16 replies to this topic

[Iron Father Ferrum]

So I finally got my first box of the new Havocs recently and I wanted to poll the community about mixed loadouts. In the past with both Havocs and Devastators, I have always fielded "pure" squads -- all the gunners have the same weapon -- but that was when I could take some extra bodies to soak up bullets.  I know all of the pros and cons -- getting focused down, stratagem/spell efficiency, splitting fire, etc -- but I figured I'd open the floor.

 

Convince me: pure squads, or mixed squads?

[McElMcNinja]

Well if they follow the new Death Guard, you will only be able to equip them with what’s in the box. So which ever you choose to do you might want to keep that in the back of your mind.

[Gederas]

Well if they follow the new Death Guard, you will only be able to equip them with what’s in the box. So which ever you choose to do you might want to keep that in the back of your mind.

If GW does that, they'll lose this player before he even got a game of 9E Chaos Marines in.
 

Edited by Gederas, 15 February 2021 - 02:31 PM.

[Jings]

 

Well if they follow the new Death Guard, you will only be able to equip them with what’s in the box. So which ever you choose to do you might want to keep that in the back of your mind.

If GW does that, they'll lose this player before he even got a game of 9E Chaos Marines in.
 

 

 

Eh I'll just houserule it, like I'm doing with Death Guard. 

[Marshal Loss]

I only have a single squad of Havocs, and they're mixed - 2 autocannon and 2 lascannon. They've done alright for me, but if I were expanding the army I'd probably just add another squad so I could run two "pure" units.

[Syrakul]

Running a squad with mixed weapons (also agree auto/lascannon) is a good idea and let's you react to other threats that the opponent throws at you. Without ablative bodies (besides champ) a couple cheaper weapons hurts less when they die before having a turn to fire.

If you had say 2ML/2HB for a flexible yet anti-horde arrangement and you take casualties, depending on the situation you can choose what casualties to suffer based on available targets for your surviving members.

 

With a single box, you aren't too poor off taking a mixed loadout, and if/when you get another set, you are free to balance em out. that said, TWO squads with mixed loadouts means the enemy has to focus down on BOTH squads before those lascannons are gone, instead of eliminating just one squad.

 

I was going to say the cost savings would be 40 points over all lascannons in 2 squads but the difference auto/las now is just 5 points on Havocs..... knowing GW that will fluctuate with faqs though

Edited by Syrakul, 15 February 2021 - 03:19 PM.

[Squike]

I run 2 las and 2 auto, and as said its a good unit for mixed situations, where I can choose which weapons to loose depending on the opponent and what is target priority. if I had a second squad I think I would still run mixed but maybe HB and Las instead for some more anti horde options.

[BrainFireBob]

For myself: If two squads, mixed. One squad, mono. Match weapon ranges.

Now, I ran a five man Dev squad for years- lascannon, two missile launchers, plasma cannon, and treated it as two ablative wounds depending on what I was facing, but I had other "mono" squads like multimelta speeders picking up the slack

[SanguinaryGuardsman]

As the rules stand right now mixing is sub optimal since you can only use any given stratagem once per phase on 1 unit.  Mixing will mess up target selection and buffing.  For example, if you are using Alpha Legion, the only legion that can field semi competitive havocs imo, then you want 4 of the same weapon double shooting every turn and protected with concealment so they can keep dealing damage for multiple turns.  If you mix the weapons you will do 2 jobs badly rather than 1 job well.  

 

For the future you got a few options.

 

1. Don't buy an emperordamned thing until GW proves they can write a good CSM codex.  Hasn't happened in a decade and some trust needs to be built up before GW is given any latitude.  

 

2. Buy and paint your models but magnetize everything.  This is a hobby PITA but it saves some money.

 

3.  Buy lots of havocs so you have enough models to field multiple units of any loadout.

 

4. Don't buy havocs.  Unless they go to 3w or can blob up to 10 models in a unit i dont see how they could be good.  They just wont have any ability to stick around so any points investment in them is only ever going to give you 1 turn of shooting per unit.  

 

 

For the record I picked the dumbest least disciplined of these options and can field 10... 4 lascannons and 4 missile launchers.  I even made them the worst possible legion, World Eaters.  

