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9th Ed. Wishlist?


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#326
Brainpsyk

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as we're still wishlisting I'm still hoping for the old rule from the 2nd edition codex to come back. the one where the heavy weapons from an infantry squad could become it's on squads of, then, two models as a fire support team. I'm also thinking with the current moral rules and how I feel about msu armies being a bit better, this could work will for the Infantry squad as an option. Now I just have 8 troopers to run for objectives and what ever but can pack in more heavy stuff to just leave in the back. Almost like having more heavy support slots. Just a thought, I'd love it, almost feels like having my cake and eating it too. 

I was thinking about this, and I think HWTs would benefit from a Look Out Sir! (or equivalent) rule.  Being able to split them off, or just take them as part of an infantry platoon then give them LoS! would be huge.

 

But there would have to be a limitation, as 9th is a trading game.  being able to put a single 21-point ObSec model on a point would be a little OP.  I'd give them a rule like "doesn't count as ObSec unless within unit coherency of an ObSec Infantry Squad"

 

I'd also like to see variations of the lasguns, like the LasCarbine (assault 3), and Long-Las (sniper) from Gaunt's Ghosts.  By default, you'd take the LasCarbine.  But a squad with Long-Las holding a backfield objective could still contribute and be a threat at range.  I'd still like a strat for LasCarbines to cause mortal wounds on 6's, but Long-Las could cause MWs on 6's if the unit doesn't move.

 

Our problem is that our killing is centralized in a couple overpriced units (Tank Commanders and Manticores), while everything else in our army can't kill squat (while still being overpriced...). 

 

Plus we need a reason to stay in HtH combat.  I was watching a battle report, and there was a guard squad in HtH with a genestealer, and couldn't kill the genestealer.  But the player wouldn't fall back and shoot the genestealer.  Assuming 10 guys, with FB!, that's 24 attacks, assuming the sarge has a chainsword.  Normal rapid firing gives 19 shots, and both scenarios are at S3 AP-.  At the very least, if you fall back you can shoot it with another unit if you fail to kill the genestealer with that unit's shooting. 


Edited by Brainpsyk, 26 August 2021 - 03:23 PM.

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#327
Warhead01

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I have no problems with removing ObSec from a fire team.  seems reasonable but would hope they could still be targeted by an ObSec type strat and orders. 
was just looking for a way to make more use of Heavy weapons and single teams would have a fair bit going for them with the loss of their 8 extra ablative wounds. But would that be better or worse? I think I like it for the trade off of staying at BS4+ and a smaller foot print, which I see can also be used for screening. which means the other player has to at least try to kill them, possibly saving something else from those dice rolls. 

I have no real thoughts on "assault 3 las carbines'. It will depend on what the possibly new higher points costs for Infantry squads look like, expecting 8 or 9 PPM if GW wants to pass out all the cool stuff to the lowly guardsmen.
If it gets too weird we'll all do what we always do and only field the good stuff. Scions could end up being completely the better choice for troops stacked with the best killy stuff from the AM. at least for a time.  Just a side thought I guess.

I still want Horse Cavalry back as well. 


Edited by Warhead01, 26 August 2021 - 04:14 PM.

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#328
Brainpsyk

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Funny thing is, I don't think we'll really see a points increase.  Our whole army is ~15% overcosted, and our troops are already over points despite being so ineffective.  Their only value is cheap bodies on a point.  BoLS has a good article on it:  https://www.belloflo...the-lasgun.html.  We could easily up their effectiveness by 50%, and we'd be just as effective as Skitarii Rangers, and be 15 points more (base 40 for 5 rangers, 55 for a Guard Squad).  Now we include an officer for orders, and we'd still be trading down (and we don't have the 6+ inv or the pre-game move...)

 

With GWs new terrain mandate for tournaments, and our very ineffective HtH, Our shooting has to be *lethal* otherwise our codex will be DOA.  

 

On a side not, another option that I thought of, Commisars give Get Back in the Fight for free.  No orders, just by being within 6" you get Ld8 and GBitF, and being able to take them in an infantry platoons leaves orders for improved effectiveness and elite slots for veterans, bullgryns, etc.


