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What would you like to see in the next FAQ ?


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94 replies to this topic

#51
Brofist

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Commands squads are brokenly good in Tactical Strike!

What do you mean by that?

@Hfran That's for sure. It's a great projekt.


If you play vanilla tactical strike, command squads, especially the standard bearer, are one of the best units you can take (for the points). Most non vanilla versions adjust their price accordingly.

Off the top of my head you're basically paying ~35 points for a 2 wound fearless bubble, with 2+ save, and access to decent melee weapons. Hell of a bargain!
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#52
SkimaskMohawk

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I think he might be asking what tactical strike is.
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#53
Gorgoff

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I think he might be asking what tactical strike is.

This. :)
Please explain @brofist
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#54
Mogsam

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I'd like to see Nullificators get access to any dedicated transport. Literally anything. They're not OP, they can't run, so why not give them a proteus at least. Not like you're gonna charge with those toxifarian flamers anyway.

I'd also like to see Master of Signals get 1 blast, not D3.

I'd also like to see the ultramarine special guys lose their initiative axes on Breachers. I don't really get why they have it.
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#55
SkimaskMohawk

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You really think suzerains should lose legatine axes? They're a great melee unit, but after they butcher whatever they charge, they'll be a priority unit to shoot and will get gunned down. Couple that with 200 for 5 and 25 per dude, you get a rather expensive unit that outputs less compared to dawnguard or night raptors.

#56
Mogsam

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They can all have power axes, just not at initiative that auto wound on a 6. Getting absolutely mullered by a pie plate after an assault is a problem for nearly every elite unit, but for 300 points for 10 they get:

 

Initiative AP2 weapons that auto wound on a 6 because reasons.

2 attacks base each

Artificer armour

An invulnerable save

Give a LD buff to units around them

The ability to transport the unit and a character if you choose without coughing up the price or force org space of a spartan 

They can take thunder hammers for some limited dread protection. 

 

They're a no brainer, auto include unit. They're not like the old days with Sekmet broken, but they don't need the initiative bonus. Their only downside is that they don't get melta bombs so they can be tied up with a dread, but they can at least take some protection against that if they're worried. 

 

Compare that the some of the other legions specials. EC have to pay 410 for 10 walking palatine blades in artificer with spears that downgrade to AP3 if they don't charge or win in one turn, Salamanders pay nearly 300 points for 10 Pyroclasts that have 1 attack base and no AP on their combat weapons, but they have to get within a half dozen inches to fire their guns etc. Phalanx Warders have to pay 5 points per model for a power weapon on their 3+ save and come out at 250 for 10 if you wanted to try to make yellow versions. 



#57
SkimaskMohawk

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You picked some units that are known to have costing issues. Emperor's children units in particular are the poster child for overpriced melee compared to other legion units.

The first thing to consider is that legions who have low-synergy rules and/or rites tend to get very strong special units. Word bearers and iron warriors have some crazy units, but very...bland traits. Ultramarines have an alright tactic and some garbage rites so they fit right into the "gets some good special units" zone.

Second, despite having some bonus rules, suzerains aren't exactly topping the special unit discount chart. Things like night raptors and dawnguard are far more overloaded and have way, way better synergy with rites and legion rules and their primarch.

If you take away the legatine axes and give them power axes instead the unit becomes terrible. You compare them to a command squad with axes and combat shields for 5 guys and the command squad is 20 points cheaper with an extra wound and a much better aura. Even compare them to those phalanx warders where you get 15 with axes for the same cost as 10 suzerains; even with legatine axes they take more casualties than they deal against the same point cost of warders.

Suzerains are good, but far away from needing a nerf. There's a lot of other, much stronger legion units that could be toned down first.

Edited by SkimaskMohawk, 27 December 2020 - 01:54 PM.


#58
Mogsam

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I don't disagree there are worse units and things like dawnbreakers are undercosted.

