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Index Astartes - The Argent Praetorians (LASC2021)


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#1
Halandaar

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INDEX ASTARTES

THE ARGENT PRAETORIANS

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Chapter Badge of the Argent Praetorians

Founding - 24th (M.39)

Gene-Seed Lineage - Roboute Guilliman
Parent Chapter - Howling Griffons
 
Fortress Monastery - The Bastion
Chapter Homeworld - Elium, 2nd moon of Valas
Location - Ambiramus system, Nidus Cluster, Segmentum Ultima
 
Colours  - Polished Silver, Black Shoulders
Heraldry  - White gladius with lightning bolts on a field of black
Identifiers - Company colours displayed on left kneepad, Squad Numbers on the right
 
Battlecry - “In nomine eius!”
 
ORIGINS
 
The Argent Praetorians were created in the 24th founding of M39 to fulfill a need to protect an undermanned region of Imperial space in the Segmentum Ultima; the Nidus Cluster, a group of seven relatively close stars in the space to the galactic west of the Realm of Ultramar. Several of the systems within the Nidus cluster contain Imperial-colonised worlds of varying strategic value, which had been subject to a number of xenos incursions and local insurrections during the period known as The Waning, with local Militarum and Imperial Navy forces struggling to cope with the constant arrival of disparate threats.
 
Created from the genestock of Roboute Guilliman, the chapter established it's Fortress-Monastery the Bastion on Elium, a moon of Valas in the Ambiramus system. Valas was a Feudal World of warring clans, and provided an ample supply of viable aspirants for recruitment into the Chapter. Other than recruitment rituals, the Praetorians maintain a hands-off approach to the world and it’s politics. Over the millennia since their arrival in the system, Valas has become a civilised world of feuding noble houses who continue to provide the chapter’s recruits, although hardened via honour duels and gladiatorial combat, rather than the outright internecine war of prior ages.
 
ORGANISATION
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Brother Servius, Bladeguard Veteran (1)
 
Rather than the Codex-prescribed chapter composition, the Argent Praetorians maintain 10 fully independent Battle Companies, each with it's own preferred tactics and traditions. As such there are no reserve companies, no scout company, and no formal Veteran company. Each Company (internally referred to as "Centuria") is led by a Captain ("Centurion") and a Tesserarius - a non-Codex additional rank who acts as his second as well as the leader of each company's Veteran ("Triarii") squad, supported by two Lieutenants ("Optio"), Company Champion ("Laticlavius") and a Company Ancient ("Signifer"). 
 
Noting that in Codex-Adherent chapters first company Veteran and reserve company squads are often seconded to other forces anyway, the founding officers of the Praetorians opted instead to embed Veteran units directly within each company's structure, offering a dedicated group of experienced fighters and mentors to each Company, alongside a visible progression path for aspiring Marines.
 
As such, each Company's first squad is composed entirely of Veteran Marines, each with access to it’s own pool of wargear including suits of Terminator armour, bikes and jump packs. The veterans might take the field in two smaller squads with differing roles, or as a single larger formation.
 
With no formal Scout company, units of Neophytes ("Hestati") are assigned directly to a company upon creation, to train and battle alongside fully-fledged Astartes.
 
Each Marine's company affiliation is denoted by the left kneepad of his armour, bearing the Company's heraldic colour, while his squad number is shown on the right kneepad. 
 
Ranks are visually indicated by headgear, as follows;
  • Squad Sergeant - Bronze helmet with lateral crest
  • Veteran Brother - Gold Helmet
  • Veteran Sergeant - Gold Helmet with lateral crest
  • Lieutenant - Bronze Helmet with white stripe & transverse crest
  • Captain - Gold Helmet with transverse crest
 
COMBAT DOCTRINES
 
Each of the ten Centuria is capable of operating as an independent army, with it's own allocation of wargear, support staff and vehicles, and while they are obviously extremely flexible in the way that only the elite warriors of the Imperium can be, each has it's own preferred tactics and methods of warfare. The 6th has a preference for mechanised warfare, making extensive use of bikes, armoured transports and land speeders, while the 8th place an emphasis on devastating long-range firepower.
 
##Requesting Updated Files. Additional data to Follow##
 
CULTURE
 
Upon their adoption of Valas as their recruiting grounds, the culture of that world and it's many warring clans gradually seeped in to the chapter. The ten companies of the Praetorians each took their name and iconography from one of the great clans of old Valas who first gave their sons to the chapter. Although in the ages since those clans variously fell, rose, merged, transformed or vanished, the Bear, Boar, Bull, Crow, Eagle, Fox, Hawk, Serpent, Spider and Stag clans are represented in perpetuity in the halls of the Bastion. 
 
Some companies give more prominence to these Clan origins than others. For example, the Centuria Quintus Frateris Vulpis (5th Company - Brotherhood of the Fox) often wear animal furs, skulls and other trophies to demonstrate their affiliation, while these sort of affectations are more unusual among the 8th Frateris Ursis
 
While the recruits of ages past were drawn from the clans of old Valas and the companies bore the names of those clans, it was not the case that the aspirants from the clans themselves always became part of the corresponding Centuria. As the result of psycho-indoctrination processes, an aspirant’s old ties are replaced with loyalty to the Chapter, Imperium and Emperor above all, eliminating any remaining sense of rivalry between aspirants from opposing clans. In any case, none of the ten original clans still exists on modern Valas for this to present an issue among new recruits.
 
