8 replies to this topic

[L30n1d4s]

The DW Supplement has been out for a bit now, so I thought I'd start a thread where Watch Captains on the forum here can share how they have been using the relics available to the Astartes of the Ordos Xenos.


Here is my thoughts on them so far:


1 - Dominus Aegis -- Pretty amazing for infantry support, especially tough Gravis units that are already T5 and 3W, but also quite good in supporting Dreadnought builds, since they benefit from the 5++ with their "Core" status. In terms of who to put it on, I think the most "economical" choice is to replace a Combat Shield on a Company Champion, who does not lose anything (he is only getting a 5++ natively, so no loss of the 4++ like, say, a Terminator Librarian with Stormshield would lose), is an Elites choice (so keeping all your HQ slots open) and who can buff the units around him in other ways (i.e. re-rolls to charges from a WL Trait, countercharge unit to protect shooty units, etc.)


2 - Artificer Bolt Cache -- For characters, strong on a Biker Captain with Storm Bolter (i.e. you are getting 8 shots with SIA at 24" every turn) or perhaps on a Primaris Techmarine (his Forgebolter puts out 3 x S5 AP-2 Dmg2 shots at BS2+, all of which benefit pretty well from SIA). In terms of Sergeants, I know it has been posted on this forum already, but a Centurion Sergeant with dual Heavy Bolters and a Hurricane Bolter gets a lot of mileage out of SIA, followed closely by Inceptor Sergeants with Assault Bolters and Aggressor Sergeants with Boltstorm Gauntlets.


3 - Spear of the First Vigil -- Obviously, the only option is a Watch Master, but combined with the Imperium's Sword and Paragon of their Chapter WL Traits (using Salamander +2S WL Trait), this gives you a beast in close combat with 6 x S9 AP-3 Dmg3 attacks on the charge.


4 - Banebolts of Eryxia -- So far, the best option I have found for this one is an Eliminator Sergeant -- with this upgrade, the Sergeant is hitting on 2+ with S6 AP-2 Dmg3 attacks (6 to wound still inflicts a MW, since the rest of the Mortis round rules apply). With a little luck, this model can either bring down most of a character's wounds in a single shot or even kill a 3W enemy model (like Gravis armored units) every shooting phase.


5 - Blackweave Shroud plus Adamantine Mantle (using Castellan of the Black Vault WL Trait to get a second Relic) -- Using this on a Biker Captain with Stormshield brings him up to a very durable "anvil" type character, with 6W at Toughness 6, a 2+/4++/5+++, and a 4+++ FNP against MWs.


6 - Beacon Angelis -- So many options here, but my favorite is put this on a Biker Master of Sanctity (Wise Orator WL Trait to chant on 2+s), have him chant the Litany of Hate and Canticle of Hate, turbo-boost him 20" toward the enemy's DZ, then "teleport" over a max Vanguard Veteran squad, Aggressor Squad, or Hammernator squad within 6" of him and more than 9" from the enemy. This can be done turn 1 (so basically, like using a Drop Pod, ignoring the requirement to wait until turn 2) and, with both the Litanies up, that means the teleporting unit has +2" to its charge rolls, re-roll of all to Hits in melee, and +3" to its Pile-in and Consolidation moves... pretty devastating first turn Melee Alpha Strike that often the opponent will not be expecting!


7 - Eye of Abiding -- One of the lesser known Relics, this one I think works best on Slam Captain with either MCed Power Fist (again, using the Castellan of the Black Vault WL Trait) and a Combi-Melta. Since this lets you ignore all negative to Hit, to Wound, and WS/BS modifiers, your Captain can shoot both parts of the combi-Melta at BS2+ then charge and hit a WS2+ with his Dmg3 Power Fist. Even better, on any 6s to Wound (whether with his meltagun or his PF), he ignores all Invul saves as well. While a little niche, this makes him particularly good at engaging all kinds of Aeldari, with their -1 to hit and to wound shenanigans (looking at you, Harlequins), and also quite efficient against things that rely very heavily on their Invuls to survive (again, Harlequins are a big target here, especially given how competitive they are in the current meta).


8 - Vhorkhan-Pattern Auspicator -- Another more niche choice, but potentially more useful than I think it initially appears. With a 6" aura around the bearer giving DW Core +1 to hit for their ranged attacks against "Fly" units, this can be especially effective when dealing with Eldar, Dark Eldar, Harlequins, Tau, Inceptor / Vanguard Veteran heavy Space Marines, Sisters with lots of Seraphim/Zeraphym, etc. Something I quite like about this Relic is that it works every time a unit within 6" makes a ranged attack, meaning that it is not limited to the Shooting Phase. This means that it works on units shooting at enemy arriving from Reserve with Auspex Scan, which is great for putting extra "punch" on those Deep Striking Plasma Inceptors that just landed in the back corner of your deployment zone.


