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Iron Hands 2500 - Bitter Iron RoW


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#1
RoadRunna

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Hello All

 

Please provide me with your thoughts on the below list as it comes in 12pts under the 2500pt self imposed limit in order to enable me to run the LoW Stormlord running the Bitter Iron RoW to enable the Immortals as troops. 

 

Overall the deployment plan would be to load up the Stormlord with the Gorgons and 2 Immortal Squads and drive it at the enemy.  Orth grants BS5 and tankhunter to all the guns on the Stormlord - useful for dropping both infantry with the main gun and armour with the 4 lascannons.  Predators focus on light armour with the Medusa to mop up...

 

Castremen Orth  

 

5 Gorgon Termies

Grav Gun Cyber Familiar Powerfist (1)  Lighting claw (1)  

 

Immortals (troops)

+5 marines Volikites (12) Meltaguns (3) Sgt has - Art Armour Cyber Familiar Breaching charge Power Fist Melta Bomb  

 

Immortals (troops)

+5 marines Volikites (12) Meltaguns (3) Sgt has - Art Armour Cyber Familiar Breaching charge Power Fist Melta Bomb  

 

Rapier Battery (1)

Quad Launcher Shatter Shell    

 

Legion Tactical Squad

Close combat weapons Sgt has - Power Axe Meltabomb Sgt Artificer Armour Rhino  

 

Legion Tactical Squad

Close combat weapons Sgt has - Power Axe Meltabomb Sgt Artificer Armour Rhino    

 

Predator Tank

Bolter sponsons  

 

Predator Tank

Bolter sponsons  

 

Medusa Battery

 

Stormlord

4 X Lascannon / Bolter sponsons

 



#2
Pearson73

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I've been thinking of something similar, a superheavy assault regiment kind of theme with buckets of Immortals in a Stormlord backed up by artillery. I'm interested to see what feedback you get and how it performs on the table.

#3
Cadmus Tyro

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So, a couple of thoughts,

The list is technically legal but you can’t run a RoW with it as Orth does not have master of the legion.

The main advantage of running CoBi is that you don’t have to take tacticals in your troops slots. Tacticals are reasonable objective holders, I find them most useful in rhinos. But for an additional 35 points per squad you can take veterans, so if you really want to take 10 man marine squads in rhinos and your troops slots are filled with immortals, I’d find the points to upgrade them to vets.

It’s worth looking at your Meduson sergeant load outs. Breaching charges are pretty useless in my experience, there’s a 50% change it will flip back onto your squad vs most opponents, and when you’ve loaded up your sergeant with kit, that’s a lot of wasted points. Perhaps you could argue it’s worthwhile on a “bare bones” sergeant, where the risk of loss is slightly less, but generally I don’t ever find a use for them. Taking power gloves and meltabombs is something to consider, there is some value in taking both, but generally I will take a power axe and a MB or a power glove, personal taste I suppose, but potential for points stripping if needed.

With regard to your Gorgons, lightning claws aren’t a great option as they have base initiative 3. So they will be striking after regular marines regardless, the additional shred rule really doesn’t make up the deficiencies of I3 and AP3. Anti-tank is something that the list lacks, and perhaps more specifically, the ability to take down walkers (ie leviathans). If you take the Gorgons, I would be loading up on chainfists (x4) and a grav gun to go vehicle hunting. With this load out, they will make up for the deficiencies of your immortals (avoid CC with walkers with immortals).

I think a single rapier battery is of arguable value, I would use the points elsewhere. The same could be said about the predators, their removal from the list could make way for some more AT focused units. Or, if you like preds, upgrade them to use lascannon sponsons and squadron them.

Regarding the Medusa battery, I’m not sure how many tanks you were thinking or running? I like Medusa’s, my fear with them these days is their vulnerability to alpha strikes. The more recent inclusions of Terrax drills and boreas missiles on deredeos make me think Medusa’s are more of a liability these days. They have weak side armour, they are squadroned and they are a significant threat, which makes them a prime and potentially easy target. It might be worth considering a pair of Scorpius whirlwinds. The issue with them has always been the efficient use of HS slots, but they have better front and side AV, just something to consider, as their inclusion will depend on how many HS slots you have left.

