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Loadout for Veterans?


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#1
Captain Antargo

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What would be a strong competitive loadout for a Deathwatch Kill Team squad? I'm aiming for this squad to be a close ranged fire support unit whilst also being to be very effective in close combat.

 

Thanks in advance!



#2
Daynga-Zone

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Well, the good news with Deathwatch vets is that you’ve got options and the more points you’re willing to spend on the unit the more it can do, although you run the risk of sinking too much into a unit that gets pulled in different directions.

My default loadout for a cheapish but good all around unit is 2 vets with storm shield and DWBGs, 2 with chainsword and DWBG with a sergeant with power fist and DWBG. If you want to give it more close range volume then combi flamers are a solid deal at 5 points each as well. Without them though the unit clocks in at 118 points with the same (yet more flexible) firepower as bolt rifle intercessors but with much improved melee capability and durability. For one more point you could also drop the PF on the sgt and upgrade him and the two non SS guys to lightning claws.

If you want to add some mobile hard hitting melee to your army you could include 3 veterans on bike, a vanguard vet with a SS and one with a heavy thunder hammer. You then split them off for obsec durable bikes that can go through breachable terrain and pack a solid melee punch.

If you’re wanting a big blob to hold the center I’ve been doing 4 vets with SS/DWBG, black shield with TH/CS, Sgt with LC/DWBG, vanguard vet with LC/SS (for fallback and shoot) and 3 terminators with CSM, SB and chainfist. Unless I see a scary blast unit like plasma inceptors I keep them all together and use a librarian to put fortified with contempt and premorphic resonance on them and beacon them to mid board with biker chaplain who can give them rerolls to hit and shorten their charge. They have yet to lose the mid board.

Edited by Daynga-Zone, 01 February 2021 - 06:06 PM.

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#3
Debauchery101

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4 frag cannons, 3 combi flamer/shield, 1 vanvet w/hvy hammer, 1 sgt w/hvy hammer, 1 black shield with dual claws

You be stupid to charge this. You could teleport in and delete a lot of different targets. Still have a decent amount of durability and hth punch

With support via Apothecary and chaplain makes these guys very ruthless. Even without them your opponent will need to focus a lot of offense to kill them because a near kill won't cut it. They still will pose threat...a chief Apothecary nearby will further force your opponent to avoid or eliminate...because reviving 2 shield vets will suck for them

Edited by Debauchery101, 02 February 2021 - 06:11 AM.

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#4
Captain Antargo

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Quick qestion,Is Kill Team Cassius a good mix or are there better options out there?


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#5
techsoldaten

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There are better options, but it's very efficient for the points.


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#6
Debauchery101

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Quick qestion,Is Kill Team Cassius a good mix or are there better options out there?

its not at all bad, it's not great either. I feel they got tons better than the last time they had rules. If you can find this for sale buy it. The characters Cassius and Natorian are in a lot of lists. Very cheap for their stats. They have fixed warlord traits but 2 good ones...optimized priority and no where to hide. At the very least the box is a good deal at 65bucks for flavorful models
Pros...
Includes Aquila spec
Everything that shoots has SIA
Fairly cheap for what you get

Cons...
No options to change loadout
Terrible combat squad options
No storm shields
Has to be combat squaded to put these guys into transport
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#7
ThePenitentOne

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My thought's on Kill Team Cassius:

 

The box is worth the money because it includes Cassius and Natorian. So the box is basically 3 units. Even if you don't use the Kill Team itself, Cassius and Natorian are good to have.

 

Now on to Kill Teams.

 

From my point of view, you want Proteus Kill Teams to have 5 vets and 5 of something else- Terminators, Vanguard Vets or Bikes. You need 5 and 5 so you can combat squad them; if you do not do this, any termies you include don't get to teleport, any bikes that you bring can't turbo boost and vanguard vets don't get to deep strike or even use their amazing movement stat because they have to maintain coherency with the rest of the squad. This is why I think KT Cassius itself is kinda stupid, even though I'm likely to get the box for the sake of Cassius and Natorian.

 

Now arming the vet part of a Proteus KT depends on whether you're planning to be fighty or shooty. My recommendation is to take 2 Proteus KT's- one with fighty vets and termies and one with shooty vets and vanguard vets. Combat squad both teams; keep the termies in reserve to teleport; Vanguard Vets in reserve may also be valuable, but that's sort of case by case. Note: I choose termies and Vanguard Vets rather than Bikers because the former come 5 to a box; bikes on the other hand, require that you buy 2 boxes to get the 5 you need to combat squad, and then you have the one left over that you can't use.

 

My shooty team is 3 with bolters (because I love special ammunition) and two with frag cannons. On my fighty team, I like a big hammer, two storm shields and normal hammers, and the last two keep their bolters (more SIA); one gets a Power sword and the other a Xenophase Blade. I don't have my dex handy, so I can't double check legal loadout for the Sergeant, but I'm pretty sure you can get that loadout into your fighty squad.

 

Where things get stupid is with Primaris teams. Because a minimum sized Primaris squad is often 3, it feels like KT's of 6 should be able to combat squad to 3/3 or that some KT's of 8 should be able to split 5/3. But of course they can't: 5/5 is the only acceptable Combat Squad arrangement. So all the Primaris units that come 3 to a box have the same problem as the bikes listed above.

 

PS- I used the word stupid in this post a few times. I generally try to keep my tone more positive; I don't mean to offend anyone by calling their favourite load out stupid- it was just shorthand. Probably could have chosen better words... Inefficient maybe.


