Deathwing Terminator Priority

[Brother Quinn]

Hello brothers,

 

I made a list of primaris in the army list section and was suggested to swap out BGV for terminators. That lead me to thinking what would be the priority inclusion among the different types we have available to us?

 

For example, if I were to include a terminator chaplain and making a 1k list. What would be the best single squad to include? Would it be knights over command squad or would you pick standard shooty type in that setting? What if in 2k list you wanted them to be mid board presence and wanted 10-15 of them max. Which would you choose and why? I understand it’s probably based on rest of the list but... any advice or suggestions would be helpful. I would think you’d want them for the incredible melee punch but additional shooting seems welcome too. Again, any advice would be great.

 

Thanks

[Brother Ramael]

Well, if I had to say I'd say the knights are good as your second squad, for the fist a basic termie squad with PF/SB plus your choice of heavy weapons will do fine.

Bonus point if the "basic squad" is actually a Command Squad, which for a tiny increase in points lets you put in specialists, doesn't take a Elite slot and more importantly has the Bodyguard rule shielding you characters from enemy fire.

In fact, in 2k points, without going overboard I'd take 1 5 man SB/PF squad and 1 5 man Command Squad.

[Brother Quinn]

Well, if I had to say I'd say the knights are good as your second squad, for the fist a basic termie squad with PF/SB plus your choice of heavy weapons will do fine.

Bonus point if the "basic squad" is actually a Command Squad, which for a tiny increase in points lets you put in specialists, doesn't take a Elite slot and more importantly has the Bodyguard rule shielding you characters from enemy fire.

In fact, in 2k points, without going overboard I'd take 1 5 man SB/PF squad and 1 5 man Command Squad.

 

I'm glad you came here to expand on it!  What would your 5 man command squad consist of?  Thanks!

[Brother Ramael]

 

Well, if I had to say I'd say the knights are good as your second squad, for the fist a basic termie squad with PF/SB plus your choice of heavy weapons will do fine.

Bonus point if the "basic squad" is actually a Command Squad, which for a tiny increase in points lets you put in specialists, doesn't take a Elite slot and more importantly has the Bodyguard rule shielding you characters from enemy fire.

In fact, in 2k points, without going overboard I'd take 1 5 man SB/PF squad and 1 5 man Command Squad.

 

I'm glad you came here to expand on it!  What would your 5 man command squad consist of?  Thanks!

 

Depends on how many points do you want to sink in. I'd go PF/SB, maybe a TH/SS on the sarge and then pick if and which character to add ( they don't cost a slot as part of the command squad).

The Apo is good if you don't have the RW one (he can ress 1 termie each round and heal two more); the Champion is a beatstick, the Ancient has a FNP 5+ aura for DW in 6" ( but then you'd need to keep the termies near).

You could add heavy weapons but consider that usually, since the squad stay with your characters, usually gets in melee quickly.

[FarFromSam]

I love me some LC DW. Throw 20 for 2k

[Berzul]

 

 

Well, if I had to say I'd say the knights are good as your second squad, for the fist a basic termie squad with PF/SB plus your choice of heavy weapons will do fine.

Bonus point if the "basic squad" is actually a Command Squad, which for a tiny increase in points lets you put in specialists, doesn't take a Elite slot and more importantly has the Bodyguard rule shielding you characters from enemy fire.

In fact, in 2k points, without going overboard I'd take 1 5 man SB/PF squad and 1 5 man Command Squad.

 

I'm glad you came here to expand on it!  What would your 5 man command squad consist of?  Thanks!

 

Depends on how many points do you want to sink in. I'd go PF/SB, maybe a TH/SS on the sarge and then pick if and which character to add ( they don't cost a slot as part of the command squad).

The Apo is good if you don't have the RW one (he can ress 1 termie each round and heal two more); the Champion is a beatstick, the Ancient has a FNP 5+ aura for DW in 6" ( but then you'd need to keep the termies near).

You could add heavy weapons but consider that usually, since the squad stay with your characters, usually gets in melee quickly.

 

Just to point one thing out, which has always been discussed and I have found to be true from personal experience: In using the Ancient for the Pennant of Remembrance, unless you plan on playing your terminators very defensively, then you need to consider bringing in a squad of terminators that is at least 7-man strong, but hopefully 8-man or better.

