bit out of the action sweetspot by being scattered between all the titan combat segments. Seeing Oll and Co. travel through hell, or Katsuhiro cowering in a ditch really broke up those set pieces for the benefit of pacing in a way that Corswain’s fight to the Hollow Mountain doesn’t quite accomplish.

 

They’re pretty good in a vacuum though, and the Hollow Mountain Daemon was quite something.

 

The pros are somewhat undermined by Vassago’s final scene being what I’d call the only instance of poor writing in the book. It reads like a parody of a cliffhanger, so over the top is it.

 

 

The Emperor and Horus Interludes

 

These scenes seemed to be the favourite in The Solar War, and I imagine that will be the case here as well. The Emperor and his wayward son are once again meeting in the realm of metaphor, this time with Emps as a dying man (and, incidentally, a drying man) in the desert while the merciless sun saps his strength. Horus appears as before, spouting the usual accusations. I won’t say its breaking new ground, but the scenes are evocative, especially Malcador’s brief visit.

 

What they do accomplish better than The Solar Wars’ is acting as a parallel to the goings-on across Terra, with Chaos slowly baking itself into the planet’s surface.

 

 

Perturabo

 

Pert gets three, apparently controversial chapters. I of course enjoyed them because I think French is the Perturabo writer (madness, I know.)

 

I think many people misread this scene. It’s not simply distaste with Chaos, its Horus telling Pert in no uncertain terms that he can go himself.

 

Pert, throughout the Heresy, has had to learn to swallow his pride. Phall was a disaster. Iydris was a disaster. Tallarn was a disaster. He comes out on top of Slaves to Darkness because he’s started to accept his place in the universe, to roll with the punches and make his circumstances his own, instead of raging in futility. He’s stopped blaming others for his misguided expectations and really developed his own kind of agency. This is demonstrated superbly in Saturnine, where he uses his circumstances to give himself a win-win against Fulgrim and Dorn without having to do things in the most masochistic way possible.

 

Now Horus, who had earned Pert’s loyalty with literally one promise, has broken that promise. “Yes Pert, go spend your son’s lives in grinding attrition warfare.” Its regression for Perty, its crap he’s grown beyond. It’s also an obvious demonstration that Horus doesn’t value or respect him any more than Daddy E, or the Fists for that matter.

 

Pert noping out of there shows he’s learned from his mistakes. It’s a dramatic version of “not this again.”

 

All I can say is: good for him.

 

Conclusion

 

This will not be a book for everyone. It was, however, a book for me.

 

The prose is a joy. The tone is superb. The action is satisfying and damnit, it’s just the kind of book I want to see more of, despite its flaws.

 

This is a solid 8.5 out of 10, as much as it’s a hard To Taste. Some people are going to despise this. I personally liked it better than Solar War.

 

 

Current Siege Ranking:

 

Saturnine > Mortis > The Solar War > Fury of Magnus > Sons of the Selenar > The First Wall > Lost and the Damned

Edited May 1, 2021 by Roomsky

[Just123456]

 

Mortis – John French

Starting with a disclaimer: I like this book. A lot. I recognize it has several shortcomings, and will try to address them fairly, but I’m going to be writing this review (as is the case for most of my reviews) purely based on my response and not really with any attempt to be objective. Apply this knowledge to my comments.

 

Mortis. Siege book 5. Why was this series 8 books? We’re over half way through and still nobody knows.

 

The good news is that this book is great. Or, at least, near everything I was looking for out of it is delivered upon splendidly.

 

 

On John French

My last few book reviews have decried “lore-bibles,” which put reveals and continuity ahead of story. I’m never impressed by those because they have a habit of making the universe feel small, and many an otherwise good book has broken down because of an obsession over lining up with periphery works. But, there is a quality that books can have beyond story that a sucker for:

 

Atmosphere.

 

Atmosphere is why I love John French. He’s a master of the 40k universe being a depressing, cruel, oppressive nightmare, the Imperium especially. Everything he writes has the weight of history smothering the present; ritual and dogma and prejudice are evident in every culture he builds. Never is French’s Imperium shallow. And it’s not as though he’s applying 40k atmosphere to 30k either, the Emperor-lead Imperium has its own variations of all of this, and it’s awesome.

