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Grey Knights 9Ed Brotherhood "Beta" Rules

Grey Knights Chapter homegrown rules WH40K 9th edition Grey Knights Brotherhoods

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#1
Waking Dreamer

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It's done (mostly)! I feel for now, I can dust my hands off when it comes to speculating about the possible future 9Ed GK Codex rules. In completing this individualised benchmark, I feel I can perhaps form a better personal decision whether our eventual GK Codex ends up being: underwhelming / about the right / beyond expectations etc. I plan to also later calibrate these rules with the upcoming DA/DE/DG Supplement/Codexes etc releases – as well as to continual set more appropriate personal expectations for the GK Codex.
 
In making it as “formal” as possible - I was incentivised to deep dive into not just what I think Id like in 9Ed GK Codex rules, but HOW it’s supposed to actually exist in a proper Codex format too (as I’ve endeavoured to make these rules as play-ready as possible)! This mental exercise forced me to quickly realise what are very likely pipe dreams, and the enormous effort required just to make “easy” or “simple” buffs happen. lol
 
A quick contents of these 9Ed “Beta” rules:
• Updated Grey Knights Chapter Tactic
• Updated Smite rules
• Updated Masters of the Warp rules
• Realised Brotherhood sub-faction system
• Integrated new Chapter Command upgrades with Brotherhoods/Stratagems
• Additional standardised SM Stratagems along with GK specific Stratagems.
 
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A breakdown of the Brotherhoods with the abstracted rules to encourage the different GK play styles:
• 1st Brotherhood – Techmarines, vehicle transports and flyers.
• 2nd Brotherhood – Grand Masters, Interceptors, battlefield manoeuvrability.
• 3rd Brotherhood – Librarians, Purifiers and psychic mortal wounds output.
• 4th Brotherhood – BroChamps, getting into combat – and then combat!
• 5th Brotherhood – Apothecaries, Dreadnoughts and Dreadknights.
• 6th Brotherhood – Chaplains, Purgation Squads and infantry shooting.
• 7th Brotherhood – Still to be determined. Rules suggestions similar to the other Brotherhoods format welcomed.
• 8th Brotherhood – Still to be determined. Rules suggestions similar to the other Brotherhoods format welcomed.
 
Chapter Command upgrades are 1CP strats before the battle. They can be used in any Brotherhood detachment, but if it is used in an associated one - they will cost 0CP!


Edited by Waking Dreamer, 10 January 2021 - 06:42 AM.
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#2
Skywrath

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Clearly a lot of work went into this, and if GW gave us this, not only would this be pretty balanced, but INCREDIBLY interesting for any person to play Grey Knights. I went over this briefly, and not in great detail and there are a few points I'd like to point out, in no specific order

 

1. I see what you did with paying 1CP for chapter character upgrades, (and refunding them if they are in a certain brotherhood), but with how CP hungry GK are, barely anyone would take them. Then there is a potential problem with a clarification that there are ways to "abuse" this if you take two detachments from different brotherhoods. I guess in the end you will be shelling out the CP for detachments, but it sorta leans back to my original point, of how we want as much CP as possible. So as much as I love the imagination, it would be much more efficient to make them cost points. Unless your supplement is planning on reducing the strategems cost down as well?

 

2. Perhaps a line could be added regarding psybolt ammunition and tide of convergence? Much to my chargrin, I only found out about that only about a month ago and that is a kind of detail that a new player would miss. 

 

3. Chapter Lord - Fluff wise, doesn't make sense. Perhaps bake this rule into Grand Masters and generic Grand Masters? Not sure about Grand Masters in Nemesis Dreadknights.

 

4. Master of the Forge - Probably better to just rephrase it that is always fires at the top bracket?

 

5. Ethereal Clarity - No real point in taking it, because we have Steady Advance (ignore hit penalties), which is essentially the same thing, as most of our units hit on 3's, and on a unit on 2's that would be wasted. 

 

6. Psychic Pilot - perhaps something interesting could be done there where you could include a Techmarine and a vehicle to be considered one unit?

 

 

Everything else looks pretty good, I have to say.