 
 
WARDENS OF THE NIDUS CLUSTER
 
Located in the galactic east of the Segmentum Ultima, the Nidus cluster exists in the space between Charadon and the Realm of Ultramar. It consists of seven star systems, several of which include inhabited Imperial worlds or strategic assets. Summarised system listing below including notable planets or satellites.
 
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Starmap indicating the location of the Nidus Cluster within Segmentum Ultima
  • Ambiramus System - 6 planets
    • Atamacos - Mining World
    • Valas - Civilised World, Astartes Recruiting World
      • Aaros - Moon of Valas, Industrial World
      • Elium - Moon of Valas, Astartes Fortress World 
    • Ategnatos - 
  • Belena System - 9 Planets
    • Silverglow - Garden World
    • Somberlay - Gas Giant
      • Siania - Moon of Somberlay, Agri-World
    • Blackwater - Hive World
  • Helvetios System - 16 Planets
    • Helvetios II - Dead World
      • Helvetios II-Gamma - Moon of Helvetios II, Mining World
    • Helvetios VII - Agri-World
    • Helvetios IX - Hive World
      • Helvetios IX-Theta - Moon of Helvetios IX, Industrial World
      • Helvetios IX-Rho - Moon of Helvetios IX, Penal World
      • Helvetios IX-Phi - Moon of Helvetios IX, Pleasure World
    • Helvetios XIV - Garrison World
  • Attica Station - Imperial Navy Starport
  • Setlon System - 4 Planets
    • Havoc - Death World
    • Lugus - Feudal World
  • Trinoxtion System- 2 Planets
  • Uxellodunon System - 8 Planets
    • Szovrat - Mining World
  • Zyri System - 3 Planets
 
Closest Worlds of Note
  • Alsanta - Ork World (Arch-Arsonist of Charadon)
  • Altev-IV (Altevfor) - Mechanicus Forge World / Knight House Homeworld
  • Dreer - Militarum Recruiting World
  • Eydolim - Ministorum Shrine World
  • Eye of Damocles - Ordo Xenos Watch Fortress
  • Ichar IV - Hive World
  • Pavonis - Administratum Mining World
 
NOTABLE ENGAGEMENTS
 
##Data headers received. Compiling##
 
The Arotani Schism
Battle of Korlian 454
The Blechten Incident
Suppression of Vylith X
Purge of Iscaes 
Waaagh! Snazlgutz
Helvetios IX
 
##Requesting Updated Files. Additional data to Follow##
 
 
RELATIONS
 
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Brother Perilas, 5th Company Tactical Marine  (5)

ALLIANCES

  • The Praetorians maintain a cooperative relationship with the Adeptus Mechanicus and Questor-Mechanicus forces based on Altev-IV, the closest Forge World to the Nidus cluster which also supplies a great portion of the Chapter’s materiel.
  • Cordial relations exist between the Argent Praetorians and several other Astartes chapters based in the Realm of Ultramar, although they have a particular kinship with the ##REDACTED## after the two chapters both contributed several companies to the Dorian Excusion in to the Eastern Fringe.  
  • Several planets within the Nidus Cluster contribute regiments to the Astra Militarum, with the Helvetian Ash-Hounds being the most numerous. Often found in warzones in the region around the Nidus Cluster, 
  • The Adepta Sororitas Order of the Divine Vision, based on the shrine world of Eydolim aided in the cleansing of a significant Ork Waaagh! from the Nidus cluster in early M40, and have fought alongside Praetorian forces in the wider region on several other occasions.

RIVALRIES

  • Located within the boundaries of the so-called Ork “Empire” claimed by the Arch-Arsonist of Charadon, the Nidus cluster has seen several Ork incursions in recent centuries. A major Waaagh! caused significant damage to Imperial interests in the cluster before eventually being repelled in 342.M40. Alongside successful campaigns in the wider region, more recently the Warboss Snazlgutz inflicted one of the Praetorian’s most damaging defeats, entirely destroying the 2nd Company and attached elements when they responded to the invasion of the Helvetios system in late M41. Snazlgutz remains at large and is a high priority target for the Praetorians, who have so far failed to corner him.
  • Necron forces of the Sautekh dynasty proved to be a irregular, although persistent threat to the Praetorians across several centuries up to early M41. Since then, their forces have not been sighted, although Necrons bearing different heraldry are being sighted more frequently.
  • Following a disastrous campaign in the Plaean system which ended with a chastising intervention by the 4th Company Ultramarines, no love is lost between the Argent Praetorians and the marines of the ##REDACTED##, with each chapter blaming the other for the failure to eradicate Death Guard forces from the region.

 

APPENDIX
GLOSSARY OF TERMS
Spoiler

 

ARTWORK  & IMAGE CREDITS

Spoiler

 

FOOTNOTES

Spoiler

 

CHANGELOG

Spoiler

Edited by Halandaar, 02 May 2021 - 07:35 PM.

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#2
Bjorn Firewalker

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You're off to a good start. As each Company is a miniature Chapter- with its own Scout, Reserve, Battle, and Veteran Squads- I think it's best to reorganize it into five Great Companies with 200 Marines each, for an economy of scale that increases each Company's self-sufficiency.

