How are you finding new DG "on the table"?

[Dracos]

Transhuman is grossly over-rated. I'd take -1W T5 on a 2W model any day of the week in it's place. That's from play not just math. Regardless Tournament scene will provide the data to reveal one way or the other.

Edited February 12, 2021 by Dracos

[Balerion84]

Transhuman is grossly over-rated. I'd take -1W T5 on a 2W model any day of the week in it's place. That's from play not just math. Regardless Tournament scene will provide the data to reveal one way or the other.

How about -1d, 3W, T4, 2+/5++/6+++ and transhuman on top that you can revive? :)

 

-1d on t5 2w and 3+ body on the other hand goes down so easily from my experience...

 

If we were talking about terminators, -1 on 3w T5 2+/4++ body, then maybe.

 

Give my Surgeon the ability the revive models and I'm with you.

[Tokugawa]

 

Transhuman is grossly over-rated. I'd take -1W T5 on a 2W model any day of the week in it's place. That's from play not just math. Regardless Tournament scene will provide the data to reveal one way or the other.

How about -1d, 3W, T4, 2+/5++/6+++ and transhuman on top that you can revive? :)

 

-1d on t5 2w and 3+ body on the other hand goes down so easily from my experience...

 

If we were talking about terminators, -1 on 3w T5 2+/4++ body, then maybe.

 

Give my Surgeon the ability the revive models and I'm with you.

Fact: Terminator with storm shield is "1+" instead of 2+.

[Balerion84]

Yeah, I just ignored storm shields, thought it was a LOT even without them :D

 

It's nuts. Meanwhile, I'm sitting with my -1d feeling like an unwanted stepchild :D

 

For the record, I ordered finally some BL Terminators and more deathshrouds, since PMs were kind of a disappointment so far, so I think the DG termies are good. They are not DA termies good, but they are good.

Just wish PMs were better than they are.

[Tokugawa]

Yeah, I just ignored storm shields, thought it was a LOT even without them :D

 

It's nuts. Meanwhile, I'm sitting with my -1d feeling like an unwanted stepchild :D

 

For the record, I ordered finally some BL Terminators and more deathshrouds, since PMs were kind of a disappointment so far, so I think the DG termies are good. They are not DA termies good, but they are good.

Just wish PMs were better than they are.

Agree. BLords are good. They were just designed as: not good at elite-vs-elite duel. And deathwing are designed for taking the role of "elite of elites".

[McElMcNinja]

I’ve been able to play a few more, this time with PBCs and I have to say they are good. In a game against Necrons (again) I took 2 of them along with Morty in my list. In turn 4 I was finally able to draw out the SK where both could shoot at him. At this point he had one Triarch left with 4 wounds when he did. Between the mortar shots and entropy cannons he was gone.

Another winner was the droning, I was able to make a turn 2 charge with a drone and had used flash outbreak on it and slowed quite a lot of his army.

Morty did live into turn 4, but had killed the Nightbringer, prior to his demise and lost a drone and my LoC during the game. That is as far as units go, I had also lost 2 Deathshroud, 4 Blightlords, and 1 Poxwalker. Final score was 94-53, I took Raise the Banners (15), Despoiled Ground (14), and Thin Their Ranks (10) with 45 on Primary points (& 10 paint points).

Edited February 12, 2021 by McElMcNinja

[Dracos]

 

Transhuman is grossly over-rated. I'd take -1W T5 on a 2W model any day of the week in it's place. That's from play not just math. Regardless Tournament scene will provide the data to reveal one way or the other.

How about -1d, 3W, T4, 2+/5++/6+++ and transhuman on top that you can revive? :)

-1d on t5 2w and 3+ body on the other hand goes down so easily from my experience...

If we were talking about terminators, -1 on 3w T5 2+/4++ body, then maybe.

Give my Surgeon the ability the revive models and I'm with you.