 

This book is absolutely dripping with French’s skill with atmosphere, and is another demonstration of why I believe he gets the universe better than almost any other writer in the stable (I even think he beats out several writers more generally skilled than he is.)

 

I lamented internally after reading Annandale’s Deacon of Wounds that the Heresy, and even the Siege, felt so banal and tame compared to what was happening to some unknown backwater. With Mortis, that is no longer the case. French makes you feel like this battle really is the end of the galaxy. Terra has become saturated with the power of Chaos; The Emperor’s efforts to keep it from becoming a daemon world make it more impactful due to the corruption being less comically obvious than in other works.

 

Make no mistake, this book is a depressing slog. I love it because it is a depressing slog (the slog of slogs!). That, for me, the essence of the universe, especially factions like Chaos and the Imperium. Shiban walks broken across no man’s land to save one dude and a baby (something which he only half succeeds in.) Oll Persson spirals through hallucinations before encountering the Emperor’s Children turning people into quivering flesh trees. Katsuhiro holds a fortification of no consequence against endless hordes of undead. Acastia is abused relentlessly by her half-brother before being forced to kill him. And it goes on, and on, because there is no hope for any but Dorn, and we already know his hope is false. Never have I read a Black Library book where an engagement (one I know the protagonists will eventually win, no less) seemed so soul-crushing.

 

In an alternate universe where the Heresy was never a series, but an author got to write one mid-Heresy book, I would want a book much like this. I know many are here for astartes, but I’ve thought the overuse of marines and primarchs has been a major shortcoming of it all for a while now. This book of ground-level perspectives while the apocalyptic Siege of Terra unfolds is a dream come true.

 

Looking at the length of what I’ve already written, I’m going to section the rest by character/plot thread so I don’t write something comparable to Mortis in length.

 

 

 

Oll Persson

Now, I think people undersell French’s character writing, but I did mention that atmosphere can help me appreciate a story in spite of its shortcomings. This book is not French’s strongest when it comes to the characters, and Oll is at the centre of it - being he’s the closest thing it has to a protagonist.

 

Oll’s crew feels less well-rounded than when Abnett introduced them, though that’s hardly atypical when following up Abnett. They were serviceable, but I was hardly weeping when Bale Rane died. Grammaticus too is fine, nothing exceptional, though he does bring some much needed levity to his surroundings.

 

Oll himself is hard to get a read on here. Abnett painted him as very much “some guy who happens to be immortal.” Sure, he’s been involved in some serious :cuss, but there wasn’t much grand or mythic about him. Mortis gives us Oll, The Emperor’s old pal who blew up the tower of Babel and who was friends with Theseus, who was real apparently. I’m not bothered by perpetual stuff (except for Prytanis, who was insufferable,) but this is a lot. That said, Oll does have a decent arc throughout, and I think it was important to know him better now that this book’s set up what it has for the Siege’s final acts. I’m just mixed on the decisions made. His immortality also undercuts the horror of his situation a bit – honestly Grammaticus probably should have been the POV in these chapters, as he could feasibly be killed (though I suppose being an immortal in the hands of Emperor’s Children is probably the galaxy’s second worst possible fate.)

 

Speaking of horror, the journey of Oll and co. was sick. The introduction, premise, and execution of Paradise are :cussing metal as hell. The Emperor’s Children in general are terrifying in this book; if you were let down by their portrayal in Saturnine, worry not because they are abominations in Mortis. Every legionary is an enormous threat, every description of them is blood curdling, and what they were doing to people in paradise is no better. The scene with the fruit will stick with me for quite a while.

 

 

 

Tetracauron

The books other “protagonist.”

 

Tetracauron is unfortunately just a vehicle to deliver Titan segments. Well written Titan segments, yes. What I would give to go back in time and give French Titandeath. But the man himself is barely a character. There’s no real growth and besides an excellent introductory scene he’s not too interesting either.

 

The titan action, however, delivered in a way I didn’t know I wanted. I’ve always thought they were cool conceptually, but no one really ever delivered on the ritual I like out of Mechanicus-adjacent factions, not even Abnett (though Titanicus is a better book.) But, as mentioned with French’s strengths, the Titan stuff here is exactly what I was looking for. The ritual, the politicking, the complexity of Titan warfare, it’s all spot on.

