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With the impending release of Codex Supplement: Dark Angels, we will be re-organizing our Adeptus Astartes forums/sub-forums in line with our baseline structure (a codex has a forum and all related codex supplements are sub-forums of that forum). This has worked fine for the Black Templars and Ultramarines so it shouldn’t have any significant adverse effects on the other forums.

 

We will also be merging the + INDEX ASTARTES + forum into the main + SPACE MARINES + forum. The former served a purpose when Forge World was supporting diverse Chapters (most presented in the Badab War books), but FW support for those Chapters has died off and the + INDEX ASTARTES + forum is extremely slow. In essence, each Chapter will be covered in the sub-forum named for the First Founding Legion from which the Chapter is descended (the notable exception being the Black Templars who are descended from the Imperial Fists Legion, but are distinct from the Imperial Fists and other Successors of that Legion). Those Chapters whose lineage is unknown (such as the Exorcists and Minotaurs) will be covered in the main + SPACE MARINES + forum.

 

Finally, all of the related army list sub-forums will be consolidated into a single sub-forum for all army lists built using Codex: Space Marines and its related codex supplements. We’ve been tracking activity in all of these forums since September and the average appears to be 25 or fewer active discussions (discussions with a reply in the last two weeks). This means that 99% of the time, any active discussion will be on the front page. The key to making discussions of army lists identifiable by their rules (and intended target audience) will be to incorporate identifiers in the topic title and tags (though the community is maddeningly reluctant to use tags for some odd reason).

 

Seen from the front page (or with just the + ADEPTUS ASTARTES + category showing) and using the standard (Carbon) skin, you’ll see:

 

+ ADEPTUS ASTARTES +

+ SPACE MARINES +

General discussion of Space Marines and Codex: Space Marines

+ BLACK TEMPLARS + + BLOOD ANGELS + + DARK ANGELS + + DEATHWATCH + + IMPERIAL FISTS +

+ IRON HANDS + + RAVEN GUARD + + SALAMANDERS + + SPACE WOLVES + + ULTRAMARINES +

+ WHITE SCARS + + Codex Space Marine Army Lists

 

+ GREY KNIGHTS +

Suffer not the daemon to live

+ Grey Knights Army Lists

Seen from the + SPACE MARINES + forum and using the standard (Carbon) skin, you’ll see:

 

+ SPACE MARINES +

General discussion of Space Marines and Codex: Space Marines

Subforums

+ BLACK TEMPLARS +

Suffer not the Unclean: The Black Templars and their Successors

+ Black Templars Army Lists

 

+ BLOOD ANGELS +

We are the sons of Sanguinius: The Blood Angels and their Successors

+ Blood Angels Army Lists

 

+ DARK ANGELS +

Fortress of the Unforgiven: The Dark Angels and their Successors

+ Dark Angels Army Lists

 

+ DEATHWATCH +

Suffer not the alien to live

+ Deathwatch Army Lists

 

+ IMPERIAL FISTS +

Primarch – Progenitor, to your glory and the glory of Him on Earth: The Imperial Fists and their Successors

+ Imperial Fists Army Lists

 

+ IRON HANDS +

Iron Over Flesh: The Iron Hands and their Successors

+ Iron Hands Army Lists

 

+ RAVEN GUARD +

The War of Shadows: The Raven Guard and their Successors

+ Raven Guard Army Lists

 

+ SALAMANDERS +

Into the Fires of Battle: The Salamanders and their Successors

+ Salamanders Army Lists

 

+ SPACE WOLVES +

For the Wolftime, for Russ!: The Space Wolves and their Successors

+ Space Wolves Army Lists

 

+ ULTRAMARINES +

Courage and Honour: The Ultramarines and their Successors

+ Ultramarines Army Lists

 

+ WHITE SCARS +

The Long Hunt: The White Scars and their Successors

+ White Scars Army Lists

 

Codex Space Marine Army Lists

The one thing we’re still discussing is whether or not to keep the link to the Codex Space Marine Army Lists sub-forum linked in each of the discussion sub-forums. Seen from the + SPACE MARINES + forum view, these links are unnecessary and increase scrolling. Seen from within the sub-forums, however, these links are handy (even though they will all take you to the same place). Note that the link back from the + Codex Space Marine Army Lists + sub-forum will only take you to the + SPACE MARINES + forum, not back to any of its sub-forums.

 

The end result of this change will be streamlining the front page. Members will still have links directly to “their” Chapter’s (sub-)forum from the front page [when using the Carbon skin], and other members will have less scrolling to do if they want to get to forums beneath the + ADEPTUS ASTARTES + category.

 

The only real drawback is that those using the mobile skin will have to drill down once to get to the Blood Angels, Dark Angels, Deathwatch, and Space Wolves (sub-)forums where they previously had front page visibility/linking. This is something that we plan on correcting when we get the new mobile skin (part of the software upgrade/server migration taking place this year).

