Chimera / Sentinels in 9th

[Lord Robertsen]

I almost completely stopped using my chimera and sentinels in 8th edition. Points needed to be spent on killy things like Tanks and Manticores.  However 9th edition is all about board control and objectives. This has me looking at all of our lighter vehicles and transports again. 

 

Chimera - Has anyone had much luck using these units to aggressively push onto objectives? Do you find the points taken away from big guns are helping you win games? Or even just throwing 2 heavy flamers on a chimera and running into threats to hold them in place for a turn or two. 

 

Sentinels - Always loved theses but never really made them work in past editions. But now with the +2 to hit strat I'm thinking 3 sentinels with HK missiles might be a new standby. And with being able to move and fire heavy with no penalty they can also push up on objectives with no penalty. Anyone having luck with these?

[Azekai]

A big problem with the sentinels and tanks is that they could get tagged and then not do anything- that is gone in 9th. They also recently changed the punishing Bring It Down secondary to award less points for light vehicles.

I have not used my guard yet in 9th (Praise Nurgle ) but I am seeing the appeal in the old 'armored company' style of play. I have quite a few chimeras that hardly ever see the light of day. I think now is the time to experiment. Neither unit is shockingly deadly, but they have their uses. 

Sentinels seem good for screening, and those scout moves can be very handy for early board control. Both sentinels and chimera models take up a fair bit of space, and make for good ways to block avenues of attack, or in the chimera's case, LoS. Offensively, they are nothing to write home about, but if you are forcing opponents to mess with your screening units, any damage those screens cause is gravy.

 

Edited February 9, 2021 by Azekai

[Lord Robertsen]

 Offensively, they are nothing to write home about, but if you are forcing opponents to mess with your screening units, any damage those screens cause is gravy.

 

 

 

That's what I'm thinking. Not trying to kill much with them (but that would be nice). More - run them forward and into advancing enemy units that they can slow down. 

 

TC w/ battle canon, heavy bolter sponsons and a las canon - 230 point

• T8 , W12, 3+ save 
• High damage output
• Slow (assuming you want to fire the battle canon twice)

 

3x Armored Sentinels with autocanons and HK's + a Chimera with a heavy flamer and multilaser - 225 point 

• T6 w/18 wounds, T7 w/10 wounds, 3+ saves 
• Low damage output (solid turn 1 volley with sentinel strat) 
• Medium speed but much more mobile than the TC 

 

So I usually would bring 3 TC's, but maybe it's worth dropping one of them to spread around 4 light vehicles that put more than double the amount of wounds on the table to go push / delay around objectives 

Edited February 9, 2021 by Lord Robertsen

[sairence]

Chimeras are definitely an option. They were decent before, but with the recent point drop and change to bring it down they've become very good and viable.

 

I made a list with 7 of them. 4 for infantry squads, 3 for 3 units of bullgryns.

 

Sentinels are also more viable now, but I'm still on the fence how useful they are. Bringing 1 or 2 Scouts to throw forward at the start is possible again though.

 

As always, it really depends on the rest of your list.

Edited February 10, 2021 by sairence

[Jings]

Big thing that stops me fielding my old Mech Guard list (3x Chimeras @ 1Kish) is Vets being Elites. I can't really use them as objective grabbers like I used to (3xPG+LC Vets in ML/HB Chimera, zoom to objective, plant down and take shots), you lose a lot of synergy using Scions and Infantry Squads have all the fragility of Vets with none of the punch. I reckon if Vets get moved back to Troops in the new Dex it'll be a decent stealth buff for Chimeras by actually giving them something good to carry. 

Edited February 10, 2021 by Jings

[duz_]

I tried mech ig once in 9th. Since it was hammer and anvil deployment it became a parking lot. The sentinels were handy road bumps but I got blocked in to my deployment early so the transports were useless.

 

I think if you're gonna do that you really need to consider reserving and outflanking

[sairence]

I doubt we'll get Vets back as troops unless Platoons as single troop choic s also come back and I find that incredibly unlikely with the way the detachment system works.

 

What would be an great boost would be for Chimeras to get their firing platforms back so that some models can fire from inside. Get some of that old drive by shooting back. (And suddenly I had the imagine of a full Flamer SWS inside a double HF Chimera in my head. XD)

 

The getting hemmed in completely sounds rough, but if your opponents come up that quickly it would surely cause the same issue for other units? And it shouldn't be possible for every opponent to do that before you can spread out a bit.

[Warhead01]

I know the scoring system is different now and an early advance is important but I would say a combined arms structure is stronger than leaning too heavy in a single direction. 
I like being able to reserve some units for a deep flank or what have you but feel a defense in depth is a solid option when you don't feel strongly about going second. something to just screen off an early rush to give you some breathing room for your half or turn 1 or turn 2 should you go first. depending on the deployment zones this could just be some conscripts, or an empty transport. For CP free flankers don't forget about rough riders, which can carry 2 special weapons in a unit as small as 5 models. 