Strangely it wasn’t six months ago the community complaint was how hard regular Intercessors were to take off objectives. I’m not saying DA isn’t going to have its own OP issues ... just very interesting now that every other marine has the same wounds, suddenly -1d on a T5 model isn’t enough?

 

I can tell you from a dozen games against good opponents even at 1CP Ive taken Transhuman out of my stratagem use game plan except for S8 multi-damage weapons. Again DA are their own kind of OP (and somehow I’m sure someone will complain they need more) but between Morty Contagion and the new uselessness of D2 weapons you guys are in a great spot

 

And the tournament scene is going to show it as things open up more and more.

[Azekai]

 

 

Transhuman is grossly over-rated. I'd take -1W T5 on a 2W model any day of the week in it's place. That's from play not just math. Regardless Tournament scene will provide the data to reveal one way or the other.

How about -1d, 3W, T4, 2+/5++/6+++ and transhuman on top that you can revive?

-1d on t5 2w and 3+ body on the other hand goes down so easily from my experience...

If we were talking about terminators, -1 on 3w T5 2+/4++ body, then maybe.

Give my Surgeon the ability the revive models and I'm with you.

Strangely it wasn’t six months ago the community complaint was how hard regular Intercessors were to take off objectives. I’m not saying DA isn’t going to have its own OP issues ... just very interesting now that every other marine has the same wounds, suddenly -1d on a T5 model isn’t enough?

 

I can tell you from a dozen games against good opponents even at 1CP Ive taken Transhuman out of my stratagem use game plan except for S8 multi-damage weapons. Again DA are their own kind of OP (and somehow I’m sure someone will complain they need more) but between Morty Contagion and the new uselessness of D2 weapons you guys are in a great spot

 

And the tournament scene is going to show it as things open up more and more.

 

Codex creep is absolutely a thing, and I don't like it. I think rather than DG getting nerfed like the Iron Hands, I wonder if we will see a trend with new codexes having more access to mortal wounds or damage values of 3+ or higher. That said, T5 is kinda trash. Once upon a time, S3 would only be wounding on 6s; that was great. But now, in 8th and 9th, T5 basically just means bolters hurt you on 5s, heavy bolters on 4s. Whoop de doo.

 

-1 damage is strong but also binary, and the methods taken to overwhelm it don't lend themselves towards surprises. The old 5+++ felt good because you could pull of some crazy feats of endurance with DG.

 

The fact that DA also have access to 5+++ while the best we get is a measly 6+++ feels pretty yucky. Why even sell your soul to the plague god if all you need to be functionally immortal is be a secretive teamkilling lunkhead?

 

 

 

 

Edited February 12, 2021 by Azekai

[Balerion84]

Strangely it wasn’t six months ago the community complaint was how hard regular Intercessors were to take off objectives. I’m not saying DA isn’t going to have its own OP issues ... just very interesting now that every other marine has the same wounds, suddenly -1d on a T5 model isn’t enough?

 

I can tell you from a dozen games against good opponents even at 1CP Ive taken Transhuman out of my stratagem use game plan except for S8 multi-damage weapons. Again DA are their own kind of OP (and somehow I’m sure someone will complain they need more) but between Morty Contagion and the new uselessness of D2 weapons you guys are in a great spot

 

And the tournament scene is going to show it as things open up more and more.

I mean, I can only speak from my own casual experience, and that is, that so far, -1d on T5 Plague Marines didn't make much of a difference, they went down pretty easily. The usual guns aiming at my PMs are boltguns or their equivalents. Plus they are not cheap, so the volume of fire is going to get them either way and against 1d weapons, which go into them mostly, they don't have any DR anyway. Same for 3d+.

 

Vehicles are actually squishier now. I was really surprised how quickly those haulers or a drone went down in my games. For someone who wanted to play daemon engine mechanized dg, that's a real bummer for now.

 

On Terminators, -1d and +1W is nice and those are the units that look really good with it and, very importantly, their superior saves including invul. No complaints there, that's why everyone seems to be going hard on them instead of PMs.