 

With Codex Supplement: Dark Angels anticipated for this upcoming Saturday, this change will be implemented by some time next Monday. This announcement will be updated to let you know when it has happened (though you’ll no doubt already know it when the site looks funny after it happens).

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Sooo, why not make a Crimson Fists subforum? They have their own distinct rules, and not just "suggested" chapter tactics like Blood Ravens or Minotaurs...

 

Because it's not a significant enough deviation from the parent chapter to justify a whole subforum. Arguably the Minotaurs have more distinct rules than the Crimson Fists on account of having three unique special characters vs just Pedro and half a chapter tactic.

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IIRC Minotaurs only have suggested successor chapter tactics and the FW units, meanwhile the CF have their own unique tactic, relics, stratagems and warlord traits in the codex, not just Pedro.

Also, they were the original space marine chapter in Rogue Trader, it saddens me to see them forgotten like that : (

 

Anyways, if the reason is low expected traffic, maybe there could be pinned threads for the most popular successor chapters inside their parent chapter subforum (for example: Raptors in the Raven Guard).

Edited by lansalt
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There is a balance between compartmentalization (i.e., forums/sub-forums for factions/sub-factions) and consolidation. Chapters like the Crimson Fists, Emperor's Spears, Flesh Tearers, Silver Templars, etc. have rules of their own, but they don't need their own sub-forums because the overall differences don't require them. If we created sub-forums for every Chapter that had rules, we'd have far too many sub-forums and the numbers of sub-forums would grow and shrink over time as GW shifts their attentions around. Each of the sub-forums covers a range of Chapters, from the Space Wolves and Salamanders who each have only a handful of Successors to the Ultramarines who include half of the overall Chapters. That level of compartmentalization isn't necessary when we have elements such as topic titles and tags to narrow discussions down to specific Chapters.

 

The level of distinctiveness that the Black Templars have compared to the Imperial Fists Chapter is far beyond the norm. There's also a legacy aspect to this - the Black Templars had a separate forum here back during the ezBoard days. We could consolidate them into the Imperial Fists sub-forum on the Successor basis, but there's nothing significant gained from that (and there would be considerable bellyaching about it because some people just can't let it go :rolleyes: ). Contrariwise, there is nothing really gained from giving the Crimson Fists (or the Flesh Tearers, or the Raptors, or the Emperor's Spears, etc. ad infinitum) their own sub-forum.

 

... the CF ... were the original space marine chapter in Rogue Trader...

Yes, they've been my most favorite Chapter ever since 1987 and their presence on the cover of the 1st edition rulebook definitely hasn't been forgotten.

 

That doesn't give them sufficient reason to have their own sub-forum, however.

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Personally, I like how it is now, over the proposed change. I'm not denying the possibility it could work out better in the future, but you are making an entire forum category have two subcategories, and then more subcategories for those two subcategories (talk about a tongue-twister).

 

It seems a bit redundant - at least with the older layout, there was a reason why you kept all those factions separate. Technically speaking, the codex hasn't really broken down the walls between all the factions, (as they still have their own distinct flavour), to warrant putting them all together into one category. If I were to get even more pedantic about this (not that I'm making a point out of it), if you are going to put Grey Knights under Agents of the Imperium, (as they are the militant of Ordo Malleus), you'd want to put the Deathwatch there - (as they are the militant of the Ordo Xenos). The Sororitas are already there as militant of Ordo Hereticus, it would make sense for them to all three chambers to be there.

 

That being said, If you really want to make the most out of this change, why not just merge Agents of the Imperium, Space Marines, into an Imperium category like CSM and Xenos? Would seem more efficient as it's all under the Imperium keyword. 

 

Just clarifying, I'm not salty about this, or upset, just it's not a change I think that would accomplish much.

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Re: tags

 

AFAIK you can't use the tag function on the mobile site.

Yes, that's something that should be fixed with the software upgrade happening later this year.

 

 

That being said, If you really want to make the most out of this change, why not just merge Agents of the Imperium, Space Marines, into an Imperium category like CSM and Xenos? Would seem more efficient as it's all under the Imperium keyword.

The existence of forums for each of the Chapters was for a reason. When the site was first created, it was solely for Space Marines. Amicus Aedes was for general Space Marine discussion and there were forums for each of the Chapters that had codex supplements (at the time it was Blood Angels, Dark Angels, and Space Wolves), with a forum for "Codex Astartes" to cover the other Chapters. When Codex: Armageddon was released, we added the Black Templars and Salamanders forums since those two Chapters had fairly expansive rules. We later expanded to include the Chaos Space Marines, then the Adepta Sororitas, then Index Astartes to cover all of the other Chapters that received rules via the 3rd edition Index Astartes series of articles. We've continued to expand over the years, later adding the Inquisition, then Chaos Daemons, then the Adeptus Mechanicus, then the Astra Militarum, then the entire setting, expanding the number of forums as we went and making adjustments as the site grew and the setting changed.