Reworking your HQ should probably be considered. Autek Morr is worth a look at, he could potentially give two units PE, make his own unit fearless, give you access to castellax in your heavy support and give your units significant durable AP2 close combat support. He’s expensive, but he brings a lot to the table.

Finally, it may be worth getting at least some anti-air cover at 2500, unless your meta doesn’t use flyers all that much.

I like the principle of using a stormlord, just be aware of its vulnerability and the effects it’s destruction will have on the passengers.

Cadmus
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Alpha legion and Iron hands work in progress:

http://www.bolterand...legion-wip-log/


Blackshield/World eaters log:

http://www.bolterand...omega-complete/

#4
RoadRunna

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Thanks Cadmus for your comments

 

HQ - Damn... will drop the Rapier Battery and shrink 1 of the Immortals to 10 man to get enough points for a Herald for the +1ws on the Immortals / Gorgons in Stormlord bubble 

 

In relation to Vets - I note your comments but prefer the extra 2 scoring units for baseline objectives etc when the Immortals are being pushed forward

 

Breaching charges - with the Bitter Iron RoW the army has Hatred allowing for rerolls in first turn of combat so I think the tossed charge (with a re-roll) should be ok and add some drama!

 

Gorgons - 100% agree - will run all with Fists

 

Rapier - dropped for the HQ

 

Preds - I have these models so they stay in the list - upgraded one to Lascannons

 

Medusa - Will drop this in favour of a Mortis dread with twin-linked lascannons to add extra AT and some Anti-air

 

Stormlord - yea but I like the fluffy "land ship" narrative that is in many of the books so am trying to replicate this feel in the list

 

 

UPDATED LISTING

Castremen Orth  

 

Legion Herald Banner of the Aquila Combi-weapon Poweraxe Artificer Armour Refractor Field

 

5 Gorgon Termies

Grav Gun Cyber Familiar T/Hammer (1)  Powerfist (3)  Chainfist (1)  

 

Immortals (troops)

+5 marines Volikites (12) Meltaguns (3) Sgt has - Art Armour Cyber Familiar Breaching charge Power Fist Melta Bomb  

 

Immortals (troops)

Volikites (8) Meltaguns (2) Sgt has - Art Armour Breaching charge Power Fist Melta Bomb  

 

Legion Tactical Squad

Close combat weapons Sgt has - Power Axe Meltabomb Sgt Artificer Armour Rhino  

 

Legion Tactical Squad

Close combat weapons Sgt has - Power Axe Meltabomb Sgt Artificer Armour Rhino    

 

Legion Mortis Dreadnought with Twin Lascannons

 

Predator Tank

Lascannon sponsons  

 

Predator Tank

Bolter sponsons  

 

Stormlord

4 X Lascannon / Bolter sponsons


Edited by RoadRunna, 27 January 2021 - 05:07 AM.

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#5
Cadmus Tyro

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That’s looking better,

With regards to the veterans, yes I agree some mobile backfield scoring is necessary, but my point was more about the relative points efficiency of vets vs tacticals. They can both score objectives, but veterans will have a better chance of moving an opponent off an objective or effectively holding it. For 35 points you get +2 attacks per marine, a veteran skill, access to special weapons, access to cheap squad wide Melta bombs. If you can find the points it may be worth considering.

I like the inclusion of the Herald, +1WS handout and fearless are great and will help those breaching charges bounce the right way. Good point about the hatred rule. I need to build an immortal sergeant for a breaching suicide mission! I know points are tight, but cataphractii, cyber familiar and a chainfist will go a long way on the herald.

As I said before, I like the concept, but there’s a lot of “eggs in one basket” so to speak, the herald whilst a good option is also a risk as he will give your opponent two VP for his death. Couple that with the risk of “price of failure” and the fact that the stormlord is really the only threat in the list and you might struggle. But it sounds fun to play!