 

This does take up a substantial portion of the book, and much of it is action scenes. I was never bored with the fightan, despite the admittedly excessive length, as French seems to throw something new into the mix with each chapter. Would I have preferred a Tallarn-style summary of events? Probably, but I’m sure French wasn’t eager to get roasted for that a second time.

 

 

 

Acastia

Acastia is far more interesting than Tetracauron, but again the highlight is the culture she inhabits. I don’t think I’ve seen a whipping boy used in 40k before, but I appreciated the further expansion of Knight Houses French gives despite limited screen time. Not much else to say, as much of her scenes are sharing a battlefield with Tetracauron.

 

(Caradoc is a :cuss.)

 

 

 

Mauer, Sindermann, Keeler, etc.

Come on guys and gals, be fair. The Siege is picking up the threads of the mainline series, and has hardly assassinated them all. If you don’t care about (or actively dislike) Oll, or the Remembrancers, etc. it doesn’t mean it’s not a legitimate through line to be taking. I personally still like them all.

 

Mauer is the newcomer and gets an excellent introduction before meeting up with Sindermann in another effort to spread faith to combat Chaos’ passive influence on the population (a major problem that this book describes in frightening detail.) I like her a lot in her solo chapters and I think its unfortunate she takes a bit of a back seat once the series veterans show up. That said, Andromeda is as fun as ever and Fo gets to be more than a plot device here. I enjoyed these sections but they felt a bit more like connective tissue than most of the book’s plots. I’m certainly hungry for more though.

 

 

 

Shiban Khan

One of two Space Marine POVs, and it’s a broken man limping through the desert. If that doesn’t encapsulate this books tone I don’t know what does.

 

Shiban is, thankfully, alive after his Abnettian cliffhanger in Saturnine and is forced to walk back to the Palace. Along the way he experiences hallucinations of Targutei and Torghun, already a good thing as we never really got to see Shiban reflect hard on their deaths. This segment is one long fever dream until he meets a man and a miraculously surviving baby out in the wreckage surrounding the combat zones.

 

It’s a simple and straightforward plot that works for all its desolation. The theme of despair is on full display here and I love the hopelessness of it all. Shiban finally meeting some fellow Imperials but ultimately choosing to continue on dazed and alone is as tragic as it is climactic.

 

 

 

Katsuhiro

Great stuff, to the point I wish he had more screen time. Katsuhiro is forced to embrace some degree of leadership here instead of being tossed around by fate, and it’s a wonderful scene. Katsuhiro’s segments are the best “ground-level” portions of the book due to how fragile he and his companions are. That and the things he has to fight.

 

The opening with gunships dropping rainbow pain dust on them, while they encounter Noise Marines is the kind of more out-there :cuss I want to be seeing at the Siege. Even so, French manages to make the umpteenth scene with Plague Marines and undead the most memorable out of all of them (including a very atmospheric drive-by for Mortarion.)

 

The Heresy is supposed to be the biggest, worst thing to ever happen to the Imperium, but viewing overmuch through the lenses of gods really makes it feel small. The little people, that one poor conscript down in the trenches, we need those POVs to be reminded of the size of all this. And these segments do it beautifully.

 

 

 

Corswain

Well, we finally know what happened to the Emperor’s flagship.

 

I’m a bit lukewarm on these sections. French didn’t really have the space to give the Dark Angels his usual attention to detail, so it ends up being another somewhat milquetoast view of the legion and its cast.

 

If anything, Corswain pushed the book a bit out of the action sweetspot by being scattered between all the titan combat segments. Seeing Oll and Co. travel through hell, or Katsuhiro cowering in a ditch really broke up those set pieces for the benefit of pacing in a way that Corswain’s fight to the Hollow Mountain doesn’t quite accomplish.

 

They’re pretty good in a vacuum though, and the Hollow Mountain Daemon was quite something.

 

The pros are somewhat undermined by Vassago’s final scene being what I’d call the only instance of poor writing in the book. It reads like a parody of a cliffhanger, so over the top is it.

 

 

 

The Emperor and Horus Interludes

These scenes seemed to be the favourite in The Solar War, and I imagine that will be the case here as well. The Emperor and his wayward son are once again meeting in the realm of metaphor, this time with Emps as a dying man (and, incidentally, a drying man) in the desert while the merciless sun saps his strength. Horus appears as before, spouting the usual accusations. I won’t say its breaking new ground, but the scenes are evocative, especially Malcador’s brief visit.