So I'll give you that and agree.

And Poxwalkers. Those buggers really surprised me so far.

 

It's just that for an army, that's supposed to be tough and close range, with the exception of terminators and Morty, I just didn't really feel the "toughness" in my games. But then again, I didn't play with Terminators, only 3 deathshrouds (this edition seems to be all about those termies). I played with PMs and daemon engines. And I got shot off the board by TS and custodes.

[Bulwyf]

It frankly astounds me that Death Guard, the chosen legion of the god of Death and REBIRTH, lost FNP they've always had and cannot bring dead marines back to life.

 

But the Imperium has several FNP armies that can bring dead people back to life. 

[infyrana]

It frankly astounds me that Death Guard, the chosen legion of the god of Death and REBIRTH, lost FNP they've always had and cannot bring dead marines back to life.

 

But the Imperium has several FNP armies that can bring dead people back to life. 

 

Yep, I won't be able to read 40k in the same way, from sacred geneseed and tough to make first borns, now they simply get entire chapter replacements in true-size who've sat around for millenia watching first borns die - but it's all ok, they can raise the dead now and never care for geneseed ever again! /rant off :D

 

Seriously though - how many Blightlords and/or Deathshroud are people finding works with lists without Mortarion ?

[Balerion84]

Seriously though - how many Blightlords and/or Deathshroud are people finding works with lists without Mortarion ?

My bet would be somewhere between 'a lot' and 'all of them'.

 

:D

[Azekai]

It frankly astounds me that Death Guard, the chosen legion of the god of Death and REBIRTH, lost FNP they've always had and cannot bring dead marines back to life.

 

But the Imperium has several FNP armies that can bring dead people back to life. 

At first I was kinda ok with it (not really) but if they removed it as a feature from 40k, I thought it would be fair. But the fact that they took it away from the units that have always had a FnP save and then kept it as a powerful option in 9th for an Imperial army just feels so bad. Like we are an npc faction bad.

 

Seriously though - how many Blightlords and/or Deathshroud are people finding works with lists without Mortarion ?

My bet would be somewhere between 'a lot' and 'all of them'.

 

 

Yeah, because they are the units that can accomplish things, rather than fall over and die.

 

 

[Bulwyf]

 

It frankly astounds me that Death Guard, the chosen legion of the god of Death and REBIRTH, lost FNP they've always had and cannot bring dead marines back to life.

 

But the Imperium has several FNP armies that can bring dead people back to life. 

At first I was kinda ok with it (not really) but if they removed it as a feature from 40k, I thought it would be fair. But the fact that they took it away from the units that have always had a FnP save and then kept it as a powerful option in 9th for an Imperial army just feels so bad. Like we are an npc faction bad.

 

Seriously though - how many Blightlords and/or Deathshroud are people finding works with lists without Mortarion ?

My bet would be somewhere between 'a lot' and 'all of them'.

 

 

Yeah, because they are the units that can accomplish things, rather than fall over and die.

 

 

 

 

 

8th and 9th editions are the first editions that I feel non Imperium armies are basically NPC armies. You exist only to give Imperium armies something to beat up.  Removing FNP from DG still has me salty. We've always had FNP. If DG doesn't have it no one in the entire game should have it. 

[McElMcNinja]

With or without Morty I’m taking at a minimum a unit of 3 Deathshroud and usually a unit of 5 Blightlords w/flail.

 

Without Morty I have run 3x5 Blightlords w/flail, but after seeing what Possessed do for me that hasn’t happened. I don’t mind plopping 5 BLs on an objective and taking pop shots at stuff. When comparing the damage output between the 2, I’m going with Possessed.

 

I also really like the Relic Putrid Preriapt, having that 3rd spell has come in handy. So now I take Miasma, Putrescent Vitality, and Gift of Plagues with my PC. And after I perils (it happens often) I get a chance to heal him, win win for me.