9 - Tome of Ectoclades -- Saving what I think is the best for last, this Relic is so flexible, since it lets you decide mid-battle (i.e. you can activate it in any of your Command Phases) when to use it and also gives you total freedom to decide what enemy data sheet to use it against. Since any DW Core unit within 6" gets full re-rolls to Wound against any units with the selected data sheet, this means you use it to either "nuke" a lynchpin enemy unit (say, a Primarch, big squad heavy hitters, critical buffing character, etc.) or dramatically increase the damage of your army against a whole bunch of units that your make up a large component of the opposing army (i.e. say he has lots of Ork Boyz squads, or multiple Necron Warrior Phalanxes, or a whole bunch of Harlequin Starweavers, or even massed White Scars Assault Intercessors bearing down on you in a "white tide" style tactic), you can make all shooting and close combat attacks dramatically increase their damage output against these key units. One of my favorite "surprise tactics" with this is to combine it with a Pobos Librarian and a 5 Eliminator Combat Squad (from a Phobos Kill Team) that are dropped out of an Impulsor after it moves 14" -- between the 14" move, their 3" disembark, 6" move, and their 36" range, they can effectively target any character within 59", so pretty much anywhere on the board that the Impulsor can get them LOS to. The Phobos Librarian then casts Soul Sight on the Eliminators and uses the Tome of Ectoclades, giving them full re-rolls to Hit (shooting at BS3+, since they are BS2+ normally and have -1 to Hit from moving with Heavy Weapons), to Wound, and ignore cover -- against most T4 / 4++ characters, this gives a better than average chance of surgically (and unexpectedly) removing a lynchpin character from the enemy army and also can have the psychological effect of taking out someone your opponent thought was safe from your snipers.

Edited by L30n1d4s, 23 December 2020 - 01:24 AM.

[Debauchery101]

I have used the mantle, artificial bolts and beacon the most. Since they do well on most characters. The tomb of ectoclades doesn't do it for me. I usually have 2 spec kill teams i use for assassination that doesn't need it when I can manipulate the tactics and doctrines

Codicier Natorians warlord ability has become probably one of my favorite choices. Its similar but negates cover save modifiers...its also not 1 use. Im actually surprised its not an actual psychic ability or limited use.
I dont normally like spending cp on named characters but since he already is a buff character for my play style this is just a nice extra. The Nowhere to hide is also not a bad choice for apothecaries and techmarines

Edited by Debauchery101, 23 December 2020 - 05:59 AM.

[Debauchery101]

I have been wanting to Use the artificer rounds on a centurion now that we can shuttle them inside corvus with the target block on 1st turn. I save my teleportarium for bikers and eradicators

[Mobius0288]

8 - Vhorkhan-Pattern Auspicator -- Another more niche choice, but potentially more useful than I think it initially appears. With a 6" aura around the bearer giving DW Core +1 to hit for their ranged attacks against "Fly" units, this can be especially effective when dealing with Eldar, Dark Eldar, Harlequins, Tau, Inceptor / Vanguard Veteran heavy Space Marines, Sisters with lots of Seraphim/Zeraphym, etc. Something I quite like about this Relic is that it works every time a unit within 6" makes a ranged attack, meaning that it is not limited to the Shooting Phase. This means that it works on units shooting at enemy arriving from Reserve with Auspex Scan, which is great for putting extra "punch" on those Deep Striking Plasma Inceptors that just landed in the back corner of your deployment zone.

 

I think my go to is still beacon angelis as it allows me to be aggressive at the beginning of the game, as well as take a few less points in transports.

 

I have to rethink about the Auspicator. I had originally planned to use that next to a Venator Kill Team (Stalker bolters and Missile Launchers, maybe combat squaded with bikers). The 2nd part of my plan was to use Vigilance Incarnate to flip rerolls depending on what gets in range but Vigilance Incarnate doesn't change the "mission tactic" of a designated unit, it only gives reroll 1's to wound based on the battlefield role. The Venator Kill Team specialism requires the mission tactic to be against fast attack to get the full reroll.

 

So probably what needs to happen is a 2nd patrol detachment will need to be taken with the fast attack mission tactic selected to make this relic shine. For a more positive spin, despite having to spend CP for the extra detachment, this frees up needing to have a warlord trait character nearby.. just a character to carry said relic.

 

 

9 - Tome of Ectoclades -- **EDIT**

I can see this benefiting or being built around either a unit of 10 stalker bolt rifle intercessors or with Indomitor Kill Teams containing Eradicators - both of which would be more than capable of taking a target with a lot of wounds with the right stratagem combo. The intercessors would be more stationary, while the indomitor KT would do best roaming/mid-field.

[Qui-Gon]

 

8 - Vhorkhan-Pattern Auspicator -- Another more niche choice, but potentially more useful than I think it initially appears. With a 6" aura around the bearer giving DW Core +1 to hit for their ranged attacks against "Fly" units, this can be especially effective when dealing with Eldar, Dark Eldar, Harlequins, Tau, Inceptor / Vanguard Veteran heavy Space Marines, Sisters with lots of Seraphim/Zeraphym, etc. Something I quite like about this Relic is that it works every time a unit within 6" makes a ranged attack, meaning that it is not limited to the Shooting Phase. This means that it works on units shooting at enemy arriving from Reserve with Auspex Scan, which is great for putting extra "punch" on those Deep Striking Plasma Inceptors that just landed in the back corner of your deployment zone.