[Irate Khornate]

As the rules stand right now mixing is sub optimal since you can only use any given stratagem once per phase on 1 unit. Mixing will mess up target selection and buffing. For example, if you are using Alpha Legion, the only legion that can field semi competitive havocs imo, then you want 4 of the same weapon double shooting every turn and protected with concealment so they can keep dealing damage for multiple turns. If you mix the weapons you will do 2 jobs badly rather than 1 job well.

For the future you got a few options.

1. Don't buy an emperordamned thing until GW proves they can write a good CSM codex. Hasn't happened in a decade and some trust needs to be built up before GW is given any latitude.

2. Buy and paint your models but magnetize everything. This is a hobby PITA but it saves some money.

3. Buy lots of havocs so you have enough models to field multiple units of any loadout.

4. Don't buy havocs. Unless they go to 3w or can blob up to 10 models in a unit i dont see how they could be good. They just wont have any ability to stick around so any points investment in them is only ever going to give you 1 turn of shooting per unit.


For the record I picked the dumbest least disciplined of these options and can field 10... 4 lascannons and 4 missile launchers. I even made them the worst possible legion, World Eaters.

I really do wish World Eaters will get at least 1 stratagem that helps with guns. A throwback to the Teeth of Khorne.

[Vesalius]

With my IW havocs, I haven’t gotten to run yet, my plan is half and half for flexibility. Two chain cannons, two laser cannon running a mark of slaanesh. My reasoning is this will allow more flexibility with a way to mulch infantry and fight far away and against bigger targets. I’m considering doing a second squad with similar loadout, maybe heavy bolter and autocannon.

We houserule though so it might not jive.

Edited by Vesalius, 16 February 2021 - 05:21 AM.

[SanguinaryGuardsman]

 

As the rules stand right now mixing is sub optimal since you can only use any given stratagem once per phase on 1 unit. Mixing will mess up target selection and buffing. For example, if you are using Alpha Legion, the only legion that can field semi competitive havocs imo, then you want 4 of the same weapon double shooting every turn and protected with concealment so they can keep dealing damage for multiple turns. If you mix the weapons you will do 2 jobs badly rather than 1 job well.

For the future you got a few options.

1. Don't buy an emperordamned thing until GW proves they can write a good CSM codex. Hasn't happened in a decade and some trust needs to be built up before GW is given any latitude.

2. Buy and paint your models but magnetize everything. This is a hobby PITA but it saves some money.

3. Buy lots of havocs so you have enough models to field multiple units of any loadout.

4. Don't buy havocs. Unless they go to 3w or can blob up to 10 models in a unit i dont see how they could be good. They just wont have any ability to stick around so any points investment in them is only ever going to give you 1 turn of shooting per unit.


For the record I picked the dumbest least disciplined of these options and can field 10... 4 lascannons and 4 missile launchers. I even made them the worst possible legion, World Eaters.

I really do wish World Eaters will get at least 1 stratagem that helps with guns. A throwback to the Teeth of Khorne.

 

I just think of guns as long range chain axes.  Last time I played my World Eaters one of my havocs killed a space marine captain by blowing his head off with a lascannon.  His body turned into a blood geiser.  Khorne loved it and made that havoc into a spawn.  It was great.  

[Squike]

it would be nice for havocs to go to 3 wounds!!!, I think in the current codex they should have been 2W they still feel so weak even with T5.

[battle captain corpus]

Well to be honest I’m a bit of both myself at the moment. I’ve got a pure squad of all missile launchers and another coming of just heavy bolters. I rarely mix up squads so I’d still err with pure squads I guess.

Also though gaming just one facet obviously. Build what you think would rock in your collection, the rules are not a single factor after all. Rules come and go, Chaos is eternal brother!

 

BCC

Edited by battle captain corpus, 16 February 2021 - 11:21 AM.

[MegaVolt87]

I like mixed, x2 LC, x1 ML, x1 AC. I can shoot at vehicles or elite infantry. But having a large IW collection, I could run any combo at this point.

[SanguinaryGuardsman]

I like mixed, x2 LC, x1 ML, x1 AC. I can shoot at vehicles or elite infantry. But having a large IW collection, I could run any combo at this point.

This is the epic plastic crack life style.  

[MegaVolt87]

 

I like mixed, x2 LC, x1 ML, x1 AC. I can shoot at vehicles or elite infantry. But having a large IW collection, I could run any combo at this point.

This is the epic plastic crack life style.  

 

 

#monofactionlyfe  I really should get more photo's up, I just finished x6 plasma guns, got x6 each of flamers + melta in line next.