6 replies to this topic

[techsoldaten]

Having a hard time seeing the point of Vanguard Vets and Bikers on Proteus Kill Teams.

 

Help me understand how they fit into a 9th edition army.

 

The strongest argument I can make for them is combat squads. You'd take 3 Bikers and 2 VVs to have a high mobility T5 unit with Storm Shields that can move through walls.

 

Offensively, they don't get Special Issue Ammunition, but they do get power weapons. So the Biker / VV squad becomes your melee option while the regular Vets with SIA become your ranged option.

 

Aside from that, it's hard to make a case for putting Vets + Bikers + Vanguard Vets in the same unit. Each takes away from the other's strengths.

 

What am I missing?

[Mobius0288]

Your initial analysis is correct so far.

 

Before we took them in proteus kill teams to either combat squad them a specific way, and/or use their built abilities to "fall back and shoot" or "fall back and charge."

 

Currently those are stratagems in the supplement, so for better or worse, less units will be able to take advantage of that tactic and it will cost you a CP.

 

The big reasons to include mixed kill teams (Proteus) are:

-Stratagems for fall back and shoot/charge

-Combat squad for a unique troop choice

-Specialism

-Heavy Thunder Hammer spam with VVs

-Situational movement shenanigans for charging

 

*Blackshield could be viewed the same way as bikers and VVs, but realize there is an intervention stratagem for blackshields in a given unit...hence the importance of getting blackshields added to kill teams via the last FAQ.

 

I personally enjoy having VVs in my larger proteus kill teams because i tend to add in some melee flavor. A Sgt (single power weapon), blackshield (double melee) and VV (double melee or one melee with shield) is plenty attacks to devastate a unit on the charge... plus all the normal close combat attacks from the rest of the unit. As a bonus, the VV can move 12" if I need that extra boost before making a charge.

[Debauchery101]

I include 1or 2 with shield/claw for melta bomb access

[bortbortbort]

Both Bikers and vanvets have a use. Yes they reduce your output if you minmax ONE type of damage (e.g. all plasma). But in my view veterans are costed so high that you HAVE to use them in shooting AND combat to get their money's worth...

And for that the 1cp strats to falls back and shoot/charge are fantastic!

Also to Mobius' point you can string them out and cut an easy 4 inches off a charge (with coherency and the enormous biker base)

Edited by bortbortbort, 13 January 2021 - 08:14 AM.

[Boyadventurer]

Having at least 1 biker and 2 VV in a melee oriented kill team gives you a serious threat range (18" average) your opponent likely wouldn't consider.

The bike moves 14". The two VVs move up 9", they're still 2" away from the back of the bike. The footsloggers move their 6" and the front ones are still within 2" of the back of the VV bases. So everything is still within 2" of 2 models.

Say you get the average 7" charge, the bike moves up to get in contact with the enemy unit, with the rest of the KT in tow. Add your 3" pile in will bring the VVs in contact with the enemy now too. Overall your footsloggers have only gone 16" at this point, but you should be able to get at least most of them to be within 1" of the biker or VVs.  I wouldn't be opposed to even taking 2 bikers just to maximize the footprint of getting the rest of the squad within 1".

[ThePenitentOne]

Don't have access to books ATM, but if memory serves, bikes are normally FA, hence no Obsec.

 

So a proteus with the mandatory 5 vets + 5 bikes combat squaded makes the bikes count as troops, and since the bike squad is homogenous, they can turbo boost, which gives you an obsec unit that can move 20".

 

But like I said, don't have access to books ATM, so can't double check.

[Black_Knight]

Don't have access to books ATM, but if memory serves, bikes are normally FA, hence no Obsec.

 

So a proteus with the mandatory 5 vets + 5 bikes combat squaded makes the bikes count as troops, and since the bike squad is homogenous, they can turbo boost, which gives you an obsec unit that can move 20".

 

But like I said, don't have access to books ATM, so can't double check.

 

You are correct, as long as there are only bikes in the team then they are very fast objective grabbers.