The Chapter name can be literally translated as "Silver Guards". Is it in any way related to a canon Chapter featured in Dan Abnett's Gaunt's Ghosts novels?
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Previous projects: Wolves of Catachan (the Wolfbrothers Chapter reborn), Steel Crusaders (Codex: Iron Hands), Iron-hearted Angels (Codex: Blood Angels supplement).

Current projects: Knights of Renaissance (Star Wars: The Force Awakens Marines), Grim Knights of Grimm Nights (Red vs. Blue Marines).

#3
Brother Lunkhead

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You're off to a good start and I'm looking forward to seeing moreyes.gif

 

The design of your heraldry looks good, very simple and striking.

 

I have a question concerning your chapter's battlecry. Why the conjuction "Et", which makes for "And in his name" and not simply "In nomine eius" thus translating to "In his name"?

 

Your chapter structure with ten independent companies with no veteran, reserve or scout companies looks more appropriate for a crusading chapter which fights over a vast area of space and thus must be completely self reliant. It doesn't look to be necessary or practical for a sentinel chapter, responsible for such a small area of space, even if it is highly active. I'm not saying you shouldn't do this. I'd just like to see the justification for it.


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#4
Gamiel

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As each Company is a miniature Chapter- with its own Scout, Reserve, Battle, and Veteran Squads- I think it's best to reorganize it into five Great Companies with 200 Marines each, for an economy of scale that increases each Company's self-sufficiency.

 

Your chapter structure with ten independent companies with no veteran, reserve or scout companies looks more appropriate for a crusading chapter which fights over a vast area of space and thus must be completely self reliant. It doesn't look to be necessary or practical for a sentinel chapter, responsible for such a small area of space, even if it is highly active. I'm not saying you shouldn't do this. I'd just like to see the justification for it.

I just want to point out that both the Iron Hands and the Salamanders have the organisation where the Chapter’s companies are each a self-contained unit responsible for its own recruiting and maintenance of its motorpool. And I think the same goes for the Sons of Medusa and Emperor's Spears.


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#5
Halandaar

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You're off to a good start. As each Company is a miniature Chapter- with its own Scout, Reserve, Battle, and Veteran Squads- I think it's best to reorganize it into five Great Companies with 200 Marines each, for an economy of scale that increases each Company's self-sufficiency.

The Chapter name can be literally translated as "Silver Guards". Is it in any way related to a canon Chapter featured in Dan Abnett's Gaunt's Ghosts novels?

 

I'm afraid there's nothing sophisticated about the way I came up with the name, it's just the colour scheme I wanted to paint my models (Silver) made to sound more heraldic (Argent) with a Space-Mariney sounding second bit that tied in to the Roman theme (Praetorians). So no, they're no relation at all, I wasn't even aware of the Silver Guard! I find it extremely interesting that the colour scheme on that Fandom article is the exact same colours as mine just in a different combination, but perhaps even more so this illustration from the Sabbat Worlds Crusade book that's linked at the bottom, which is nearly one-for-one what I've come up with.

 

I'm feeling a bit conflicted about this, like on the one hand my entire thing has been completely undercut because I somehow stumbled on basically the same name AND colour scheme as a canon chapter, but on the other it maybe gives me a link to the canon if i choose to tie the chapters together somehow?

 

I have a question concerning your chapter's battlecry. Why the conjuction "Et", which makes for "And in his name" and not simply "In nomine eius" thus translating to "In his name"?

 

I did wonder about "Et", but honestly my knowledge of Latin Imperial High Gothic isn't so much that presumed to know better than Google translate! Thanks for the tip though, duly corrected.

 

Your chapter structure with ten independent companies with no veteran, reserve or scout companies looks more appropriate for a crusading chapter which fights over a vast area of space and thus must be completely self reliant. It doesn't look to be necessary or practical for a sentinel chapter, responsible for such a small area of space, even if it is highly active. I'm not saying you shouldn't do this. I'd just like to see the justification for it.

 

Ultimately, this project is an attempt at consolidating the way I want to collect, paint and play my models with the lore. My intent with the Argent Praetorians "project" was to build a single Space Marine force that, in game terms, I can run as any officially-supported chapter with rules, including things as disparate as Dark Angels and Space Wolves, using a core of generic units that would slot into any army alongside chapter-specific stuff (like Sanguinary Guard or Ravenwing Black Knights).

 

In looking for a logical way to group stuff together, I decided that all the Blood Angel stuff could go in one company, all the Space Wolves stuff in another, and so on. That gave me a need to explain different Veteran units who had a thematic tie to a company, rather than the chapter at large. So "Wolf Guard Terminators" look wolfy because they're permanently assigned to the company who love to wear pelts, and look distinctly different from the "Deathwing Knights" who look the way they do because they serve with the guys who wear robes, tabards and hoods. 

 

I appreciate that this isn't necessarily a good reason to do a particular thing in lore and i may need to just divorce the gaming side from what I'm creating here in order for it to make sense.


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#6
Gamiel

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I'm feeling a bit conflicted about this, like on the one hand my entire thing has been completely undercut because I somehow stumbled on basically the same name AND colour scheme as a canon chapter, but on the other it maybe gives me a link to the canon if i choose to tie the chapters together somehow?

