16 replies to this topic

[Ekim_Trub]

I have been trying to get transition my diy chapter, the Sable Hawks, from Firstborn to full Primaris, but I have hit a few stumbling blocks with the lore.

The Sable Hawks specialize in air assault tactics amd almost exclusibely use aircraft/gunships to deploy and support their infantry squads, however I know they cannot do this in the rules, but is this also the case in the lore?? This would seem ridiculous considering the Primarchs were able to use the likes of the Storm Eagle and Thunderhawk. (Same with the Land Raider & Mastodon.)

I also wondered if the mk.X armour is in any way backwards compatible?
For example, I envision my Assault Intercessors utilizing jump pack to deploy and close the distance with the enemy quicker; for the Chapter to still use lightning claws, could they retro fit them to the new armour? Or since Shrike has his own, can they just make new versions? Another combination of old meets new I had pondered was the use of teleport homers in Aggressors to allow them to deploy to the heart of battle, would this be ok?

I also was wondering about the Corvus Blackstar- where did it come from? Where is it made? It is stated as being more advanced tham usual Imperial tech, so is it Cawl tech? Would it be rrasonable to assume other Chapters could have them?

Same goes for the Nephilim Jetfighter used by the Dark Angels and their successors- I saw a claim somewhere that the White Scars have access to the airframe but not the same engine, so could my Chapter do this also? Or is that false information?

Thanks in advance.

[War of the Eagle]

I had a similar problem with Raptors primaris army, but I worked around it with a hefty use of conversions and count as units.

I took some reivers and put jump packs on them and lightning claws for Vangaurd vets. My storm Talons are pretty converted but I painted the cockpits over and just say they are piloted by Primaris. You could even put some terminator arms on aggressors (they fit perfectly)

Sure they dont get the primaris keyword, but they look like primaris, and I lore wise say they are primaris just using first born equipment. Now that first born are 2W there is hardly a diferance.

Edited by War of the Eagle, 15 January 2021 - 11:12 PM.

[BladeOfVengeance]

Instead of a massive quote chain I’ll just use bullet points

• Don’t worry man all Primaris in lore can use any aircraft available to the astartes. Thunderhawks have also now been aloud to take Primaris in game but at the old bulky rule so they count as 2

• Mark X doesn’t seem to be backward compatible in the way the other marks were. but im lore all the new Grav tanks can deploy from orbit coupled with the Primaris being able to use all the aircraft, drop pods and some units having Grav thrusters or jump packs id say you can easily still have an orbital drop/ Air assault force

• on the Corvus black star and Nephillim jet fighters they come from independently found STC’s so are respectively exclusive to the chapters and in the DA case successors who have access to them I wouldn’t imagine the white scars or others have access so as with the Stormwolf and Baal predators

There’s still a vast array of flyers though Thunderhawks Stormeagles (my personal favourite) & Stormravens all serve as a great orbital strike craft capable of carrying Primaris in

Hope this helps

[Osteoclast]

In the lore, there's also the Overlord gunship as a Thunderhawk successor (thought it has yet to make a model appearance). Lorewise, I'd imagine you'd make heavy use of Inceptors.

 

For example, I envision my Assault Intercessors utilizing jump pack to deploy and close the distance with the enemy quicker; for the Chapter to still use lightning claws, could they retro fit them to the new armour?

 

No lore reason that they couldn't and it would be a fun model idea. I've got a pack of axes I plan on putting Assault Intercessors for an Executioners force and simply planning on "counts as Astartes chainsword" for them if I ever end up playing a game.

[Ekim_Trub]

Thanks for the replies.

So, to summarise, from a lore aspect, Ptimaris can use any and all vehicles available to the Adeptus Astartes. The Blackstar & Nephilim are out of reach of my Chapter, and the use of old tech with the new armour is possible with some creative writing.

@Osteoclast: I don't envision them being Inceptor heavy, but instead Intercessor heavy, where they deploy from gunship to 'run & gun'.

[Brother Adelard]

The theory that Repulsors deploy from Orbit has yet to be proven.

They can be deployed from air, but Dark Imperium was silent as to how high they were when they were dropped, or what they were dropped from. It's just as likely the tanks were dropped from a low flying transporter gunship, than from orbit.

Also, I'm unaware of any further reference to Repulsors dropping from the air aside from that one reference in Dark Imperium. Did that bit survive the rewrite?

[BladeOfVengeance]

Maybe you’re right saying at air drop instead of low orbit, although I swear I read it somewhere

I know in the spears of the emperor they drop in from Overlord whilst still airborne

Edited by BladeOfVengeance, 17 January 2021 - 11:33 AM.

[Ekim_Trub]

Yeah, I always understood it as the Repulsor in Dark Imperium was dropped from altitude, not orbit, but I've only read it the once- and as a novel I wasn't overly impressed with, I won't be buying the rewrite to find out.

In Spears Of The Emperor, was it not an Overlord tranporter that air dropped them in? Or am I remembering it wrong?

[Gederas]

The theory that Repulsors deploy from Orbit has yet to be proven.

They can be deployed from air, but Dark Imperium was silent as to how high they were when they were dropped, or what they were dropped from. It's just as likely the tanks were dropped from a low flying transporter gunship, than from orbit.

Also, I'm unaware of any further reference to Repulsors dropping from the air aside from that one reference in Dark Imperium. Did that bit survive the rewrite?