 

A byproduct of an increased number of forums is that you create vertical scrolling requirements. Someone has to be at the bottom, after all. The mitigation for that is to apply information architecture principles where forums are grouped in a logical manner. The software then allows members to apply customization settings, one of the most useful of which is the ability to shrink categories in which they have no interest. So a hobbyist that has no interest whatsoever in any of the Chaos factions can simply click on the toggle at the far right of the category bar (you only see it when you mouseover it) to hide those forums, leaving the category visible in case they ever get the urge to unhide the forums. In this way, they can reduce the amount of vertical scrolling they have to do to get below the categories that aren't of any interest to them.

 

As far as the suggestion to consolidate the Adeptus Astartes and other Imperium factions, that was actually the first iteration of the current structure when we expanded back at the start of 8th edition (and it was my plan). With the number of Adeptus Astartes forums and sub-forums, however, we saw an inefficiency for those that wanted to bypass either the Adeptus Astartes or other Imperium forums. In the end, we felt it was better to separate the forums, even though all of them are technically part of the Imperium.

 

Moving even later, Games Workshop adjusted their meta-faction organization to separate the Adeptus Astartes from the rest of the Imperium forces. While I doubt that they did this because we did it first, the end result was that the B&C and GW both followed the same basic meta-faction organization: Adeptus Astartes, Imperium, Chaos, and Xenos. The benefit now is that it's easy for newcomers to understand our organization since it matches the organization of the official website.

 

To be fair, merging the Adeptus Astartes category with the Imperium category was one of the variations we looked at in planning this change, but we decided to preserve the category separation for now.

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I look at it from a posting stand point rather than what books are structured as

 

Index Astartes have 147,239 replies with 4903 topics.

BA has  187748/7915,

DA 119291/5425,

SW 196488/11109 etc. etc.

 

This is useful as each sub faction are as or more popular than the entire index astartes channel from a posting stand point. Bringing the sub factions into one heading, just because it's how the books line up, make no sense if the purpose is to spur discussion. You want your popular items to be front and center as much as possible. I get that they'll have a link to them under the space marine header but it doesn't tell new people or existing people how popular certain factions are vs. others. So people may not be drawn to them unless they know what they want already.

I just think a social platform should be more about giving easy access to content, not about hiding them. I may be wrong about this but it makes more sense to me to be front page rather than a sub "reddit".

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A byproduct of an increased number of forums is that you create vertical scrolling requirements. Someone has to be at the bottom, after all. The mitigation for that is to apply information architecture principles where forums are grouped in a logical manner. The software then allows members to apply customization settings, one of the most useful of which is the ability to shrink categories in which they have no interest. So a hobbyist that has no interest whatsoever in any of the Chaos factions can simply click on the toggle at the far right of the category bar (you only see it when you mouseover it) to hide those forums, leaving the category visible in case they ever get the urge to unhide the forums. In this way, they can reduce the amount of vertical scrolling they have to do to get below the categories that aren't of any interest to them.

 

 

This is a thing? Interesting. Guess I should go hide a couple of things, then--I keep clicking into GSC by accident whenever I mean to go to the Tombs.

 

Does this setting also apply on the mobile skin?

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I just think a social platform should be more about giving easy access to content, not about hiding them. I may be wrong about this but it makes more sense to me to be front page rather than a sub "reddit".

Popularity is just one of several factors that we consider when structuring the site, and it's part of the reason for why the top three categories are the ones they are. Other factors that are eminently more important relate to information architecture and findability. If popularity were the primary/only metric, the arrangement of the forums would shift with the winds of popularity and it might not even make sense, making visiting the site an adventure. Having a structure to how things are arranged makes it much easier to find things, both for those that have been here for a while and for those that are completely new to the site.

 

 

Does this setting also apply on the mobile skin?

No, it doesn't work on the mobile skin. That's another one of the things we'd like built into the new mobile skin.
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Will the army list title be changed to just 'Space Marines' army list? None of the other entries are prefaced by 'Codex: ' and there now is no exclusion of DA, BA, etc. Edited by WrathOfTheLion
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It will remain "Codex Space Marines Army Lists" because all of the Chapters (aside from Grey Knights) are built upon Codex: Space Marines using some codex supplement.

 

Note that the major muscle movements of the change have taken place. There is still some minor cleanup taking place, especially with regard to the merger of the Adeptus Astartes Resources and Index Astartes Resources topics.

 

With regard to the Blood Angels, Dark Angels, Deathwatch, and Space Wolves army list discussions, I moved all of those that were readily identifiable as 9th edition. I'm sure that there were some older ones created after 9th edition came out but before the respective codex supplements, or potentially some 8th edition discussions that may have been updated to 9th edition in the course of the discussion. If you don't see your army list discussion and you'd like to continue discussing it, please send me a PM.

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