Having recently gone through some of the official Chapters with illustrations do I have to say that it's not uncommon that two Chapters more or less have the same colour, nor is it unusuall with two names that more or less mean the same if translated into plainest of English.

 

 

I appreciate that this isn't necessarily a good reason to do a particular thing in lore and i may need to just divorce the gaming side from what I'm creating here in order for it to make sense.

 

I would say that's as good a reason as any, and better then some.


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#7
Ferrus Manus

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A good start here Halandaar, I have a few thoughts/ questions:

 

 

 

The Argent Praetorians were created in the 24th founding of M39 to fulfill a need to protect an undermanned region of Imperial space in the Segmentum Ultima; the Nidus Cluster, 

 

Why specifically this region? A founding of the Adeptus Astartes is an event of no small magnitude, what is so important about this region that it specifically requires the permanent defence of a whole Chapter?

 

 

 

Over the millennia since their arrival in the system, Valas has become a civilised world of feuding noble houses who continue to provide the chapter’s recruits,

 

So in short, the opposite environment to what it was when the Chapter first selected it as their homeworld? Any particular reason, did one Clan gain control of the planet? How does the Chapter feel about this? 

 

I'm not questioning to criticise, I think developing the reasoning behind what your saying will add to the interest of the Chapter.


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My WIP Space Marine Chapter

#8
Brother Lunkhead

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I just want to point out that both the Iron Hands and the Salamanders have the organisation where the Chapter’s companies are each a self-contained unit responsible for its own recruiting and maintenance of its motorpool. And I think the same goes for the Sons of Medusa and Emperor's Spears.

True, sort ofhappy.png Each company of these chapters' companies are organized along the lines with a degree of autonomy, but both are driven in this direction by strong cultural traditions dating back over ten thousand years. Both chapters were also victims of the Istvaan Massacre, which further solidified the need for more unique and autonomous structure. Neither Iron Hands or Salamanders are bastion/sentinel chapters and have responsibilities across the Imperium, so having a greater degree of self sufficiency has it's benefits. And yet, both chapter structures still comply to a great degree organizationally with the Codex Astartes as illustrated here and here.

 

 

I'm feeling a bit conflicted about this, like on the one hand my entire thing has been completely undercut because I somehow stumbled on basically the same name AND colour scheme as a canon chapter, but on the other it maybe gives me a link to the canon if i choose to tie the chapters together somehow?

 

Quite frankly, if I were you, I wouldn't worry about this at all.  Even though there is some superficial similarity between your chapter heraldry and that of the Silver Guard it's quite trivial. Even though there's a wide variety of livery colors and patterns availble, it's still a finite number and it's only a matter of time before similarities occur and this is not the first time.

 

 

I did wonder about "Et", but honestly my knowledge of Latin Imperial High Gothic isn't so much that presumed to know better than Google translate! Thanks for the tip though, duly corrected.

 

Google translate is a useful tool. I studied Latin a long long time ago and retain a fair working knowledge of it, but I use Google Translate too. The trouble is that being algorithm based it's prone to minor (and sometimes major) translation errors. I've found that looking at variations in what I'm translating and 

then switching back and forth between Latin and English and then choosing what looks and sounds best usually does the trickmsn-wink.gif

 

 

Ultimately, this project is an attempt at consolidating the way I want to collect, paint and play my models with the lore. My intent with the Argent Praetorians "project" was to build a single Space Marine force that, in game terms, I can run as any officially-supported chapter with rules, including things as disparate as Dark Angels and Space Wolves, using a core of generic units that would slot into any army alongside chapter-specific stuff (like Sanguinary Guard or Ravenwing Black Knights).

 

In looking for a logical way to group stuff together, I decided that all the Blood Angel stuff could go in one company, all the Space Wolves stuff in another, and so on. That gave me a need to explain different Veteran units who had a thematic tie to a company, rather than the chapter at large. So "Wolf Guard Terminators" look wolfy because they're permanently assigned to the company who love to wear pelts, and look distinctly different from the "Deathwing Knights" who look the way they do because they serve with the guys who wear robes, tabards and hoods. 

 

I appreciate that this isn't necessarily a good reason to do a particular thing in lore and i may need to just divorce the gaming side from what I'm creating here in order for it to make sense.

 

 

 

I would say that's as good a reason as any, and better then some.

 

I'm with Brother Gamiel on thisyes.gif All I'm getting at is you should develop some backstory as part of your chapter's history to explain it's organization, just like the Salamanders and Iron Hands history suggests an explanation for their chapters' organization. I think your logic of integrating your army building and lore suggests a solution. You should pursue a story along those lines. I think that will lead to very fruitful results unique to your chapterbiggrin.png


Edited by Brother Lunkhead, 03 February 2021 - 05:26 PM.

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#9
Bjorn Firewalker

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I just want to point out that both the Iron Hands and the Salamanders have the organisation where the Chapter’s companies are each a self-contained unit responsible for its own recruiting and maintenance of its motorpool.

The Iron Hands and the Salamanders are both First Founding Chapters; this prestige should grant them at least as much leeway as the Space Wolves, whose Great Companies may have almost 200 Marines (Ragnar Blackmane's Great Company's stated size, in 5th Edition's Codex: Space Wolves).