 

The reason for this is as follows:

 

If you play your DW as a defensive squad (perhaps holding an objective), then sure, You can form up a squad of 5 around an Ancient, and they all get the 5+++ save.

If you play your DW as an offensive squad (arriving through deep strike, then going for the charge), then you need the size of the squad so that you can make absolutely sure that there are models forming a human chain or conga line that can actually reach the ancient. Should the ancient fail his own charge, or should you decide to hang him on back while the rest of the DW do the heavy lifting, you will need some guys to line up behind the front line after the charge, to get in range of the 5+++ aura.

Edited December 29, 2020 by Berzul

[bigtrouble]

what about taking the relic that extends the bubble to 9” on the ancient?

[Debauchery101]

L Edited December 29, 2020 by Debauchery101

[Debauchery101]

H Edited December 29, 2020 by Debauchery101

[Berzul]

what about taking the relic that extends the bubble to 9” on the ancient?

Then you cannot take the Pennant of Remembrance. Its one or the other, as the same model cannot have two relics.

[Brother Quinn]

Okay, thanks all. I assumed I’d you wanted a melee beatstick the knights would be the pick. But there’s many variables to consider.

[Berzul]

Well, to be honest, with the right support, then any squad of terminators can do some serious damage. But, overall, the Knights are the best at it.

 

A squad with a Chapter Ancient with the Pennant for a +1 to hit and a 5+ FnP, and an Interrogator Chaplain for the re rolls to hit and +1 to wound, can obliterate whatever you put against them.

[bigtrouble]

 

what about taking the relic that extends the bubble to 9” on the ancient?

Then you cannot take the Pennant of Remembrance. Its one or the other, as the same model cannot have two relics.

 

Oh yes, of course. Duh, don't know what I was thinking.

[Berzul]

 

 

what about taking the relic that extends the bubble to 9” on the ancient?

Then you cannot take the Pennant of Remembrance. Its one or the other, as the same model cannot have two relics.

 

Oh yes, of course. Duh, don't know what I was thinking.

 

But, I DO love the Angels Ambit as a relic. The extra 3" on all aura abilities? Absolutely great.

 

Not for the DW, but I can see the point of this relic. I plan on using one for a Smash Captain with Brilliant Strategist, joined by a lot of bikes. That way he can keep my Black Knights firing with the extra range for longer. Or you could go with Rites of War, and make a 9" bubble of Objective Secured.

[Brother Quinn]

Thanks.  It seems i'm overthinking it and need to bring the unit to fit the enemy.  Since I do have the older dark vengeance terminators, they can be the 5 regular terminators as needed.  For this one box I was able to get at retail price, i'll build them as knights for heavy hitters and for anything more horde/necron warrior needed I think perhaps a mix of assault intercessors and bladeguard will do the trick.

[Berzul]

Personally, I do not like the mixing of units inside the squad. I can see the merit of giving the sergeant a storm shield, but even that I usually don't care much for. I'd rather go full melee or full ranged with my squads.

 

The DV squad is pretty good, actually. I have two of those and they work great. Although, often times, and specially in smaller games, I tend to proxy my squads as just Storm Bolters, and ignore the Assault Cannon. 20 shots on the squad is decent enough, and I usually find the AC to not be entirely worth the cost.

 

If you are bringing heavy weapons on the squad, I'd recommend a cyclone missile launcher over any other option.... Plasma Cannons, now with blast, might be worth it too, but the missiles I think are better.

 

I use the Assault Cannon Terminator often, but for Kill Team! As part of an Elites team? Oh boy! That guy is worth every single point.

Edited December 29, 2020 by Berzul

[Brother Quinn]

Personally, I do not like the mixing of units inside the squad. I can see the merit of giving the sergeant a storm shield, but even that I usually don't care much for. I'd rather go full melee or full ranged with my squads.

 

The DV squad is pretty good, actually. I have two of those and they work great. Although, often times, and specially in smaller games, I tend to proxy my squads as just Storm Bolters, and ignore the Assault Cannon. 20 shots on the squad is decent enough, and I usually find the AC to not be entirely worth the cost.

 

If you are bringing heavy weapons on the squad, I'd recommend a cyclone missile launcher over any other option.... Plasma Cannons, now with blast, might be worth it too, but the missiles I think are better.