Edited by Brainpsyk, 26 August 2021 - 06:03 PM.


#329
Diagramdude

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On my wishlist for Sentinels:

“Reconnaissance Vehicle: This unit may perform actions as if it were an infantry unit.”
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#330
jarms48

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On my wishlist for Sentinels:

“Reconnaissance Vehicle: This unit may perform actions as if it were an infantry unit.”

 

That's a cool idea. I'd love to see that. 

 

Funny thing is, I don't think we'll really see a points increase.  Our whole army is ~15% overcosted, and our troops are already over points despite being so ineffective.  Their only value is cheap bodies on a point.  BoLS has a good article on it:  https://www.belloflo...the-lasgun.html.  We could easily up their effectiveness by 50%, and we'd be just as effective as Skitarii Rangers, and be 15 points more (base 40 for 5 rangers, 55 for a Guard Squad).  Now we include an officer for orders, and we'd still be trading down (and we don't have the 6+ inv or the pre-game move...)

 

With GWs new terrain mandate for tournaments, and our very ineffective HtH, Our shooting has to be *lethal* otherwise our codex will be DOA.  

 

On a side not, another option that I thought of, Commisars give Get Back in the Fight for free.  No orders, just by being within 6" you get Ld8 and GBitF, and being able to take them in an infantry platoons leaves orders for improved effectiveness and elite slots for veterans, bullgryns, etc.

 

I do have a feeling our next codex will have our basic infantry something like this:

- Conscripts 5 points, with less access to buffs. 

 

- Guardsmen 6 points, with either some kind of weapon buff or better access to buffs. Always on aura abilities on Officers for example. 

 

- Veterans 7 points, with better options and customisation than Guardsmen. 

 

- Grenadiers 8 points, from the rumour we'll be getting some kind of Kasrkin re-release. So I expect them to be pushed hard as our "skitarii equivalents". 


Edited by jarms48, 13 September 2021 - 12:07 AM.


#331
Brainpsyk

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I do have a feeling our next codex will have our basic infantry something like this:
- Conscripts 5 points, with less access to buffs. 
 
- Guardsmen 6 points, with either some kind of weapon buff or better access to buffs. Always on aura abilities on Officers for example. 
 
- Veterans 7 points, with better options and customisation than Guardsmen. 
 
- Grenadiers 8 points, from the rumour we'll be getting some kind of Kasrkin re-release. So I expect them to be pushed hard as our "skitarii equivalents".


I don't know. That's making our stuff more even more expensive, and we're already overcosted and ineffective.  Now we've have to be even more effective.  For a baseline (against MEQ):

  • 9 Guardsmen Lasgun shots does 0.5 wounds, 1W under FRFSRF
  • 5 Skitari rangers firing 10 Galvanic rifle shots does 1.6667W(no strats, no doctrines, etc.) (IIRC, @ 40 pts/squad).  

So changing a lasgun to Assault 3 does 1.5 wounds.  That's close enough (re-rolling wounds of 1 from a Lt puts us @1.74 wounds).  But that' just matches the Skitari output, but we're still 50% more points.  Even going to assault 4 does 2W, still short of 2.25W target, but we'd be absolutely unholy against anything T3.

 

So i see our costs going down, not up.  


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#332
domsto

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With the Focus on Elite MSU in 9.Ed and the Fact that GW seems to intend it this way, i am not to optimistic that our basic Infantry will get valid with the new Codex. Even Orcs are pushed into a Elite MSU Build with their new Codex.

The Future for Guard lies in Sions. They already outclass Regular Infantry point for point.


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#333
jarms48

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I do have a feeling our next codex will have our basic infantry something like this:
- Conscripts 5 points, with less access to buffs. 
 
- Guardsmen 6 points, with either some kind of weapon buff or better access to buffs. Always on aura abilities on Officers for example. 
 
- Veterans 7 points, with better options and customisation than Guardsmen. 
 