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#3
Corvus Fortis

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Nice job! I like the idea in general, but here are some thoughts:

 

1) 1st brotherhood may be fun, but there's nothing that buffs the whole vehicle force. The first thought is simply take GMNDK and overbuff it with trait, relic and strat. Can be devastating in smaller games, but def. not the best choice;

2) second brotherhood seems to be a bit underwhelming. Even for 0 points OB is a situational strat. Unique strat is worse Dynamic Insertion, unless you want to bring 4 incinerators into the firing range, and costs more. Deployement tricks are nice, but not really worth it;

3) Protection of the sigilite is a no-brainer. Combine with sanctuary for 3++ paladins. Even if it is 4++ max, it will buff several terminator units. I would nerf it a bit. Otherwise, brotherhood is not that great, but could be taken just for the relic alone;

4) Fourth brotherhood is very meh. +2 to charge sounds good on paper, but it is not the best thing we could take. I was pretty content with how we did play in the end of 8th. We don't really need better charges that much combined with other changes. Relic is Soul Glaive but falchions, which is not very interesting. Strat is very nice, but still not worth taking the brotherhood;

5) Like the first brotherhood, 5th is nice for playing with overbuffed GMNDK,but otherwise - skip;

6) Another no-brainer, but this time the trait. It is just too good. Bring as many SBs as you can and drill anything to death. Use full rerolls to-hit to fish for 6's.

 

I would nerf two overpowered things - trait and relic - and buff other stuff. 


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#4
Gnomeo

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Fantastic job from the sound of it the journey was very insightful.
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#5
Waking Dreamer

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Clearly a lot of work went into this, and if GW gave us this, not only would this be pretty balanced, but INCREDIBLY interesting for any person to play Grey Knights. I went over this briefly, and not in great detail and there are a few points I'd like to point out, in no specific order

 

1. I see what you did with paying 1CP for chapter character upgrades, (and refunding them if they are in a certain brotherhood), but with how CP hungry GK are, barely anyone would take them. Then there is a potential problem with a clarification that there are ways to "abuse" this if you take two detachments from different brotherhoods. I guess in the end you will be shelling out the CP for detachments, but it sorta leans back to my original point, of how we want as much CP as possible. So as much as I love the imagination, it would be much more efficient to make them cost points. Unless your supplement is planning on reducing the strategems cost down as well?

 

2. Perhaps a line could be added regarding psybolt ammunition and tide of convergence? Much to my chargrin, I only found out about that only about a month ago and that is a kind of detail that a new player would miss. 

 

3. Chapter Lord - Fluff wise, doesn't make sense. Perhaps bake this rule into Grand Masters and generic Grand Masters? Not sure about Grand Masters in Nemesis Dreadknights.

 

4. Master of the Forge - Probably better to just rephrase it that is always fires at the top bracket?

 

5. Ethereal Clarity - No real point in taking it, because we have Steady Advance (ignore hit penalties), which is essentially the same thing, as most of our units hit on 3's, and on a unit on 2's that would be wasted. 

 

6. Psychic Pilot - perhaps something interesting could be done there where you could include a Techmarine and a vehicle to be considered one unit?

 

 

Everything else looks pretty good, I have to say.

 

1.  1CP seems the most straight-forward to implement currently. We are also an elite army with our Characters costing a lot more than the other SM characters as is. I'm not sure adding 20-40 extra points on top of our GMs, Librarians, Apothecaries points cost etc. would be anymore enticing, particularly at the Army list-Building stage.

 

2. I'll try. I dont know if there is much room left on the page.

 

3. It's the same bonus that the other Chapter Masters get from the 9Ed SM Codex (for an additional 40 points). With the foreseeable Grand Master limit coming our way - an extra bonus rule that allows a max. re-roll hits to one unit per turn seems useful.

 

4. A land Raider next to a Techmarine continuing to repair it - that will always fire at full BS until you completely destroy it - isn't too strong/over-powered?

 

5. Hmm, I thought it was one of the strongest Strats here. Getting a Strike / Interceptor squad to teleporter within rapid-fire range and have 40 storm bolter shots hitting on 2+. That can be used in any Brotherhood - for 2CP. Align that with Tide of Convergence and Psybolt Ammo: 40 S6 AP-2 2 damage shots hitting on 2+. 

 

6. Maybe. Psychic Pilot can be used in any Brotherhood though, you don't need a Techmarine or have to be committed to the 1st Brotherhood. It could become a complicated / confusing rule for people to use.