 

I think my go to is still beacon angelis as it allows me to be aggressive at the beginning of the game, as well as take a few less points in transports.

 

I have to rethink about the Auspicator. I had originally planned to use that next to a Venator Kill Team (Stalker bolters and Missile Launchers, maybe combat squaded with bikers). The 2nd part of my plan was to use Vigilance Incarnate to flip rerolls depending on what gets in range but Vigilance Incarnate doesn't change the "mission tactic" of a designated unit, it only gives reroll 1's to wound based on the battlefield role. The Venator Kill Team specialism requires the mission tactic to be against fast attack to get the full reroll.

 

So probably what needs to happen is a 2nd patrol detachment will need to be taken with the fast attack mission tactic selected to make this relic shine. For a more positive spin, despite having to spend CP for the extra detachment, this frees up needing to have a warlord trait character nearby.. just a character to carry said relic.

 

 

9 - Tome of Ectoclades -- **EDIT**

I can see this benefiting or being built around either a unit of 10 stalker bolt rifle intercessors or with Indomitor Kill Teams containing Eradicators - both of which would be more than capable of taking a target with a lot of wounds with the right stratagem combo. The intercessors would be more stationary, while the indomitor KT would do best roaming/mid-field.

 

 

 

What makes you think that taking a second detachment will allow you to have two different battlefield roles selected for the Xenos Hunters Chapter Tactic?

[Mobius0288]

Primarily that the Xenos Hunters Chapter Tactic is a Detachment Ability, according to the Space Marine Codex. Though the issue I'm having is that some folks assume because it says "choose one role," they can only choose one role across your army... which could consist of multiple detachments.

 

It's odd because the only other "choose your own ending" is in the successor chapter trait section: Preferred Enemy. You can of course build two detachments, give them both preferred enemy (with another successor tactic of choice), and the two detachments could have different preferred enemy choices. Similar thinking applied to the Xenos Hunter Chapter Tactic through two detachments.

 

There's no precedent as there's no other codex/supplements currently out with the same...conflict? And for those that like page numbers and quotes:

-Page 93 in C:SM defines detachment abilities (containing Adeptus Astartes units)

-An Adeptus Astartes Detachment gains a Chapter Tactic

-"Xenos Hunters: After both sides have finished deploying their armies, select one Battlefield Role. Until the end of the battle, each time a model with this tactic makes an attack against an enemy unit with that Battlefield Role, re-roll a wound roll of 1."

 

Each detachment that meets the adeptus astartes requirement gains a chapter tactic. Therefore, chapter tactics are a per detachment rule. Deathwatch units are able to select one battlefield role (after deploying both armies), per detachment.

 

Willing to get into this topic as its own thread but don't want to stray too far from original intent about relics.

 

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I would say that the Auspicator would hinge on whether or not a 2nd detachment could be taken with a different battlefield role selected, at least for me. I still find the beacon angelis more valuable and if I'm really not sure what army to expect, I would probably look to Artificier Bolt Cache or a Dominus Aegis next. Or even save the CP tbh, as there are some other strategies and toys to build upon depending on army composition (blackstars, indomitus kill team buffing, Master characters, etc.)

[Debauchery101]

I would disagree about your angle on precedence. Were the only marine faction that plays the way we do, the chapter/mission tactics have traditionally been army wide. You're the first person I've seen bring this up. I need to find my codex and cross with my DW and ill get more on the RAW of things. If it is how you say then it may be similar to the "DEATHWATCH TERMINATOR" crux terminatus description when used with a kill team...most likely not intended but lack of uniformity of updating datasheets and porperly outlining special circumstances to intended implementation could lead to RAW to RAI conflicts

[Debauchery101]

Upon rereading both codex books. I understand where you're coming from and honestly if it was something of a common belief and interpretation I would totally love this. It would hands down allow DW to actually gain something beyond extra HQs or for non marines factions..ability to get a lot more relics and warlord. You could have a lot of reroll all wounds. My judgement on this being like the DWT crux was a huge understatement. This would be a huge boon. I already feel compelled to take tons of hvy bolters and stalkers.

[leth]

With the recent FAQ I am swapping from a dominus aegis jump captain to a domiunus aegis bike captain to go with my chaplain and outriders up the field.

 

I give the chaplain the vox for the extra 3 inches

 

I give the watchmaster the relic spear, he goes with my bladeguard and melee proteus kill team to hold the middle.  Its a solid damage upgrade to have reliable 3 damage as well as makes his shooting significantly more lethal.  

 

I want to work in the tome somewhere however I am already burning a lot of command points on warlord traits and relics as it is(PLEASE NERF THE APOTHECARY GW).

Edited by leth, 06 January 2021 - 04:04 PM.