28 replies to this topic

[ORKILL]

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[Ragnar69]

Why the FAQ on Beastslayer? I don't really see a difference. Must have been some nitpicking WAAC ruleslawyer abuse hidden somewhere

[ORKILL]

Why the FAQ on Beastslayer? I don't really see a difference. Must have been some nitpicking WAAC ruleslawyer abuse hidden somewhere

There always is. LOL

[Rune Priest Jbickb]

Honestly that Lieutenant update is pretty decent, I'm glad they see it that way

[Dark Shepherd]

Thought the one thing we wanted was clarification we only get exploding sixes when THE WHOLE ARMY is in the assault doctrune not one unit subject to a strat

[Squark]

Thought the one thing we wanted was clarification we only get exploding sixes when THE WHOLE ARMY is in the assault doctrune not one unit subject to a strat

Yeah, that one could use clarification. I mean, the RAW is relatively clear (Only the army-wide enables super doctorines), but it's kind of a kick in the teeth to armies with Assault super doctorines not to give them access to a special rule on the two most important turns of the game.

Edited by Squark, 18 December 2020 - 02:31 PM.

[Dark Shepherd]

Thought the one thing we wanted was clarification we only get exploding sixes when THE WHOLE ARMY is in the assault doctrune not one unit subject to a strat

Yeah, that one could use clarification. I mean, the RAW is relatively clear (Only the army-wide enables super doctorines), but it's kind of a kick in the teeth to armies with Assault super doctorines not to give them access to a special rule on the two most important turns of the game.

Oddly, I think the wording for Wulfen special rules make it the clearest, but theres a lot of people (wishfully) arguing otherwise out in the wild

I agree but itd prob jack up the cp cost of strats

[Gherrick]

The Lieutenant unit is more than a bit wonky. So all our named battle leaders are not Lieutenants, but the generic ones are?

[Squark]

The Lieutenant unit is more than a bit wonky. So all our named battle leaders are not Lieutenants, but the generic ones are?

Canis is a company champion, Lukas is a Blood Claw, and Arjac is supposed to be Chapter Champion (although the guy in charge of writing the rules didn't notice that). So none of them (should) fit. Also, the general rule seems to be that named characters aren't included in rules like this (Although the Necron rule for Crypteks explicitly disallows the named crypteks).

[Gherrick]

If Canis and Arjac are * Champions, then they would be elite, not HQ, right? Having the battle leader keyword makes them equivalent to a Lieutenant.

[Bryan Blaire]

What's wonky about the Lieutenant unit? Seems clear to me.

All the characters with the Lieutenant keyword would still be a "Lieutenant" unit from what I can understand of the rules, so you could take them due to the Company Heroes rule from a non-named Lieutenant, but they don't have that rule to trigger if you take them first.

I don't see any named characters with the Battle Leader keyword. Arjac has the Lieutenant keyword, Canis has the Company Champion keyword, Lucas only has the Blood Claws keyword and a Blood Claws Hero aura rule, but isn't a Battle Leader.

[Squark]

If Canis and Arjac are * Champions, then they would be elite, not HQ, right? Having the battle leader keyword makes them equivalent to a Lieutenant.

What position a character has is determined by their keyword, not their battlefield role. Cannis has the company champion keyword (and company champion rules). Arjac has the lieutenant keyword, despite every single bit of fluff ever calling him the Chapter Champion- Including the little blurb right next to his datasheet >.

As for fitting Arjac and another model with the lieutenant keyword into a single slot, I think Bryan Blaire is correct that the RAW permit you to do so. I'm less certain this is RAI, given it breaks with the precedent set by other 9e rules.

[gnalbel]

 

CODEX SUPPLEMENT COMBAT DOCTRINE BONUSES
In each of the Space Marines Codex Supplements, you will find a
detachment ability that confers additional bonuses to units with
the Combat Doctrines ability while a particular doctrine is active
for your army (e.g. Scions of Guilliman in Codex Supplement:
Ultramarines, Savage Fury in Codex Supplement: Space
Wolves etc). Whenever a rule allows a unit to gain the bonus of a
particular doctrine even though it is not active for the rest of your
army (e.g. the Adaptive Strategy Stratagem, page 104), then whilst
that rule applies to that unit, that unit will also gain the benefit
from any such detachment ability.

 

 

*Page 90 – Rare Rules, Always Fight First/Last
Add the following paragraph to the end of this Rare Rules entry:
‘Note that the Counter-offensive Stratagem requires you to select
a unit that is eligible to fight. This means that if a unit is under
the effects of a rule that says that it is not eligible to fight until
after all other eligible units have done so, you will not be able to
select that unit to use the Counter-offensive Stratagem.’