Maybe you’re right saying at air drop instead of low orbit, although I swear I read it somewhere

I know in the spears of the emperor they drop in from Thunderhawks whilst still airborne

"A second Overlord, converted to carry vehicles, roared overhead almost close enough to land. But this one never even slowed down. Two great shadows dropped from its hollow belly, vomiting tracer fire as they fell. The Repulsor tanks slammed against the earth, their ventral anti-grav plates taking the punishment of the thirty-yard plunge with twin sonic booms"
 - Spear of the Emperor

 

I believe there was mention of air-dropping Repulsors in a codex as well.

[Claws and Effect]

Yeah, your Chapter isn't getting their hands on a Corvus Blackstar.

It's an STC that only the Deathwatch has access to, and they guard it's secrets well.

There's also the fact that the Blackstar is typically used for insertion of a small elite force (a single Kill Team), so it's role doesn't really fit a Space Marine Chapter, generally speaking.

[BladeOfVengeance]

The theory that Repulsors deploy from Orbit has yet to be proven.

They can be deployed from air, but Dark Imperium was silent as to how high they were when they were dropped, or what they were dropped from. It's just as likely the tanks were dropped from a low flying transporter gunship, than from orbit.

Also, I'm unaware of any further reference to Repulsors dropping from the air aside from that one reference in Dark Imperium. Did that bit survive the rewrite?

Maybe you’re right saying at air drop instead of low orbit, although I swear I read it somewhere

I know in the spears of the emperor they drop in from Thunderhawks whilst still airborne

"A second Overlord, converted to carry vehicles, roared overhead almost close enough to land. But this one never even slowed down. Two great shadows dropped from its hollow belly, vomiting tracer fire as they fell. The Repulsor tanks slammed against the earth, their ventral anti-grav plates taking the punishment of the thirty-yard plunge with twin sonic booms"
- Spear of the Emperor

I believe there was mention of air-dropping Repulsors in a codex as well.

Thanks @Gederas i knew I’d seen it at some point

[Ekim_Trub]

@Claws and Effect: The Blackstar is effectively a more advanced Stormraven, so it fits my Chapter perfectly. (They use a gunship where others would use a Rhino/Land Raider.)

But, yeah, I get it, the Death Watch have their toys and don't share. 😔

[Doghouse]

There is a Chapter that specialises in use of Thunderhawks called the Hawk Lords so yes you can easily explain away an all Overlords/Thunderhawks Chapter. 

 

The thing to remember is 40k lore is not 100% set in stone and completely inflexible. You could easily explain it away that they use Overlords to drop troops from low/high altitude then use ablative shielded Grav chutes to deploy to the battlefield. 

Hawk Lords use modified jump packs called Hawk Wings for that purpose.

 

In the rules it says Primaris can't use Thunderhawks but there is nothing to say your Chapter couldn't convert the Thunderhawk Transport variant to carry modified troop container.

 

You could say they use modified Hammerfall Bunkers to drop into battle that have their weapons removed in favour of troop transport.

 

You could even create your own dropship as there are plenty of examples of Chapters using specialised gear, vehicles or units that other Chapters do not have access to.

 

You could create a lost Corvus Blackstar variant saying they found a lost STC template and kept it for themselves. Just say they prefer to operate alone distrusting other Imperial forces preferring to strike fast and then fade away after their objective is achieved.

They could easily hide the fact given the state of the Imperium right now and even before it wouldn't be that hard given the gargantuan mess that is the Administratium. It could be centuries before anyone knew what they were up to.

 

Trick is to make it sound plausible, there are tons of undiscovered STC templates and Pre-Heresy tech floating around to accommodate any idea you come up with. If it has no impact on the actual rules or game then you can do what you want as far as the lore goes.

 

I personally would go the simplest route and have them Successors of the Hawk Lords from around the late 25th/26th Founding and that they use the same style of combat using modified jump packs to deploy from Overlords with the original Chapter Master and officers being former Hawk Lords themselves.

[Brother Adelard]

You could say they use modified Hammerfall Bunkers to drop into battle that have their weapons removed in favour of troop transport.

The lore already states that Primaris use drop pods. Rules just haven't caught up yet. Indomitus even references modified drop pods for deploying Outriders.

[Gederas]

You could say they use modified Hammerfall Bunkers to drop into battle that have their weapons removed in favour of troop transport.

The lore already states that Primaris use drop pods. Rules just haven't caught up yet. Indomitus even references modified drop pods for deploying Outriders.

The lore states Primaris can and do use all vehicles Firstborn do, as they're mentioned as using Rhinos and Land Raiders.

 

In the rules it says Primaris can't use Thunderhawks but there is nothing to say your Chapter couldn't convert the Thunderhawk Transport variant to carry modified troop container.

They can in the rules. They count as 2 in a Thunderhawk (like Terminators)


 

Edited by Gederas, 17 January 2021 - 08:00 PM.

[Doghouse]

There you go then, job done.

[Ekim_Trub]

@Doghouse: my Chapter is formed from the remnants of a Raven Guard Legion nomad-predation fleet, so no Hawk Lord/Ultramarines needed. 😉

@Brother Adelard: I have not seen any of the Indomitus lore yet, but those modified dtop pods sound very intriguing.

Edited by Ekim_Trub, 17 January 2021 - 10:01 PM.