But the question was what would I like to see. Happy to agree to disagree. I think suzerains are one of the units that need a look at.


Edited by Mogsam, 27 December 2020 - 05:01 PM.


#59
SkimaskMohawk

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Well it's a discussion board. The subject is a question, but that doesn't mean the thread is just a chain of statements; be prepared to support your opinion.

And idk man, I just find it weird that a good melee unit that has no synergy in an ok legion is a unit that needs to be looked at, especially in the way you proposed. Like really, we compare them to phalanx warders as you did initially and when you put warders in stone gauntlet they get the same transport options and score as well, edge out the suzerains in damage against t4 and are killed by a str 4 attack 5% of the time compared to the suzerains 4%. They're very similar in terms of how resilient they are to basic attacks and how much damage they can put out. But suzerains need a nerf?

Edited by SkimaskMohawk, 27 December 2020 - 04:25 PM.


#60
Gorgoff

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HEY HEY HEY, let us all take it down a notch.
Nobody touches my Iron Warrior special units. ;)
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#61
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HEY HEY HEY, let us all take it down a notch.
Nobody touches my Iron Warrior special units. ;)


I feel like the strength of their legion units arent quite a secret, though I feel like autocannon and missile havocs are slept on a bit. 5 autocannons reliably one-round av 13 when they can reroll 1s to hit through valens trait or fortifications.

#62
Gorgoff

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HEY HEY HEY, let us all take it down a notch.
Nobody touches my Iron Warrior special units. ;)

I feel like the strength of their legion units arent quite a secret, though I feel like autocannon and missile havocs are slept on a bit. 5 autocannons reliably one-round av 13 when they can reroll 1s to hit through valens trait or fortifications.
Yupp, they're awesome.
And Tyrants got already nerfed so nothing to do here.
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#63
Bung

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HEY HEY HEY, let us all take it down a notch.
Nobody touches my Iron Warrior special units. ;)


They are painted silver for a reason. :P

#64
Gorgoff

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HEY HEY HEY, let us all take it down a notch.
Nobody touches my Iron Warrior special units. ;)

They are painted silver for a reason. :P
I don't get it?
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#65
Bung

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HEY HEY HEY, let us all take it down a notch.
Nobody touches my Iron Warrior special units. msn-wink.gif

They are painted silver for a reason. tongue.png
I don't get it?

 

 

Think about sports. Second place gets the silver medal. And as Iron Warriors have silver armour... whistlingW.gif

 

I dont think, IW special units offend anyone, i think the only complaint i ever heardd was about one of their RoWs. But thats not the worst in my book thaat needs to be fixed.


Edited by Bung, 28 December 2020 - 12:28 PM.

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#66
Brofist

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I think he might be asking what tactical strike is.

This. smile.png
Please explain @brofist


Sorry that one flew over my head smile.png

Book 3 introduced rules for a game mode called 'Tactical Strike' which is, roughly, a mixture of Kill Team and a Necromunda campaign set in 30k. It's really excellent.

To sum it up, you buy models (not units) using the cost of 'additional units'. Things like reaction fire, ammunition, and armor condition are factored in and important. The base rules have a few gaps that different groups have filled in over the years. My own community created Tactical Strike+ (see my sig) which basically combines all of them and makes a few adjustments for balance and the use of mixed (not just marine forces). Regardless of which you play, you should check it out, Tactical Strike is fast, fun, and different from ZM/Cent/Frontline games.
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#67
Stix

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In FAQ I would like to see definitive answer to whether or not army with RoW that says "can not take allies" can  be taken as allied detachment itself.
What I would like to see in errata for IH is:
-make test rules for Immortals official+ change that garbage "can exchange bolter for ccw" to "can exchange bolter for chainaxe for x pts" (or even buy it as extra weapon!). That would give them small CC punch and make them different (more brutal in character) then UM and IF special breachers
-change to Iron Fathers FNP from 6 to 5+ (come on, gorgons and Immortals have it, why not the most bionic guy in the force?) and option to buy Cortex controler
-Some small buff to Gorgons? Maybe 2W and "can be taken as CS with master of the legion? They already have lower then normal Initiative so noone would say they are broken. Depends also what buff Indomitus TDA would get.
 