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#6
Waking Dreamer

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Nice job! I like the idea in general, but here are some thoughts:

 

1) 1st brotherhood may be fun, but there's nothing that buffs the whole vehicle force. The first thought is simply take GMNDK and overbuff it with trait, relic and strat. Can be devastating in smaller games, but def. not the best choice;

2) second brotherhood seems to be a bit underwhelming. Even for 0 points OB is a situational strat. Unique strat is worse Dynamic Insertion, unless you want to bring 4 incinerators into the firing range, and costs more. Deployement tricks are nice, but not really worth it;

3) Protection of the sigilite is a no-brainer. Combine with sanctuary for 3++ paladins. Even if it is 4++ max, it will buff several terminator units. I would nerf it a bit. Otherwise, brotherhood is not that great, but could be taken just for the relic alone;

4) Fourth brotherhood is very meh. +2 to charge sounds good on paper, but it is not the best thing we could take. I was pretty content with how we did play in the end of 8th. We don't really need better charges that much combined with other changes. Relic is Soul Glaive but falchions, which is not very interesting. Strat is very nice, but still not worth taking the brotherhood;

5) Like the first brotherhood, 5th is nice for playing with overbuffed GMNDK,but otherwise - skip;

6) Another no-brainer, but this time the trait. It is just too good. Bring as many SBs as you can and drill anything to death. Use full rerolls to-hit to fish for 6's.

 

I would nerf two overpowered things - trait and relic - and buff other stuff. 

 

1. Along with a Master of the Forge (free upgrade here), you could buff multiple vehicles. Techmarine buffs 1 vehicle, relic buffs another, WLT buffs another and 1 weapon shoots twice on a vehicle strat affects another. Or like you said super-charge one. But, yeah currently no blanket buff all at once.

 

2. There is also the 12"/30" movement/shunt relic. You could stick that on a GMNDK (or any Character) and constantly move 12". A once per battle 30" shunt past the enemy front lines, and then the Strat to deep strike say a Terminator squad, wholly within 6" of character and 3" away from the enemy. A 3" Charge is a pretty reliable charge for your squad, along with the relic bearer who himself didnt need to stop 9" away from the enemy - and could start off closer due to the 30" shunt instead.

 

3. Hmm, it's that powerful even with max 4++...? Is it that it's too strong for the "meta" or just compared to the other brotherhoods? Would limiting it to models within 6" be better, or just limit it to one selected unit within 6" but allow it to be stacked to 3++...?

 

4. Falchion is the only NFW that didnt have a relic variant - so it was definitely a goal of mine to give it one lol. Still, 10 attacks on the charge for a Paladin Ancient or 11 attacks from a GM its...cool if not really that competitive. For the GK combat charges, sometimes you make 4 out of 5, 9" charges without even taking FttF...sometimes you make only 1 out of 5, 9" charges with FttF and a charge re-roll. Same GK army, same rules. For many GK players who are all about GKs getting into combat - I would never hear the end of it, if I consciously decided not to give them at least one extra tool to get into combat more reliably. For the combat-centric brotherhood it's at least fitting for that chosen playstyle.

 

5. A GMNDK with T7, 13W and can only be wounded on 4+ (from Relic) is...definitely a potential feature of the brotherhood. But its also where the Apothecary (WLT) can heal a flat 3W for infantry per turn, and can revive a model to max wounds for 0CP cost. You can also get a Ven.Dreadnought to 2+/4++/6+++; or a regular Dreadknight to essentially 1+ armour save and BS/WS 2+. Since we will probably be limited to one GM / GMNDK per army, I see this could be the Brotherhood where you can finally buff the DK capabilities - without re-doing it's datasheet or increasing it's points.  

 

6. Yeah, I really like the auto-wound on 6s to hit, with re-roll 1s to wound for shooting within 6" of WL. Also too strong vs. meta army lists? If I were drop part of that WLT which one would make it balanced? Or should I just limit it to a selected unit within 6" of WL? 


Edited by Waking Dreamer, 06 January 2021 - 10:48 PM.

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#7
Brother Tyler

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Admin note - I adjusted the tags to make it clear that these were homegrown rules and that they applied to Grey Knights brotherhoods (as opposed to other Chapters that are similarly organized into brotherhoods, such as the White Scars).
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#8
Corvus Fortis

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1. Along with a Master of the Forge (free upgrade here), you could buff multiple vehicles. Techmarine buffs 1 vehicle, relic buffs another, WLT buffs another and 1 weapon shoots twice on a vehicle strat affects another. Or like you said super-charge one. But, yeah currently no blanket buff all at once.

 

 

Yes, but I was talking about general buffs. Like Valhallan, where every tank can double the wounds for degradation or armageddon with with universal ignore ap -1 for vehicles. Overbuff single vehicles is almost always prefered. Besides, we don't have any super-good weapons, which is worth shooting twice, like Punisher cannon (all comparison to IG are coincidental). I would go for better buff to vehicles, since our vehicles are meh. 