- Grenadiers 8 points, from the rumour we'll be getting some kind of Kasrkin re-release. So I expect them to be pushed hard as our "skitarii equivalents".


I don't know. That's making our stuff more even more expensive, and we're already overcosted and ineffective.  Now we've have to be even more effective.  For a baseline (against MEQ):

  • 9 Guardsmen Lasgun shots does 0.5 wounds, 1W under FRFSRF
  • 5 Skitari rangers firing 10 Galvanic rifle shots does 1.6667W(no strats, no doctrines, etc.) (IIRC, @ 40 pts/squad).  

So changing a lasgun to Assault 3 does 1.5 wounds.  That's close enough (re-rolling wounds of 1 from a Lt puts us @1.74 wounds).  But that' just matches the Skitari output, but we're still 50% more points.  Even going to assault 4 does 2W, still short of 2.25W target, but we'd be absolutely unholy against anything T3.

 

So i see our costs going down, not up.  

 

 

I do imagine lasguns being made RF2 and FRFSRF being removed. So 40 shots at 12 inch with either RR1 to hit or wound, potentially both if GW are going to make our Company and Platoon Commanders similar to Marine Captains and Lieutenants. 

 

I'm not saying Guardsmen are getting a points increase with their current profile. I see GW buffing them to fit an increased point cost, while also making Conscripts worse. 



#334
Lord Solar Matthius

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Being a fan of "Everybody wins" scenarios, I'd like to be ABLE to take Platoons rather than REQUIRED to take Platoons.

I'd be happy with a lesser officer HQ. Detachments themselves are Platoon equivalents, and the mechanics for combining them already exist. Because they are varied, they are more interesting than Platoons ever were. The only probably with them is that in the current dex, you need either a company level or a named commander to lead each detachment, and it is rarely narratively feasible to have three company level commanders on the same small slice of battlefield.

At the same time, no one should be REQUIRED to fill too many spots with mandatory HQ tax- nothing beyond what the current detachment system already provides.


Our units should all be platoons and squadrons, and our detachments should be companies, battalions and larger units.

I would just make the minimum sized platoon being a representative for heavily attritioned and understrength units and thus is more or less the size of a single squad. That way people can play with their smaller units if they want.

As for narrative play, you can just say your company commander is just a skilled/experienced platoon commander, after all its your narrative. No need to have a separate 'senior' platoon commander or S whatever you imagine.

Further more you can justify multiply company commanders easily. Many countries especially those based on the ussr, but also many countries in the past would give jobs to companies what modern Western armies give to platoons. The Soviets almost never had less than 3 companies in the same stretch of frontline during the cold War that might be occupied by 1 or 2 Nato platoons. And since the imperium has mutch the same mindset as the Soviets in the cold War or 1870s prussia (2 examples of such a system) there is no reason they wouldn't do the same. In other words you seem to think the guard is only modern NATO-America in space when it also can be like soviet-prussia in space. Hell if we go to pre-boer war British you could justify haveing an entire regiment on the table (due to battalion masse formations)

All this said I wouldn't be apposed to lesser officer in hq slot even though I would prefure a higher officer, my personal narrative can always change their ranks and role.

#335
Brainpsyk

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I like the idea of being able to take units individually not just in platoons/squadrons, but the platoons/squadrons should be the norm.  There have been plenty of cases where units have been detached (or isolated due to combat) so were temporarily (re)assigned to a new command struture.  Plus, it gives us a little more flexibility in filling our our army lists.
 
While the Imperium's mindset is similar to the soviets, individual armies can vary greatly.  DKoK really doesn't care about their units, while Cadians do.  So really, the AM operate closer to WWII armies than we give them credit for.  We have to remember that LRBTs all come with radios, laser rangefinders, etc., but these things aren't represented in the games.  The whole Vox Caster things annoys me, since most infantry squads have already have radios, while a vox caster is closer to a bullhorn.  huh.png
 
Along those lines, I was thinking Valhallans need a special rule: 
 

Mount Up! 