Edited by Stix, 29 December 2020 - 12:38 AM.

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#68
SkimaskMohawk

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@brofist I gotta ask now, whats a frontline game. Sounds like a style of 30k reecius made up lol.

#69
Gorgoff

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I think he might be asking what tactical strike is.

This. smile.png
Please explain @brofist
Sorry that one flew over my head smile.png

Book 3 introduced rules for a game mode called 'Tactical Strike' which is, roughly, a mixture of Kill Team and a Necromunda campaign set in 30k. It's really excellent.

To sum it up, you buy models (not units) using the cost of 'additional units'. Things like reaction fire, ammunition, and armor condition are factored in and important. The base rules have a few gaps that different groups have filled in over the years. My own community created Tactical Strike+ (see my sig) which basically combines all of them and makes a few adjustments for balance and the use of mixed (not just marine forces). Regardless of which you play, you should check it out, Tactical Strike is fast, fun, and different from ZM/Cent/Frontline games.
I'll have a look.
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#70
Eternal Despair

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@brofist I gotta ask now, whats a frontline game. Sounds like a style of 30k reecius made up lol.

 

It’s just the name a lot of people in the community give bog standard 30k games seeing as we have 3 different styles of 30k gaming now , Zone Mortalis, Centurion mode, and lastly normal age of darkness aka frontline games 


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#71
SkimaskMohawk

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Why not just call it age of darkness games? It's what the rules call it and as you say, everything else has a name already.

#72
Eternal Despair

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In fairness age of darkness refers to the rule set but frontline denotes the format for a lack of a better term. People just like putting things in nice tidy boxes and this is what does it for them *shrugs*. From memory the Eye of Horus guys were the first to use the phrase in that way, and I noticed its mostly used by them and their listeners myself included but hey what ever floats peoples boats.


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#73
Gorgoff

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I call a regular game 'a game'. ;)
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#74
SkimaskMohawk

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In fairness age of darkness refers to the rule set but frontline denotes the format for a lack of a better term. People just like putting things in nice tidy boxes and this is what does it for them *shrugs*. From memory the Eye of Horus guys were the first to use the phrase in that way, and I noticed its mostly used by them and their listeners myself included but hey what ever floats peoples boats.


Well in the rules there's a section called Battles in the Age of Darkness that gives the core missions, deployment, terrain set up, victory conditions, etc...Pretty standard format, with zone mortalis being a different one and centurion being yet another.

#75
Metaliptica

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Thanks for the input. With Covid still around I just managed to finish my letter asking for a new FAQ/Errata for the HH 
In regards to the FAQ/Errata : I asked for
Cementing the playtest rules the released in the previous 02/2019 errata
Having a look at these old units that need a buff or point reduction :
Phoenix terminators, Reavers, Rampagers (and more specifically their cadere weapons), Headhunters, Iron Circle and Templar Bretheren.
Buff Breachers and Sicaran Omega
Considering toning down the Sekhmet and Angel’s Tears squads
A rework of the Spicula so that its firing mechanic doesn’t feel so odd and counterintuitive (instead of playing with blasts markers, just designate a squad and roll to know how many shots were fired for example)
Giving Dawnbreakers and Firewing Enigmatus frag grenades

Finally my biggest request is to have a proper rework of the Dark Angels set of rules. Namely the Legion specific RoW, Scion rules, Lion’s rules and legion specific Wargear.  The legion is a mess right now and I feel is one that needs attention rulewise.

Hopefully FW will do something about these requests if enough people did send a letter asking for updated rules/Fix/FAQ

 


Edited by Metaliptica, 01 January 2021 - 07:13 PM.

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