Games Workshop's writers need to think further ahead. I personally do not believe 100 Marines is enough to grant a Company the self-sufficiency necessary to conduct extended campaigns. If you "creatively interpret" the Codex Astartes so a Company with 150-200 Marines count as one with 100 Marines, due to the Codex omitting support personnel (the crews of the Company's tanks, flyers, and starships) from the count, THEN I can suspend disbelief and agree with the statement each Company is self-sufficient; but Halandaar should state the Chapter uses such "creative interpretations."

All I'm getting at is you should develop some backstory as part of your chapter's history to explain it's organization, just like the Salamanders and Iron Hands history suggests an explanation for their chapters' organization. I think your logic of integrating your army building and lore suggests a solution. You should pursue a story along those lines.

I agree.

Edited by Bjorn Firewalker, 03 February 2021 - 07:29 PM.

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Previous projects: Wolves of Catachan (the Wolfbrothers Chapter reborn), Steel Crusaders (Codex: Iron Hands), Iron-hearted Angels (Codex: Blood Angels supplement).

Current projects: Knights of Renaissance (Star Wars: The Force Awakens Marines), Grim Knights of Grimm Nights (Red vs. Blue Marines).

#10
Halandaar

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I'm not questioning to criticise, I think developing the reasoning behind what your saying will add to the interest of the Chapter.

 

I perhaps should have been mentioned in the initial post that I absolutely view this as a basis to work from, and welcome all questions (and criticism!) that will prompt me to think and add more detail. Thank you for taking the time to ask!

 

 

The Argent Praetorians were created in the 24th founding of M39 to fulfill a need to protect an undermanned region of Imperial space in the Segmentum Ultima; the Nidus Cluster, 

 

Why specifically this region? A founding of the Adeptus Astartes is an event of no small magnitude, what is so important about this region that it specifically requires the permanent defence of a whole Chapter?

 

My primary (and slightly flippant!) response, is that if AD-B can canonise a region of 20-ish planets with no established value other than being Imperial territory, and give that not one but three dedicated Astartes chapters to defend it, then I can get away with one!

 

More seriously, I've already sketched out a little bit of detail on Nidus and why it requires it's own Astartes wardens. Part of it is the location; I've placed it west of Ultramar and the T'au Empire, in a spot which I think (based on some dodgy map comparisons) puts it in an area of space claimed by both the Ork Empire of Charadon and what used to be the Sautekh Dynasty, now controlled by the Szarekhan. This hopefully provides enough of a residual threat to the area that Ork incursions are not uncommon, that a Necron tomb world awakening in the region seems feasible, and a T'au expeditionary fleet might make it out that far, all while still having the nearest Astartes bases (Newfound, Nihilas, Eye of Damocles) far enough away that a response from any of those could take a catastrophic amount of time to arrive.

 

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I do still want to come up with something of actual value in the Nidus Cluster that makes it with defending rather than just re-conquering if required, but I'm not sure on this yet. Initially I was thinking a Navy shipyard. In the meantime, my initial sketches on the systems within the cluster and an idea of what some of the worlds within might be below (very drafty)

Spoiler
 

 

 

Over the millennia since their arrival in the system, Valas has become a civilised world of feuding noble houses who continue to provide the chapter’s recruits,

 

So in short, the opposite environment to what it was when the Chapter first selected it as their homeworld? 

 

Exactly this. I thought it would make an interesting contrast with the chapter starting off as a straight-laced Ultramarine successor and becoming more feral over time. Having integrated the clan culture into the chapter upon inception, my idea is that they doubled down on "tradition" even as the human populace slowly moved away from it.

 

An image I've had in my mind while thinking about this is the portayal of Arminius from the end of the Netflix show Barbaren; combining the aesthetic of the Roman officer with the warpaint of Germanic tribal warriors;

Spoiler

 

Any particular reason, did one Clan gain control of the planet? How does the Chapter feel about this? 

 

I figured that it is unreasonable to expect society on a human-populated world to remain static for thousands of years unless it was being intentionally maintained that way, and I decided it would feel realistic for a feudal society to act in much the same way ancient Terra's population did and slowly advance itself. Perhaps not to the level of spaceflight, but certainly to the point that they no longer live in huts and go to war over scraps. I'm thinking of pitching the Valasian's "modern" position as a Renaissance-equivalent time.

 

How the chapter feels about it is the bit I've not really gotten very far with yet. Their interaction with the Valasians is limited to scooping up aspirants every generation or so. My initial feeling is I want the Praetorians to feel like the guardians of ancient traditions, rather than being resentful that the culture they adopted is being abandoned by the world that it came from. 

 

Quite frankly, if I were you, I wouldn't worry about this at all.  Even though there is some superficial similarity between your chapter heraldry and that of the Silver Guard it's quite trivial. Even though there's a wide variety of livery colors and patterns available, it's still a finite number and it's only a matter of time before similarities occur and this is not the first time.

 

I think it's the combination of the name and the colours together that frustrated me, but n reflection honestly I like what I've already got enough to persist with it regardless. You're quite right about there being a finite number of combinations and just like two songs can use the same chord progression without being derivative of each other, so too can forces on opposite sides of the galaxy have the same coloured armour without it being a problem!