 

I use the Assault Cannon Terminator often, but for Kill Team! As part of an Elites team? Oh boy! That guy is worth every single point.

Thanks Berzul.

 

I've been buzzing with ideas now.  I'm stuck between deciding a command squad of 5 TH/SS Terminators to accompany Characters or 5 Knights to accompany them.  I like the extra protection for the characters with the command squads but THs are "worse" than the Maces at base value; however, can easily be corrected with the character auras already around them.

[Berzul]

 

 

Personally, I do not like the mixing of units inside the squad. I can see the merit of giving the sergeant a storm shield, but even that I usually don't care much for. I'd rather go full melee or full ranged with my squads.

 

The DV squad is pretty good, actually. I have two of those and they work great. Although, often times, and specially in smaller games, I tend to proxy my squads as just Storm Bolters, and ignore the Assault Cannon. 20 shots on the squad is decent enough, and I usually find the AC to not be entirely worth the cost.

 

If you are bringing heavy weapons on the squad, I'd recommend a cyclone missile launcher over any other option.... Plasma Cannons, now with blast, might be worth it too, but the missiles I think are better.

 

I use the Assault Cannon Terminator often, but for Kill Team! As part of an Elites team? Oh boy! That guy is worth every single point.

Thanks Berzul.

 

I've been buzzing with ideas now. I'm stuck between deciding a command squad of 5 TH/SS Terminators to accompany Characters or 5 Knights to accompany them. I like the extra protection for the characters with the command squads but THs are "worse" than the Maces at base value; however, can easily be corrected with the character auras already around them.

With the right support, a Command Squad with Hammers and Shields is arguably better than a squad of Knights.

 

A Chaplain can give them re-rolls to hit, and +1 to wound. A Chapter Ancient can give them a +1 to hit to cancel out the -1 from the Hammers, and the Fury of the First stratagem gets you another +1. Now the squad hits on 2+, same as a Knight Squad.

 

Its a costly investment, but can work.

[G8Keeper]

Personally, I do not like the mixing of units inside the squad. I can see the merit of giving the sergeant a storm shield, but even that I usually don't care much for. I'd rather go full melee or full ranged with my squads.

 

The DV squad is pretty good, actually. I have two of those and they work great. Although, often times, and specially in smaller games, I tend to proxy my squads as just Storm Bolters, and ignore the Assault Cannon. 20 shots on the squad is decent enough, and I usually find the AC to not be entirely worth the cost.

 

If you are bringing heavy weapons on the squad, I'd recommend a cyclone missile launcher over any other option.... Plasma Cannons, now with blast, might be worth it too, but the missiles I think are better.

 

I use the Assault Cannon Terminator often, but for Kill Team! As part of an Elites team? Oh boy! That guy is worth every single point.

It is very much personal preference. I plan on a DW army with "normal" squads holding objectives, I'll include 2 TH+SS for tanky goodness, along with a cyclone, sergeant and a normal dude. Somewhat pricey, but I've been struggling to get to 2000pts with a single Vanguard detachment in my list building exploits.

[Berzul]

Yeah. Personal preference goes a long way.

 

I like playing barebones squads. Going for numbers over quality.

Edited January 1, 2021 by Berzul

[Brother Quinn]

I remember trying a mixed squad that was all the rage several editions back. I felt it fell flat and haven’t tried it again.

[Brother Quinn]

If you wanted a 10 man deathwing squad, to combat squad with range and melee, how would you structure it?  I was thinking 10 with 2 cyclones to combat squad as:

 

5 SB/PF with 2 Cyclones

5 with 3 Claws and 2 TH/SS.  Maybe Sergeant with Claws instead of th/ss?

[Berzul]

If you wanted a 10 man deathwing squad, to combat squad with range and melee, how would you structure it?  I was thinking 10 with 2 cyclones to combat squad as:

 

5 SB/PF with 2 Cyclones

5 with 3 Claws and 2 TH/SS.  Maybe Sergeant with Claws instead of th/ss?

That has been for the past editions, the general consensus, on how to do it.

 

Back in 8th it was particularly useful because we had Deathwing Assault, which was also cheaper in CP for a 5 man squad. So, you could, on 1 slot, bring in two teams of terminators. One for melee, one for ranged, with 2 missile launchers in it instead of 1, and fire twice on the turn they arrived via deepstrike.