Increase the transport capacity of all Tanks by 10 (super-heavies by 20).  However, while transporting more than the original capacity the vehicle cannot shoot during the shooting phase or fire overwatch


This just reminds me of the russians in WWII mounting up on the tanks to plow thru the snow.


Edited by Brainpsyk, 16 September 2021 - 06:23 PM.


#336
Inquisitor_Lensoven

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I have a new wishlist item.

A fairly small one, but I’d like more turret options for the chimera.

I’d like to add MM, lascannon, and go back to dual heavy bolter turret.
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#337
Diagramdude

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New turret options would require new plastic kits for the Chimera. They won’t release rules that can only be represented by kitbash. That said, if they do come out with new guard plastic then I’m sure the rules will heavily favor their new stuff.

#338
Inquisitor_Lensoven

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New turret options would require new plastic kits for the Chimera. They won’t release rules that can only be represented by kitbash. That said, if they do come out with new guard plastic then I’m sure the rules will heavily favor their new stuff.

new kits with new options means more money for them.

Hell they don’t even need to make a whole new kit, they can sell it as an upgrade sprue.

Besides they used to have the twin heavy bolter option so that one would be cheap and easy to bring back.

Edited by Inquisitor_Lensoven, 08 October 2021 - 04:05 AM.

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#339
Brainpsyk

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Got an idea for IG Secondaries. 

 

If we use the "Optimum Range Bracket" idea (Bonus -1 AP on Indirect weapons over 18", heavy weapons at 9-24 and assault/RF at <= 9"), then we can have this secondary:
 

Defense In Depth  (Purge the Enemy)

Gain 3 VPs when you destroy an enemy unit with a weapon in it's Optimum Range Bracket.  Range Bracket(s) are determined for each firing unit (not model!) independently when the firing unit chooses the target of it's shooting attack(s) in the shooting phase or while firing overwatch, and the enemy unit is considered to be in all the determined Range Brackets for the duration of the shooting unit's firing.

 

 

This is very similar to other Secondaries, but also provides us a challenge, as if we fail to kill properly kill a unit or it gets into HTH we lose out on those VPs.  So it enourages strategic play, as well as shenanigans where if you get too close, I move away from you with heavy weapons to weaken you while lasguns finish you off.

 

 

Got this idea from a documentary on the battle of Fallujah, where the US infantry snuck a squad into enemy territory and their job was to just hold that point while the main force attacked.

 

 

Strongpoint (Battlefield Supremacy)

 

During Deployment, secretly write down an Objective Marker in No-Man's land or the enemy's Deployment zone.  At the end of your turn score 3 VPs if you control that objective marker and it is closer to your deployment zone than the enemy's deployment zone, 4 VPs if the marker is equidistant from the deployment zones, 5 if the marker is closer to the enemy's deployment zone, and 8 if the marker is in the enemy deployment zone (to a max of 15 for the game). 

 

The selected Objective Marker is revealed to you opponent during the command phase of your 1st turn.

 

 

 

 

 

I'm also thinking that if we separate out HWTs from the infantry squads, that opens up Investigate Sites for a possible secondary, as we'll only need to commit a small unit to the center of the battlefield.  Even Engage On All Fronts becomes viable, as we can just have 1 unit off in the corner hiding & scoring (and screening, a space wolves cyberwolf trick).

 

 



#340
brother_b

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I’ve got two packs of Krieg, a hand full of tanks, and some abhumans and other random models to possibly start an AM/IG army. I’ve got a bunch of Cadian stuff but I’ve been taken by the Krieg models and likely will use those.

I see things like tank commanders being able to give themselves orders going away, and I’m guessing orders will only be available for CORE units. This is just based on how the previous codex releases have been. As such I want to build my army around string CORE options like troops and tanks.

I’d like a mix of armor and infantry as that’s what I picture a guard army being.

My wishlist is that all army options are viable and there is no single most powerful build. That’s really all I’m hoping for.

Well that and making commissars relevant.

Edited by brother_b, 11 October 2021 - 10:45 PM.

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#341
Inquisitor_Lensoven

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Also I’d kinda like a supplements for Catachan, tallarn, and valhallan at least.