[Marshal Loss]

Removing FNP from DG still has me salty. We've always had FNP. If DG doesn't have it no one in the entire game should have it.

 

We have not always had FNP. Plague Marines only received it in 4th edition, meaning DG didn't have access to it even during the glory days of 3.5. What has always distinguished DG from others is our increased toughness & "true grit", both of which we still possess today.

 

I miss the 5+++ & dislike the preferential treatment loyalists get as much as anybody, but let's not twist the facts or relitigate old discussions.

 

That being said, I will say that the fact that our apothecaries can't resurrect people while the loyalists can is incredibly dumb. Hopefully we can upgrade Plague Surgeons with a stratagem in the upcoming campaign book that lets them do it, but I won't hold my breath.

[Plaguecaster]

Oh yeah I forgot about that book surprised GW hasn't been relasing more info on it, obviously not happening anytime soon otherwise they would of done previews for it instead of Dark Eldar

Can't wait to see how salty I'm gonna get when we have to pay dlc costs to make our DG better as you can bet the majority of the new rules will be ones that should of been in our codex separated out so they can sell another book to us like PA all over again

Edited February 12, 2021 by Plaguecaster

[Azekai]

Oh yeah I forgot about that book surprised GW hasn't been relasing more info on it, obviously not happening anytime soon otherwise they would of done previews for it instead of Dark Eldar

Can't wait to see how salty I'm gonna get when we have to pay dlc costs to make our DG better as you can bet the majority of the new rules will be ones that should of been in our codex separated out so they can sell another book to us like PA all over again

They should have just kept the rules from War of the Spider. My biggest gripe with the 8th ed dex was that there were some idiotic omissions, like lords and possessed lacking FnP. They just copy pasted them and changed some keywords and put zero more thought into it than that. Well, some of that got fixed with War of the Spider, and you could have FnP daemon engines too, which felt awesome. 

 

Then they doubled down on the fail and just yoinked FnP from everything army-wide.

Edited February 12, 2021 by Azekai

[infyrana]

With or without Morty I’m taking at a minimum a unit of 3 Deathshroud and usually a unit of 5 Blightlords w/flail.

 

I picked up two lots of the Tainted Cohort and a Typhus (my proxy 3x Deathshroud and 6 Blightlords), I also picked up a single Blightlord with Flail to add the 7th model (it also came with an axe and combi for me to give one of the tainted cohort models).

 

I guess it wouldn't be a bad shout for now to pick up a single box of Blightlords - any recommendations how to equip the Blightlord boxset and re-equip one set of the Tainted Cohort with the left overs and the spare Axe/Combi I have please?

[Tokugawa]

Launcher, flail, other guys keep the default bolter/axe seems the "standard" build for Blords.

[Marshal Loss]

I'm really liking the Reaper over the Launcher - it's a great looking piece of kit, and the maths is actually somewhat in its favour. With the demise of Arch-Contaminator, it's been doing well for me.

[infyrana]

I'll magnetise the Reaper + BLauncher for sure.  Since the set + tainted cohort doesn't contain enough axes for everyone, is there any reason why I shouldn't include a sword or two in a group of 10?

[McElMcNinja]

I see no big difference between the sword and the axe, but I like to cast Vitality on them. I either have S6/-3AP or S7/-2AP and against most they both wound on 2’s with rerolls. I do think a flail per 5 is a good investment.

 

Shooting wise, it depends on what you want to do with them. I’m not a fan of the Reaper, but it may useful in certain situations. The Spewer is good, but close range shooting can keep you out of charge range. My first choice would be the launcher, if I had the points to spend.

As far as combi-type, I have no preference to those.

[Tokugawa]

(When buff-less)Axe could wound marine on 2+, which is a key feature.

 

Since the Blord kit only contain...3 pieces of axe bit per box, either find the bit elsewhere, or just glue a sword to the lanucher user.

[USNCenturion]

Heh... blords. I like that