 

2. There is also the 12"/30" movement/shunt relic. You could stick that on a GMNDK (or any Character) and constantly move 12". A once per battle 30" shunt past the enemy front lines, and then the Strat to deep strike say a Terminator squad, wholly within 6" of character and 3" away from the enemy. A 3" Charge is a pretty reliable charge for your squad, along with the relic bearer who himself didnt need to stop 9" away from the enemy - and could start off closer due to the 30" shunt instead.

 

 

 

Ok, didn't notice, that teleport don't restrict charges. Than it becomes too good, imo. Should be either 3 CP/once per battle or 6" away. Maybe, add GoI in the list of abilities, which interact with the strat?

 

3. Hmm, it's that powerful even with max 4++...? Is it that it's too strong for the "meta" or just compared to the other brotherhoods? Would limiting it to models within 6" be better, or just limit it to one selected unit within 6" but allow it to be stacked to 3++...?

 

 

Compared to brotherhoods. In the meta we have way worse things. I will go for the former. Buffs, which affect units, not models, can be annoying some times. Bolstering a unit of paladins up to semi-stormshield would be nice. I would also drop Psychic Enfeeblement to 1 CP, since invulns are rarely the problem for us. We don't have much high AP ranged weapons, so it will matter only in close combat.

 

 

4. Falchion is the only NFW that didnt have a relic variant - so it was definitely a goal of mine to give it one lol. Still, 10 attacks on the charge for a Paladin Ancient or 11 attacks from a GM its...cool if not really that competitive. For the GK combat charges, sometimes you make 4 out of 5, 9" charges without even taking FttF...sometimes you make only 1 out of 5, 9" charges with FttF and a charge re-roll. Same GK army, same rules. For many GK players who are all about GKs getting into combat - I would never hear the end of it, if I consciously decided not to give them at least one extra tool to get into combat more reliably. For the combat-centric brotherhood it's at least fitting for that chosen playstyle.

 

 

 

I see, but I'd personally like to see some more character to the relic, because it steps on Soul Glaves heels a bit too much, imo. What about additional attacks for every successful hit, for example? Or buff the number of attacks depending on number of models in range? For the trait - since you are able to combine it with fttf through hero of the chapter strat (didn't notice this interaction at first) I would still nerf in to +1, since the charges become a bit too reliable, and you can easily win the game the turn you drop. Combined with predestined clash, you can shut down enemy units in the deployment zone. It is powerful, but not really that fun. Again, though, I am not a fan on "drop and charge like a khorne zerker" playstyle, so my opinion can be biased on this.

 

5. A GMNDK with T7, 13W and can only be wounded on 4+ (from Relic) is...definitely a potential feature of the brotherhood. But its also where the Apothecary (WLT) can heal a flat 3W for infantry per turn, and can revive a model to max wounds for 0CP cost. You can also get a Ven.Dreadnought to 2+/4++/6+++; or a regular Dreadknight to essentially 1+ armour save and BS/WS 2+. Since we will probably be limited to one GM / GMNDK per army, I see this could be the Brotherhood where you can finally buff the DK capabilities - without re-doing it's datasheet or increasing it's points.  

 

 

But it is still only single unit, which is still can be brought down by concentrated fire. By the way, weren't GMNDKs about 1st BH, while 5th is about dreadnoughts? And 2 CP for buffing dreadnought still seems a bit too much of an investment to me, even while the buffs are good. Selfless healer is nice, but it is harder to access it, compared to vanilla marines, so it is instantly looks less attractive. 4++ aura still seems more appealing ot me.

 

 

6. Yeah, I really like the auto-wound on 6s to hit, with re-roll 1s to wound for shooting within 6" of WL. Also too strong vs. meta army lists? If I were drop part of that WLT which one would make it balanced? Or should I just limit it to a selected unit within 6" of WL? 

 

 

Against meta it is ok, but too good compared to other brotherhoods. Even if it was a strat, it will completely foreshadow "bring down the beast". I would remove reroll 1's part and make it into a strat, while make a strat into a WT. Otherwise, it is too good. Selecting single unit is a nice fix too. 


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#9
Reskin

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cool thing you did, don't want to take anything away from all the work you've done.

 

But the codex has already been written and printed and handed out to play testers.

 

So the fate of our beloved chapter is now in the hands of... well, without insulting anyone, lets just say its out of our hands and let the dice fall where they may.


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