As well as differently themed CP boxes

A recon box
Sr officer
Jr officer
Command squad
1 sentinel
2 armored fist squads

Armored
Leman Russ
2 Armored fist squads
Heavy weapons team
Artillery tank

Trench
Sr officer
Jr officer
2-3 heavy weapons teams
2 infantry squads
Artillery tank

Or something similar.
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#342
Inquisitor_Lensoven

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I’ve got two packs of Krieg, a hand full of tanks, and some abhumans and other random models to possibly start an AM/IG army. I’ve got a bunch of Cadian stuff but I’ve been taken by the Krieg models and likely will use those.

I see things like tank commanders being able to give themselves orders going away, and I’m guessing orders will only be available for CORE units. This is just based on how the previous codex releases have been. As such I want to build my army around string CORE options like troops and tanks.

I’d like a mix of armor and infantry as that’s what I picture a guard army being.

My wishlist is that all army options are viable and there is no single most powerful build. That’s really all I’m hoping for.

Well that and making commissars relevant.

good luck getting a codex with multiple competitively viable army builds in it lol.
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#343
sairence

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I mean...in fairness, most of the new Codexes do offer various builds and options that are at least viable, often multiple that can really punch up and be competitivr. At this stage it's pretty safe to say that AdMech and DE were the exceptions in how crushingly overpowered they are. Even with those you have a variety of builds. But none of the other new Codexes are be stuck to one build. DG, GK, Sisters, the new Templars all look like they can work in various ways and in general with pretty good internal balance. Necrons might be the one a bit left behind, but pretty all other Codexes that have come out in 9th are viable.
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#344
Brainpsyk

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Its possible to create a guard codex with multiple builds, GW just has to take the current regiment rules to the next level:
 
- cadians re-roll 1s by default, Take Aim! gives full re-rolls
- catachans: S4 infantry, opponents get no benefits of cover.  Tanks with dozer blades and infantry count difficult terrain as clear terrain
- ASL - while within 6" of a vehicle they ignore -1 to hit on heavy weapons moving and -1 to hit on assault weapons when advancing, army ignores AP-1.
- vostroyans add 6" range to all ranged weapons (and "optimum range bracket" if used)
- mordians:  (if an infantry unit can do 2 mortal wounds), up that to 3 MW if all models in a unit is in base contact with at least 1 other model, 4MW if all models are in base contact with 2 other models.  Vehicles add 1 to hit and overwatch when within 3" of another Mordian vehicle.
- tallarn: units that advance do not count as having advanced.
 
 
I was toying with another idea for a secondary:

Emperor's Shield Warpcraft

Psychic action, WC:4 (+2 difficulty for each attempt after the 1st on the same turn)
Complete this action while within 3" of an objective. Score 4 VPs the first time this action is completed, 5 (total 9) the 2nd time, and 6 (total 15) the 3rd time this action is completed.  The 4th time this action is completed the objectives that had this action completed on it turn off enemy ObSec while within 3" of it.

 

It's really hard to complete, but rewards appropriately. 

 

Where I thought this would be cool is if we drop Wyrdvane Psykers as a unit, and instead add 1-3 of them to Primaris Psykers and Astropaths, each Wyrdvane adds +1 to the psychic/deny test (but the unit retains Look Out Sir!).  In the case of double 1s, it's possible for the psychic power to go off and still suffer the d3 MWs.  If the Primaris/Astropath is killed before the Wyrdvanes in the unit, the Wyrdvanes can attempt psychic powers & actions, but only roll 1d6 for the psychic/deny test, +1 for each Wyrdvane after the 1st.


Edited by Brainpsyk, 17 October 2021 - 05:06 PM.


#345
mertbl

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I think we will see a lot of add on non force org slot stuff.
Bring a primaris psyker, tag on a squad of wrydvanes.
Bring a CC or PC and get a command squad without a slot.
Maybe tag on a HWT or SWS per infantry squad.

#346
jarms48

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Okay, I've been getting some bad feelings about Guard and Scions now. I have a feeling they're going to pull Scions out of the Guard codex and make them their own faction again. 