 

What they do accomplish better than The Solar Wars’ is acting as a parallel to the goings-on across Terra, with Chaos slowly baking itself into the planet’s surface.

 

 

 

Perturabo

Pert gets three, apparently controversial chapters. I of course enjoyed them because I think French is the Perturabo writer (madness, I know.)

 

I think many people misread this scene. It’s not simply distaste with Chaos, its Horus telling Pert in no uncertain terms that he can go :cuss himself.

 

Pert, throughout the Heresy, has had to learn to swallow his pride. Phall was a disaster. Iydris was a disaster. Tallarn was a disaster. He comes out on top of Slaves to Darkness because he’s started to accept his place in the universe, to roll with the punches and make his circumstances his own, instead of raging in futility. He’s stopped blaming others for his misguided expectations and really developed his own kind of agency. This is demonstrated superbly in Saturnine, where he uses his circumstances to give himself a win-win against Fulgrim and Dorn without having to do things in the most masochistic way possible.

 

Now Horus, who had earned Pert’s loyalty with literally one promise, has broken that promise. “Yes Pert, go spend your son’s lives in grinding attrition warfare.” Its regression for Perty, its crap he’s grown beyond. It’s also an obvious demonstration that Horus doesn’t value or respect him any more than Daddy E, or the Fists for that matter.

 

Pert noping out of there shows he’s learned from his mistakes. It’s a dramatic version of “not this :cuss again.”

 

All I can say is: good for him.

 

 

Conclusion

This will not be a book for everyone. It was, however, a book for me.

 

The prose is a joy. The tone is superb. The action is satisfying and damnit, it’s just the kind of book I want to see more of, despite its flaws.

 

This is a solid 8.5 out of 10, as much as it’s a hard To Taste. Some people are going to despise this. I personally liked it better than Solar War.

 

 

 

Current Siege Ranking:

Saturnine > Mortis > The Solar War > Fury of Magnus > Sons of the Selenar > The First Wall > Lost and the Damned

We knew in older books (mostly Mark of Calth) that Jason and the Argonauts were real with Oll Persson. Oll Persson even mused about the sirens he came across with Jason's Argonauts and implied the sirens were warp entities. Edited May 1, 2021 by Just123456

[StrangerOrders]

Good review Roomsky and nothing I can call unfair, just a dramatic difference in preferences.

 

I will say this though, I think I would have violently hated the Armiger less had I not read Conquest first.

 

Because this book does house Vyronii a VIOLENT disservice. Not least because between this, Titandeath and Vengeful Spirit, I am starting to think someone at BL just hates Knights in general.

 

Actually, the specific arc of the Vyronii elements is especially infuriating because Chaos BS is actually specifically something they are supposed to be great at countering...

 

Their moniker is literally 'God-Eaters'!

Edited May 1, 2021 by StrangerOrders

[Roomsky]

Good review Roomsky and nothing I can call unfair, just a dramatic difference in preferences.

 

I will say this though, I think I would have violently hated the Armiger less had I not read Conquest first.

 

Because this book does house Vyronii a VIOLENT disservice. Not least because between this, Titandeath and Vengeful Spirit, I am starting to think someone at BL just hates Knights in general.

 

Actually, the specific arc of the Vyronii elements is especially infuriating because Chaos BS is actually specifically something they are supposed to be great at countering...

 

Their moniker is literally 'God-Eaters'!

 

This is fair, I've yet to read a full Black Book ('s worth of lore.) They hardly came across as anything especially deep nor especially offensive. If anything I liked them because the last time I read about Knights, in Titandeath, I found their every appearance a pointless waste of space (the cruelty on display here was at least a bit engaging.)

 

I've never thought it's quite fair to say "the author should have done this" once you have the power of hindsight, but I wouldn't have minded the better parts of Acastia's portions getting folded into Tetracauron's. (And probably Corswain's getting more closely linked with Perturabo's.) But it is what it is. 

[StrangerOrders]

 

Good review Roomsky and nothing I can call unfair, just a dramatic difference in preferences.

 

I will say this though, I think I would have violently hated the Armiger less had I not read Conquest first.

 

Because this book does house Vyronii a VIOLENT disservice. Not least because between this, Titandeath and Vengeful Spirit, I am starting to think someone at BL just hates Knights in general.