 

Games Workshop's writers need to think further ahead. I personally do not believe 100 Marines is enough to grant a Company the self-sufficiency necessary to conduct extended campaigns. If you "creatively interpret" the Codex Astartes so a Company with 150-200 Marines count as one with 100 Marines, due to the Codex omitting support personnel (the crews of the Company's tanks, flyers, and starships) from the count, THEN I can suspend disbelief and agree with the statement each Company is self-sufficient; but Halandaar should state the Chapter uses such "creative interpretations."

 

Absolutely agree with this. I think the idea of strict 100-man Marine companies is a bit misleading anyway. Even per the Codex (IRL gaming book, not the in-universe version) an example Company is 106 Marines once you account for the Captain, Lieutenants, Company Veterans and so on, and that doesn't include Dreadnoughts and any attached members of the Apothecarion, Reclusiam, Librarius and Armoury. Scale that up across 10 Companies and you're looking at a chapter of 1100-odd Marines plus Neophytes, and that's before you even factor in the Chapter Command, vehicle and aircraft crews, fortress and fleet staff and so on. It doesn't feel unrealistic to me at all that the actual number of Astartes in even a Codex-Compliant chapter could be anywhere up to 1500.

 

Anyway, the reason i'm using the traditional ten companies rather than a smaller number of bigger ones (which absolutely would make more sense here) is once again a gameplay thing; I want each chapter with rules/models to have it's own assigned company that I can put them in, currently looking something like this:

  • 01 - Dark Angels
  • 02 - Black Templars
  • 03 - Ultramarines
  • 04 - Salamanders
  • 05 - Space Wolves
  • 06 - White Scars
  • 07 - Blood Angels / Flesh Tearers
  • 08 - Imperial Fists / Crimson Fists
  • 09 - Iron Hands
  • 10 - Raven Guard

If I can't make this make any sense, I'll consider changing the structure.

 

Thanks everybody for your really helpful comments and questions, please by all means keep them coming!


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#11
Bjorn Firewalker

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Although in the ages since those clans variously fell, rose, merged, transformed or vanished, the Bear, Boar, Bull, Crow, Eagle, Fox, Hawk, Serpent, Spider and Stag clans are represented in perpetuity in the halls of the Bastion.


Anyway, the reason i'm using the traditional ten companies rather than a smaller number of bigger ones (which absolutely would make more sense here) is once again a gameplay thing; I want each chapter with rules/models to have it's own assigned company that I can put them in, currently looking something like this:

  • 01 - Dark Angels
  • 02 - Black Templars
  • 03 - Ultramarines
  • 04 - Salamanders
  • 05 - Space Wolves
  • 06 - White Scars
  • 07 - Blood Angels / Flesh Tearers
  • 08 - Imperial Fists / Crimson Fists
  • 09 - Iron Hands
  • 10 - Raven Guard

So each Company represents one of the Loyalist Legions that fought in the Horus Heresy? Interesting idea. I find it strange you listed the Black Templars among them, as the Templars are an Imperial Fists successor. Maybe replace the Templars with the individualistic Custodes, or the specialized Deathwatch?

Edited by Bjorn Firewalker, 04 February 2021 - 01:24 AM.

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Previous projects: Wolves of Catachan (the Wolfbrothers Chapter reborn), Steel Crusaders (Codex: Iron Hands), Iron-hearted Angels (Codex: Blood Angels supplement).

Current projects: Knights of Renaissance (Star Wars: The Force Awakens Marines), Grim Knights of Grimm Nights (Red vs. Blue Marines).

#12
Halandaar

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Although in the ages since those clans variously fell, rose, merged, transformed or vanished, the Bear, Boar, Bull, Crow, Eagle, Fox, Hawk, Serpent, Spider and Stag clans are represented in perpetuity in the halls of the Bastion.

Anyway, the reason i'm using the traditional ten companies rather than a smaller number of bigger ones (which absolutely would make more sense here) is once again a gameplay thing; I want each chapter with rules/models to have it's own assigned company that I can put them in, currently looking something like this:

  • 01 - Dark Angels
  • 02 - Black Templars
  • 03 - Ultramarines
  • 04 - Salamanders
  • 05 - Space Wolves
  • 06 - White Scars
  • 07 - Blood Angels / Flesh Tearers
  • 08 - Imperial Fists / Crimson Fists
  • 09 - Iron Hands
  • 10 - Raven Guard
So each Company represents one of the Loyalist Legions that fought in the Horus Heresy? Interesting idea. I find it strange you listed the Black Templars among them, as the Templars are an Imperial Fists successor. Maybe replace the Templars with the individualistic Custodes, or the specialized Deathwatch?

Just to clarify, it's not an intended part of my lore that the companies actually acknowledge the First Founding Legions. It's purely an "out-of-character" thing to help me organize my physical army. I.e. the 7th Company don't actually try to emulate the Blood Angels, they just make extensive use of Jump Packs and Chainswords and I'd use BA rules to play them. That's why the Templars are in there; because they've got distinct rules and for no other reason.

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#13
Bjorn Firewalker

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So each Company represents one of the Loyalist Legions that fought in the Horus Heresy? Interesting idea. I find it strange you listed the Black Templars among them, as the Templars are an Imperial Fists successor. Maybe replace the Templars with the individualistic Custodes, or the specialized Deathwatch?