 

The PA book and Kasrkin rumours kind of confirm this. Unless there's some serious culling of regiments, how are they going to fit at least 6 named Guard regiments and 6 named Scion regiments into the codex? As well as custom regiments for Guard? 

 

So, what do I think is going to happen? 

- GW will pull the 4 Militarum Tempestus datasheets out of the Guard codex.

 

- Instead we'll get the new Kasrkin kit as a replacement. They'll be 7 or 8 points per model. Will be able to use Regiment traits and receive orders from Regiment characters. They'll also have some kind of Grav-Chute upgrade for 2 points per model giving them deepstrike. 

 

- Later down the line they'll release the Militarum Tempestus along with their own codex. With the PA named Scion regiments and new rules to make your own custom Scion regiments. This will probably be a major release like Necrons at the beginning of 9th. They'll probably get some of their own named characters, more vehicles. I've been thinking they'll reintroduce Drop Sentinels and Tauros back as Scion units. As well as more specialised Scions, like infiltrators/snipers, aerial dropped scion heavy weapon squads, etc. 



#347
sairence

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Very much doubt that. Scions were their own mini-codex previously and were folded in. I don't expect a big release wave for Guard. I know the rumours say a new tank, but beyond that I just don't see much happening.

Also, any new release is going to be brand new stuff. There is no way GW is going to rerelease a previous design that people still have lying around if they can replace it with something totally new that people have to buy.

At worst, it'll be a supplement like SMs have. Hope not though and I'd be surprised.

On another note, we should keep an eye on the statlines for Brood Brothers datahseets in the GSc codex next month.

Edited by sairence, 01 November 2021 - 10:56 AM.

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#348
jarms48

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Very much doubt that. Scions were their own mini-codex previously and were folded in. I don't expect a big release wave for Guard. I know the rumours say a new tank, but beyond that I just don't see much happening.

Also, any new release is going to be brand new stuff. There is no way GW is going to rerelease a previous design that people still have lying around if they can replace it with something totally new that people have to buy.

At worst, it'll be a supplement like SMs have. Hope not though and I'd be surprised.

On another note, we should keep an eye on the statlines for Brood Brothers datahseets in the GSc codex next month.

 

Think of it this way. Now Scions have 6 unique regiments. Each with their own unique WT, relics, and stratagems. The PA book gave them an identity and much needed flavour. 

 

The rumours of new Kasrkins suggests they'll be Guards new premium troop choice instead of Scions. 



#349
Red_Shift

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I think we will get a Krieg themed release with a new tank, heavy weapons team, commander and standard bearer. I also think we will then see the new tank being made ott rather than fix the underlying issues.

 

What I’d like to see is a way to buff up infantry squads to make them worth taking. I’m not quite sure how to make that happen but maybe add bonus shots for the more squads you have firing at the same target to represent a platoon just hosing down an enemy formation with massed lasrifle fire.

 

id also like the ancient basilisk kit to be redone with an option for the bombard and some crew models. It looks ridiculous with the empty gunners platform at the back IMO.


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Warhead01

Warhead01

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I wasn't sure I liked the idea of bringing platoons back but having had lots of time to think about it I would like to see that at an option, though maybe not required. 
I'm really wondering just what GW will do to bring Am up to par for 9th. Looking at Sisters and SM's, AM needs something I'm sure. Still haven't played any 9th with mine but I can see which way things look to be going. Seeing a post where a competitive AM list was just as many models as they could field, and that does sound good to me but maybe not everyone. 
Really hoping for a bomber/fighter bomber in plastic. and more static artillery.  The thing is that when I look at 9th now I don't see "warhammer 40K" any more. I see a game where a player has to build a list to try to score points in 4 different categories, not fight a battle.  It's sad but leads me to hope we get something good for that and actually having a war. 

Maybe smoke grenades for infantry units, they can deploy them after moving for a -1 to hit when they are the target of shooting. 
And an artillery spotting rule that some how gives artillery +1 to hit rolls when working with a spotter unit but not sure if that should be a strat or a rule. 
 


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