Cadmus
  • RoadRunna likes this
Alpha legion and Iron hands work in progress:

http://www.bolterand...legion-wip-log/


Blackshield/World eaters log:

http://www.bolterand...omega-complete/

#6
RoadRunna

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That’s looking better,

With regards to the veterans, yes I agree some mobile backfield scoring is necessary, but my point was more about the relative points efficiency of vets vs tacticals. They can both score objectives, but veterans will have a better chance of moving an opponent off an objective or effectively holding it. For 35 points you get +2 attacks per marine, a veteran skill, access to special weapons, access to cheap squad wide Melta bombs. If you can find the points it may be worth considering.

I like the inclusion of the Herald, +1WS handout and fearless are great and will help those breaching charges bounce the right way. Good point about the hatred rule. I need to build an immortal sergeant for a breaching suicide mission! I know points are tight, but cataphractii, cyber familiar and a chainfist will go a long way on the herald.

As I said before, I like the concept, but there’s a lot of “eggs in one basket” so to speak, the herald whilst a good option is also a risk as he will give your opponent two VP for his death. Couple that with the risk of “price of failure” and the fact that the stormlord is really the only threat in the list and you might struggle. But it sounds fun to play!

Cadmus

 

Thanks for your help with the list... For the same points cost as above I can run the Herald in Cataphractii with P/Axe and Volkite charger but need some more points shaving for the PFist and Familiar or pinch the Familiar from the Immortal Sgt - I'm sure he won't mind

 

Vets are not a scoring unit as they are not Troops... you need to take a RoW to make them scoring and Bitter Iron doesn't do it.

 

Yeah I get the 'eggs in basket' and its also a bountiful basket full of juicy VPs but happy to roll with it for table-top presence - I can always save up some $$ and buy 2 Landraiders and get a WarMonger if I get sick of the StormLord blowing up ;-) .



#7
Cadmus Tyro

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Good move with the herald, could always strip those breaching charges ;)

Veterans have implacable advance, so they score, regardless of their position in you list. As do terminators, seekers and a number of legion specialist units, and incidentally the herald.

Cadmus
  • RoadRunna likes this
Alpha legion and Iron hands work in progress:

http://www.bolterand...legion-wip-log/


Blackshield/World eaters log:

http://www.bolterand...omega-complete/

#8
RoadRunna

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Good move with the herald, could always strip those breaching charges msn-wink.gif

Veterans have implacable advance, so they score, regardless of their position in you list. As do terminators, seekers and a number of legion specialist units, and incidentally the herald.

Cadmus

 

Geezzz never noticed IA on the Vets...



#9
Unknown Legionnaire

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Very nice list with the Herald indeed. I'd ditch his combi gun and find some more points to instead give him a cyber familiar. You might want to protect that little fellow as good as possible.


Smile like Dynat when you're winning !


#10
RoadRunna

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I like the inclusion of the Herald, +1WS handout and fearless are great and will help those breaching charges bounce the right way. Good point about the hatred rule. I need to build an immortal sergeant for a breaching suicide mission! I know points are tight, but cataphractii, cyber familiar and a chainfist will go a long way on the herald.

 

Unless my Book is out of date a Herald can't take Terminator armour



#11
Darkwrath121

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I like the inclusion of the Herald, +1WS handout and fearless are great and will help those breaching charges bounce the right way. Good point about the hatred rule. I need to build an immortal sergeant for a breaching suicide mission! I know points are tight, but cataphractii, cyber familiar and a chainfist will go a long way on the herald.

Unless my Book is out of date a Herald can't take Terminator armour
That restriction was removed in the FAQ.

https://www.warhamme...-v1.1-Final.pdf

Edited by Darkwrath121, 22 February 2021 - 12:51 PM.


#12
RoadRunna

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I like the inclusion of the Herald, +1WS handout and fearless are great and will help those breaching charges bounce the right way. Good point about the hatred rule. I need to build an immortal sergeant for a breaching suicide mission! I know points are tight, but cataphractii, cyber familiar and a chainfist will go a long way on the herald.

Unless my Book is out of date a Herald can't take Terminator armour
That restriction was removed in the FAQ.

https://www.warhamme...-v1.1-Final.pdf

 

 

Thanks for that...  need to get my pen out and fix this verymad.gif






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