 

[Squark]

Also, a 5-point increase for Eradicators (Probably not enough), Outriders (Fair), and Inceptors (Why?). Curiously Bladeguard got away scot free for now

[Karhedron]

Inceptors (Why?).

Plasmaceptors with a Jump/Bike Captain are seriously good. Possibly the bolter version got caught in the crossfire.

[Dark Shepherd]

Pleasant surprise with that doctrine bonus rule, maybe it was less confusingly worded for other chapters

No points changes for our supplement. Just the 3 for marines?

[Jorin Helm-splitter]

Inceptors (Why?).

Plasmaceptors with a Jump/Bike Captain are seriously good. Possibly the bolter version got caught in the crossfire.

Yeah Plasmaceptors are really good even with the increase they're still the same cost as a unit of hellblasters.

I wish they hadn't split up the arms into separate weapons because I think it made it difficult to adjust the cost of the unit appropriately.I don't think the assault bolter variant should have gone up in points but its alot more complicated to adjust the point total for each arm when most upgrades are in 5 point increments.

[Kallas]

 

Inceptors (Why?).

Plasmaceptors with a Jump/Bike Captain are seriously good. Possibly the bolter version got caught in the crossfire.

 

Yeah, they probably should have tacked that cost increase on to the Plasma Exterminators. +2pts or +3pts to the Plasma Exterminator would see the same effect, but not impact the Assault Bolters. Baffling why they didn't...

[TiguriusX]

You guys haven't seen the plasmaceptor bomb i take it?

White scars and a few others go 5 or 6 plasma Inceptor and don't care if they die overcharging

A nearby Apothecary brings him right back

Sgt gets master crafted damage so they can safe fire when needed and still pound a target

Definitely a top unit and a minor tweak in points is a good idea

[Brainpsyk]

One of the things I would like to see addressed is Lukas + Deed worthy of a Saga.

 

Master of Mischief:  this model cannot be a warlord and cannot have a warlord trait (note: Lukas does not have a WL trait, and never will)

 

Deed Worthy of a Saga (2cp):  Use this Stragem in any phase , when a Space Wolves Character...that does not have a warlord Trait meets the requirement for a Deed.  (Lukas does the Deed and gets an Aura, but not a WL trait)

 

Sagas:  The Deed Worth of a Saga Stragem can be used when a Space Wolves Character model accomplishes one of the Deeds below to gain the associated Saga ability... even if the model in question does not have a Spaces Wolves Warlord Trait.  (Which Lukas doesn't)

 

RAW I think you can use DWoaS to give Lukas an Aura, but RAI you can't. 

[Rune Priest Jbickb]

One of the things I would like to see addressed is Lukas + Deed worthy of a Saga.

Master of Mischief: this model cannot be a warlord and cannot have a warlord trait (note: Lukas does not have a WL trait, and never will)

Deed Worthy of a Saga (2cp): Use this Stragem in any phase , when a Space Wolves Character...that does not have a warlord Trait meets the requirement for a Deed. (Lukas does the Deed and gets an Aura, but not a WL trait)

Sagas: The Deed Worth of a Saga Stragem can be used when a Space Wolves Character model accomplishes one of the Deeds below to gain the associated Saga ability... even if the model in question does not have a Spaces Wolves Warlord Trait. (Which Lukas doesn't)

RAW I think you can use DWoaS to give Lukas an Aura, but RAI you can't.

I question whether that is the intent though. I understand why you interpret the intent that way, but I see it differently. I believe the intent of deed worthy of a saga is a deed so inspiring to fellow troops that they are inspired like they would be if there was a saga already sung about the person. I see no reason Lukas couldn't do that in battle. The reason he doesn't get warlord traits is because he constantly undermines authority and is a bad leader, that doesn't mean his deeds won't inspire for a brief period in battle.

[Bryan Blaire]

I don't think there's any intent to keep Lukas from being the target of that Stratagem at all. Exactly the opposite, the rules very clearly seem to specifically define a path allowing it to happen. Usually you can see intent conflict with the actual writing because the rules don't clearly have a path for general working, something is jumbled or clumsy in the language - this seems straightforward and clear.

It's not just folks that can be warlords that can do things worthy of a saga... Lukas basically has his own saga already - why would he be prevented?

[Brainpsyk]

I agree there's totally a fluff reason, and I realized after re-reading the lieutenants, that they have an aura without a WL trait.  So you're right, totally within the rules.

 

I just find it funny that Lukas can have the "Aura of Majesty" and give a 6" aura of ignoring moral!

[Bryan Blaire]

Maybe his would be better termed the "Aura of 'Hold my beer and watch this, yer gonna want to stick around...'"

[Karack Blackstone]

Lukas.

 

The only Wolf cub with a beer pass.