I kinda don't see platoons coming back unless they are detachment locked with a special rule to encourage them or not at all. It depends on the cost of the infantry models as to if that's even you want to do. It would be thematic to put a platoon into a whole patrol detachment, if there are enough slots. Maybe not the best option I don't know. 

[sairence]

Rough Riders are legended, but there's plenty of ways to bring deepstrikers and outflankers with Guard. Scions do that kob excellently.

[Azekai]

Rough Riders are legended, but there's plenty of ways to bring deepstrikers and outflankers with Guard. Scions do that kob excellently.

Or, know, just play with the legends units? Not like the non legends units are particularly balanced

[Warhead01]

 

Rough Riders are legended, but there's plenty of ways to bring deepstrikers and outflankers with Guard. Scions do that kob excellently.

Or, know, just play with the legends units? Not like the non legends units are particularly balanced

 

Ya, I've just been keeping in mind that some units have abilities that we wont have to spend cp on. I know Rough Riders will be difficult for some people to get their hands on but they're on my list of units. I like them for their movement speed and out flanking. Something scions will not do quite as well but will make up for with shooting. 

I'm really looking forward to the AM codex for 9th and hopeful that we'll get more abilities for existing units. Vets used to have something like 3 different ways to field them, including being able to deepstrike and infiltrating. Heck even a strat to allow some units to do either would work.  Not to get off into wishlist land for new kits or anything. I know it's more about chimeras and sentinels.  I currently own neither but it's a new year and they are on my hit list. However, I am leaning towards trying the Taurox. Not sure how those stack up against a Chimera on the table. 

 

 

[WarriorFish]

It's a bit of a strange time for mech currently. Chimeras struggle still I feel, the cost compared to what they can realistically bring to the table is my main concern. Is bringing a squad of Guardsmen to a point that great for the cost? Taking more seems to be better in most cases, but perhaps with 9th's changes there is more scope.

 

The movement penality for heavy weapons helps Sentinels a lot, as before they felt a bit too much like moveable pillboxes... While I love my lascannon Armoured Sentinels cheap and cheerful is probably still best. Mobile heavy weapons that can apply pressure and some crafty charges against opportunities could go far, plus the ever useful pickets against Reserve arrivals. Reserves of your own would go far too I think.

 

Anyway, I'm also missing games so I can't offer more than this. As duz notes I think pure mech isn't great right now but perhaps a hybrid approach can work better?

[jarms48]

Chimeras are definitely much better at the moment. Only giving 1 or 2 VP now depending on the secondaries the enemies take. Two heavy flamers can make them great tarpit units. You keep flaming away in engagement range while keeping enemy units away from objectives or away from their ideal targets.

 

Scout Sentinels can help with secondaries thanks to their scout move. By the end of the first turn movement phase they can move a minimum of 19 inch if they advance. That could get you into the opposite table quarters.

 

Armoured Sentinels should be treated similar to Chimeras. They’re about the same points as a double heavy flamer Chimera with track guards. Typically I think the Chimera is better as it’s faster and can transport units. Though the Sentinels have more stratagems and 2 more wounds (at T6 rather than T7 though).

Edited April 8, 2021 by jarms48

[WarriorFish]

I have been thinking about transports recently, albeit originally not Guard ones. The change to vehicle movement and shooting helps Chimeras a lot as they have always struggled a bit between the role of moving troops and providing fire support. I think they are better off, but I'm not sure if I'd be using them outside of pure mechanised where you can get more bang, relatively.

 

I do need to look at Sentinels closely as I love mine and would like to get more but their star has waxed and waned with regularity it feels :P

[Lord Raven 19]

With the D2, twin heavy bolter chimaeras might be worth a look too, 6 S5 Ap-1 D2 shots is not bad at taking on marines at all, and they can start doing damage from further away.

[Galron]

My mech list prior to 9th(haven't had a chance to play it in 9th yet) had 5 chimeras with twin heavy bolters and 3 lascannon armored sentinels in addition to a pair of LR Annihilators and a TC demolisher and executioner. It was a very hard hitting list that did fairly well. I believe I heard correctly that vehicles don't have penalties for moving and shooting their weapons anymore?  Seems to me that would make my list that much better. Also had 6 squads of infantry with plasma guns. Current list uses same chimeras and TCs with only 2 lc Sentinels, 2 devildog hellhounds, a lone LR and a Colossus plus I gave every vehicle except the Colossus a hunter killer missile. Some lists have a lot of anti-armor but its rare to come across someone with that much anti-armor, except tyranids and their stupid hive guard squads :P.