Just to clarify, it's not an intended part of my lore that the companies actually acknowledge the First Founding Legions. It's purely an "out-of-character" thing to help me organize my physical army. I.e. the 7th Company don't actually try to emulate the Blood Angels, they just make extensive use of Jump Packs and Chainswords and I'd use BA rules to play them. That's why the Templars are in there; because they've got distinct rules and for no other reason.
Fair enough.

So the Foxes (5th Century) are Space Wolves analogues; the Bears (8th Century) are Imperial Fists analogues. I'm assuming the Eagles are Ultramarines analogues, the Hawks the Blood Angel analogues, the Crows the Raven Guard analogues. Who, then, are the Boars, Bulls, Serpents, Spiders, and Stags?

Edited by Bjorn Firewalker, 04 February 2021 - 07:09 AM.

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Previous projects: Wolves of Catachan (the Wolfbrothers Chapter reborn), Steel Crusaders (Codex: Iron Hands), Iron-hearted Angels (Codex: Blood Angels supplement).

Current projects: Knights of Renaissance (Star Wars: The Force Awakens Marines), Grim Knights of Grimm Nights (Red vs. Blue Marines).

#14
Gamiel

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I just want to point out that both the Iron Hands and the Salamanders have the organisation where the Chapter’s companies are each a self-contained unit responsible for its own recruiting and maintenance of its motorpool.

The Iron Hands and the Salamanders are both First Founding Chapters; this prestige should grant them at least as much leeway as the Space Wolves, whose Great Companies may have almost 200 Marines (Ragnar Blackmane's Great Company's stated size, in 5th Edition's Codex: Space Wolves).

Can't talk about the size of the Salamanders' Companies (they only have seven of them but I don't think it has ever been stated that they just have 100 marines in each, so it's possible that they have ca. 1000 marines spread out on seven companies), but I'm rather certain that the Iron Hands' ten clan-companies are of similar size as a standard Codex Chapter’s companies.

 

Also, the Sons of Medusa and Emperor's Spears are not First or even Second founding Chapters, and I'm certain they are not the only successors where companies are more or less self-contained units.

 

 

 



 

The Argent Praetorians were created in the 24th founding of M39 to fulfill a need to protect an undermanned region of Imperial space in the Segmentum Ultima; the Nidus Cluster, 

 

Why specifically this region? A founding of the Adeptus Astartes is an event of no small magnitude, what is so important about this region that it specifically requires the permanent defence of a whole Chapter?


 

 

My primary (and slightly flippant!) response, is that if AD-B can canonise a region of 20-ish planets with no established value other than being Imperial territory, and give that not one but three dedicated Astartes chapters to defend it, then I can get away with one!

 

More seriously, I've already sketched out a little bit of detail on Nidus and why it requires it's own Astartes wardens. Part of it is the location; I've placed it west of Ultramar and the T'au Empire, in a spot which I think (based on some dodgy map comparisons) puts it in an area of space claimed by both the Ork Empire of Charadon and what used to be the Sautekh Dynasty, now controlled by the Szarekhan. This hopefully provides enough of a residual threat to the area that Ork incursions are not uncommon, that a Necron tomb world awakening in the region seems feasible, and a T'au expeditionary fleet might make it out that far, all while still having the nearest Astartes bases (Newfound, Nihilas, Eye of Damocles) far enough away that a response from any of those could take a catastrophic amount of time to arrive.

 

med_gallery_84244_16882_1694989.png

 

I do still want to come up with something of actual value in the Nidus Cluster that makes it with defending rather than just re-conquering if required, but I'm not sure on this yet. Initially I was thinking a Navy shipyard. In the meantime, my initial sketches on the systems within the cluster and an idea of what some of the worlds within might be below (very drafty

Just want to point out that this is the Human Imperium, there need not to be something of actual value for a Chapter to be assigned there. You could just have it that: the Emperor’s Tarot declared that the Chapter should be placed there; one of the High Lords looked on the galactic map and decided that there was an area that lacked a near Chapter; there is nothing of value there but by being there they function as a watch fortress and first line of defence from roaming threats; a mistake in the paperwork placed them there and they don’t know it, or they know it but the administrator will not admit mistakes and will not move them to where they were supposed to be (meaning that all equipment/similar that get shipped to them only go to their assigned world); that the area was a hotbead for trouble when the Chapter was placed there to clean up and watch over it; 

 

 

My initial feeling is I want the Praetorians to feel like the guardians of ancient traditions, rather than being resentful that the culture they adopted is being abandoned by the world that it came from. .

I like this idea.


Edited by Gamiel, 04 February 2021 - 09:32 AM.

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#15
Halandaar

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So the Foxes (5th Century) are Space Wolves analogues; the Bears (8th Century) are Imperial Fists analogues. I'm assuming the Eagles are Ultramarines analogues, the Hawks the Blood Angel analogues, the Crows the Raven Guard analogues. Who, then, are the Boars, Bulls, Serpents, Spiders, and Stags?

 

Exactly right! Does that mean they're too obvious? The rest are Boar = Iron Hands, Bull = Templars, Serpent = Salamanders, Spider = DA, Stag = White Scars. 

 

Just want to point out that this is the Human Imperium, there need not to be something of actual value for a Chapter to be assigned there.