 

Actually, the specific arc of the Vyronii elements is especially infuriating because Chaos BS is actually specifically something they are supposed to be great at countering...

 

Their moniker is literally 'God-Eaters'!

 

This is fair, I've yet to read a full Black Book ('s worth of lore.) They hardly came across as anything especially deep nor especially offensive. If anything I liked them because the last time I read about Knights, in Titandeath, I found their every appearance a pointless waste of space (the cruelty on display here was at least a bit engaging.)

 

I've never thought it's quite fair to say "the author should have done this" once you have the power of hindsight, but I wouldn't have minded the better parts of Acastia's portions getting folded into Tetracauron's. (And probably Corswain's getting more closely linked with Perturabo's.) But it is what it is. 

 

Well, light spoilers for a book which most likely won't read but...

 

Their entire gimmick is that their world is infested with titan-sized serpents that are both sapient and telepathically torment their prey into submission with incredible strength.

 

Hunting them is part of their basic duty. Their entire culture and thrones are literally geared so that the exact circumstances of Mortis should not have been enough to crack any of them.

 

Heck, the entire dynamic with the Solaria does not make a lick of sense either. Specifically the thing that crippled them, almost saw them die by the hands of the Traitors at the onset of the Heresy, was that for all of their respect and nobility. They did not accept Mechanicus-aligned (cough*Solaria*cough) interference in their affairs. Heck during the Crusade the local Mechanicus made a specific effort to starve them of supplies because they refused to become the sort of thralls they are in this book.

 

Their entire character is defined by having suicidally strong wills and giving chaotic-taint the finger. Having their sole entries be a glory hound and a weirdly out of place bigot that seems to have never been in a battle before.

 

They literally took the second worst House possible for this sort of story arc (second to the awesome degree of no-:cusss given by the Orhlacc) and made them into fawning Titan-fodder led by a bizarrrely out of place classist (...from a planet where there was barely a non-Noble population...).

 

It actively angers me.

 

...And now I remember I need to finish up those BB reviews I was doing a while back.

Edited May 1, 2021 by StrangerOrders

[Scribe]

Yet another example of what I would love, filled with what would probably tilt me off the face of the earth.

 

Everything is saying "Don't buy this book." and yet...

[Roomsky]

Yet another example of what I would love, filled with what would probably tilt me off the face of the earth.

 

Everything is saying "Don't buy this book." and yet...

 

I think it would piss you off too much to be worth, honestly.

 

Oll is at the core of the thing and the whole endeavor is clearly setting up whatever twist Abnett's going to pull come book 8. Everything you love about French is here, and there are honestly parts where IMO he's showing the others how its done, but it probably wouldn't justify the spikes in blood pressure.

[Scribe]

 

Yet another example of what I would love, filled with what would probably tilt me off the face of the earth.

 

Everything is saying "Don't buy this book." and yet...

 

I think it would piss you off too much to be worth, honestly.

 

Oll is at the core of the thing and the whole endeavor is clearly setting up whatever twist Abnett's going to pull come book 8. Everything you love about French is here, and there are honestly parts where IMO he's showing the others how its done, but it probably wouldn't justify the spikes in blood pressure.

 

 

Exactly what I'm terrified of, and at this point expecting.

 

I can actually feel pain already building in my chest just reading the bolded part.

[Marshal Loss]

 

 

Yet another example of what I would love, filled with what would probably tilt me off the face of the earth.

 

Everything is saying "Don't buy this book." and yet...

 

I think it would piss you off too much to be worth, honestly.

 

Oll is at the core of the thing and the whole endeavor is clearly setting up whatever twist Abnett's going to pull come book 8. Everything you love about French is here, and there are honestly parts where IMO he's showing the others how its done, but it probably wouldn't justify the spikes in blood pressure.

 

 

Exactly what I'm terrified of, and at this point expecting.

 

I can actually feel pain already building in my chest just reading the bolded part.

 

You and me both. At least we get Wraight and ADB before that comes to pass.

[b1soul]

I would've given Dan the penultimate book rather than the last.

 

Dan's authorial voice is quite different from the rest of the BL stable. This could mean the final book of the HH/SoT reads nothing like what came before if he decided to go for a less conventional wrap-up.