Edited by ThePenitentOne, 02 February 2021 - 07:20 PM.

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#8
Debauchery101

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[quote name="ThePenitentOne" post="5663072"

Now on to Kill Teams.

Now arming the vet part of a Proteus KT depends on whether you're planning to be fighty or shooty. My recommendation is to take 2 Proteus KT's- one with fighty vets and termies and one with shooty vets and vanguard vets. Combat squad both teams; keep the termies in reserve to teleport; Vanguard Vets in reserve may also be valuable, but that's sort of case by case. Note: I choose termies and Vanguard Vets rather than Bikers because the former come 5 to a box; bikes on the other hand, require that you buy 2 boxes to get the 5 you need to combat squad, and then you have the one left over that you can't use.
[/quote]

I would advise you and anyone thinking about mixed unit KTs that you want to arm and combat squading to consider what specialist buff you want to give them. Shooty vets with punchy vanguards may not want the same targets.

As I've been playing more and more games as well as learning the necrons and deathguard codex. I'm favoring keeping the Vanguard vets stand alone units. I like to add 1 in my Proteus Teams for melta bomb access though.

I think the optimized MSU initial outlook of the game is being altered. We're now seeing more movement debuffs, abilities that take away your charge status and more armies with Fight first options. I've found better results in having 10 van vets start on the table near an Apothecary.

Having obsec is nice but theyre role really is damage. I'm usually able to deep strike in a vet team or 5 terminators to back them up.

Edited by Debauchery101, 03 February 2021 - 04:01 AM.

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#9
InKaras

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Reading some of the replies it would seem that some of you would agree with this:

 

""This is from the 1D4 Chan tactics:

 

"The Old One-Two (Three)
Take a Battalion. Fill your HQs with whatever you like. Your 3 Troops should be 2 Vet Squads, one tooled as an Anvil and one tooled as a Hammer, and a foot-slogging Intercessor Squad. Also take a Corvus and a Redeemer. Combat Squad all three troops choices, put the Anvil in the Redeemer and the Hammer in the Corvus. Deploy the Intercessors in your backfield and have them foot-slog and advance everywhere or camp a home objective. The Corvus should drop its 2 squads near something that needs to die and then all three should spend the rest of the game killing important units. Finally, the Redeemer and its 2 squads should be delivered to 1-2 objectives and refuse to move for the rest of the game if possible."
 
If I am understanding this tactic (which I like)
This is 3 troop choices (10man squads) split into 6 5-man squads and then loading 4 of them into transports and 2 of them just foot slog. 
 
What I don't totally understand is why would you want to split the 10man squads into 5 man squads if they are all going into the same transport?""

April 14th / 2010 A New Kidney for me, yeay!

#10
PhilB

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@InKaras, whilst they’re sharing transports, once disembarked it would seem all four combat squads want to move off in different directions. You don’t have to play them this way of course, but without combat squading, there is option to have this flexibility. If that makes sense.
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#11
techsoldaten

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The problem with having so many choices for Kill Teams is you eventually have to decide.

 

I'm in the early stages of building my DW army. Built KT Cassius and 2 Corvus Blackstars, moving onto Kill Teams.

 

Part of the challenge is I like building lists iteratively, optimizing after every few games based on outcomes. Due to lock downs, this isn't an option. 

 

To compensate, I'm building up from a set of models instead of a final list. Here's what's sitting primed and ready to paint on my table.

 

- 4 Frag Cannon Vets

- 4 Infernus Heavy Bolter Vets

- 4 Heavy Bolter Vets

- 6 SS / DWBG Vets

- 8 Vets - no arms, will decide later

- 3 Heavy Thunderhammer Vanguard Vets

- 5 VG Vets - no arms, will decide later 

- 1 Assault Cannon Terminator

- 5 Terminators - no arms, will decide later

- 2 Bikes with Chainswords

- 4 Bikes - no arms, will decide later

- 10 Intercessors

- 1 Watchmaster

- 2 Intercessor Lieutenants

 

There's at least 3 Proteus Kill Teams and a Fortis Kill Team in that mix. I'm visualizing the Proteus Kill Teams being combat squads optimized around support or objective grabbing.

 

The other part of the challenge how Vets fit in with Indomitor Kill Teams. Heavy Intercessors haven't been released so you can't build those teams yet, we don't know when to expect them. A mix of Heavy Bolt Rifles and Aggressors are more efficient than Heavy Bolters against some targets, so this should influence the composition of Proteus Kill Teams.

 

I like the idea of deploying the Vets in drop pods and coming in on top of objectives, followed by a batch of footslogging heavy infantry as a second wave. This could let me dictate the direction of the battle.

 

How the Vets fit in with other units is the question. I'm really not sure until I start playing games. 



#12
InKaras

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@InKaras, whilst they’re sharing transports, once disembarked it would seem all four combat squads want to move off in different directions. You don’t have to play them this way of course, but without combat squading, there is option to have this flexibility. If that makes sense.

Thanks, it was something I read and so was trying to understand the ins and outs of that strategy. 


April 14th / 2010 A New Kidney for me, yeay!

#13
Debauchery101

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@InKaras, whilst they’re sharing transports, once disembarked it would seem all four combat squads want to move off in different directions. You don’t have to play them this way of course, but without combat squading, there is option to have this flexibility. If that makes sense.

Thanks, it was something I read and so was trying to understand the ins and outs of that strategy.
just gotta remember combat squads rolling together in transports that get popped and explode is double damage potential.
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