...

that the area was a hotbead for trouble when the Chapter was placed there to clean up and watch over it; 

 

Agreed, the only justification required for protecting Imperial interests is that they exist, I suppose the question is what makes the relatively substantial action of deploying an Astartes chapter required, rather than just additional Navy/Militarum support. 

 

At the moment I'm thinking the location of the cluster within the boundaries of the Charadon Empire means it's susceptible to Ork raids on a semi-frequent basis, and it's being sort of equidistant between other major Imperial military installations makes it a sensible place to host a Marine chapter which can support other important regions in the vicinity.


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#16
Zebulon

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I know I have slightly missed the boat on this one, but as a former classical scholar I would like to weigh in on the use of “Et”...

It can imply “Even” instead of “And” - as in the famous phrase “Et in Arcadia ego...” which in the equally famous painting is inscribed on the tombstone, the implication being that even in this earthly paradise, death still came for me. It is poetic language, and it could be argued therefore that it does add something to your battle cry.

Even in His Name/In His Name. Does the former have more force? I would say it possibly does. It adds greater shades of meaning (or potential interpretation). Even in his name -what? I sacrifice my life in his name? I bring justice in his name? I slay the unrighteous in his name? Even in his name (which is Good) I commit mass murder (which is bad - but because he is good, I claim absolution for these grevious sins...?)

Perhaps that’s enough overthinking from me, really I just wanted to say that the “Et” may add more than you think.
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#17
Doctor Perils

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Lots of good stuff and good responses here. Not sure if I've got _too_ much to add, but I'll try anyway:
1 - I'd recommend editing your first post with any updates to the article (you can always repost the old version in a separate post to keep track of changes): this would make it easier for newcomers to the thread to understand what's going on ;)
2 - I understand perfectly the wish to have your DIY chapter's lore reflect your collection, there is nothing wrong with that; just as there is nothing wrong with having naming and colour scheme similarities with canonverse chapters. I also understand how you would like self-contained companies, with potentially more than 100 marines (Salamanders have 120 marines per company, but do have differently proportioned reserve companies by the by). If you have trouble explaining those changes away from their founding events, I can suggest an easy work-around: Guilliman's new codex has been shaking up the organisation of many chapters, and I believe it is yet to be finished. There is now much more leeway for "experimental" organisations, if that can help you.
3 - another change-up from the codex Astartes I've not seen anyone mention is the Tesserarius. It's a good idea in principle, but I think you're missing an in-universe explanation of what their duties are and how they came about (I may have just missed it) - do you have any further ideas about it?
4 - I used to (well, still do) get different language names for ranks and things like that, but have grown to dislike their usage within the body of an article in general - it doesn't really serve much purpose for your chapter's identity to call your captains captains-in-all-but-name, especially when it may confuse readers. In your case it's not so egregious because a lot of readers know the rudiments of these terms, but I'd still recommend you only mention their generalised usage of high gothic in passing, with a glossary at the end of the article
5 - looking forward to seeing a couple of notable battles and characters to see how their culture mixing tribal ferocity and "civilised" duels expresses itself in the heat of battle :)
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sml_gallery_29004_12090_3983.pnggallery_77459_13226_2824.png The War Wolves - Previously known as Lord Thørn

#18
Halandaar

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I've not spent anywhere near as much time as I'd like thinking about how to advance this article over the last month or so, but one thing I have done is draw up a new chapter badge, using my world-beating skills as a graphic designer (by which I mean a long time fiddling in MS Paint teehee.gif). Here's the result, also edited into the original post:

 

gallery_84244_16882_3688.jpg

 

Lots of good stuff and good responses here. Not sure if I've got _too_ much to add, but I'll try anyway:
1 - I'd recommend editing your first post with any updates to the article (you can always repost the old version in a separate post to keep track of changes): this would make it easier for newcomers to the thread to understand what's going on msn-wink.gif

 

Thanks for the pointer, I'll be doing this from now onward and including a change log at the bottom of the first post!

 

3 - another change-up from the codex Astartes I've not seen anyone mention is the Tesserarius. It's a good idea in principle, but I think you're missing an in-universe explanation of what their duties are and how they came about (I may have just missed it) - do you have any further ideas about it?

 

This was a sort of "Lieutenant" rank implemented by the chapter prior to it's formal reintroduction to the Codex by Guilliman. They are drawn from the Veteran Squad embedded within the company and function as the Captains' 2nd in command, and lead the 2nd demi-company if the force is deployed in such a way. I figure that when Lieutenants were reintroduced, they implemented them as an addition, rather than a replacement of the Tesserarius rank.

 

4 - I used to (well, still do) get different language names for ranks and things like that, but have grown to dislike their usage within the body of an article in general - it doesn't really serve much purpose for your chapter's identity to call your captains captains-in-all-but-name, especially when it may confuse readers. In your case it's not so egregious because a lot of readers know the rudiments of these terms, but I'd still recommend you only mention their generalised usage of high gothic in passing, with a glossary at the end of the article

 

I wholeheartedly agree with this, I don't want it to become a battle to read where people are constantly having to refer back to what things mean. I'm going for a middle ground where I introduce the local-language name the first time it's relevant, and then revert to Gothic after that with a glossary at the end.

 

5 - looking forward to seeing a couple of notable battles and characters to see how their culture mixing tribal ferocity and "civilised" duels expresses itself in the heat of battle smile.png

 

It will come eventually, I promise!


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