9th Ed. Wishlist?

[Inquisitor_Lensoven]

Personally I think the average guardsmen is so bad individually they either need a large points reduction, or to be pointed as a whole squad, and then points for gear.

 

And yes a return to the platoon mechanic.

Between these two things massed infantry formations should be possible at all levels of play, allowing the guard to return to a true hoard army if the player wants that.

 

However based on my experience the platoon mechanic set a fairly high bar for entry for kids, so an alternative like the veteran squad or even an armored fist squad is necessary.

 

At work no codex at hand can anyone tell me what a JO, 2 infantry squads with Flamer and cheapest hvy weapon costs points wise?

 

I'd leave the command platoon in the pages of history though.

 

But the platoons might not work too well if table sizes stay small.

Edited April 30, 2021 by Inquisitor_Lensoven

[OldWherewolf]

My idea was to take squads either as Platoons, or as individual choices.  That gives us a lot of flexibility, especially if we want to take Vanguard/Spearhead, etc. detachments, as we can take enough troops to still have worthwhile screens.  It also takes care of a number of situations, like getting started, but also idiot tournament rules like "having to max out troops".

 

The more I think about it, the more I like incorporating officers into Force Org slots:

• LTs into infantry squads to provide orders and (like other codexes) re-rolls of 1's to wound for any CORE unit within 6" 
• Master of Ordnance in a artillery squadron to provide re-rolls of 1's to wound for Basilisks/Wyverns/Manticores within 6"
• Tank Commanders in tank squadrons to provide orders and Obsec

Alternatively, you can take the units individually and not get the added bonus, but pay a tax and get a bonus.

 

So, then we make these units CORE:

• vets,IG squads, conscripts, scions, LRBTs, ogryns/bullgryns, hellhounds

 

I think this fits in with Army Doctrines as well:

• Cadians: re-roll 1s to hit.  "Take Aim" re-rolls all failed hits
• Catachans: re-roll the dice when making a random number of attacks, including infantry and artillery
• Valhallans: halve the number of models that flee, vehicles are double wounds for bracketing (LRBTs have to get down to 4 wounds before bracketing)
• Vostroyans: add 6" to all weapons with a range of 24" - this one sucks given the smaller tables, but add 6" to all weapons and this becomes very interesting (18" flamers anyone?!?!)
• etc.

I'm also toying with an idea for Hydras (it's not quite right, but it's a start):

 

"Eyes on the Skies" - Use this strat during your opponent's movement phase immediately after an enemy unit with FLY has completed it's move. A Hydra unit may make a normal shooting attack against that unit if it moved within LOS during its move.  The Hydra's player determines which point along the move is used for LOS and cover purposes. If the targeted unit is destroyed, it is considered destroyed at the point where it completed its move.  Costs 1 CP per tank firing. 

 

it's in the same vein as a overwatch, except now there is a threat to all those jump pack troops, gargoyles, Raiders (), etc. trying to get into position.  Now, rather than going over terrain, we make them go around.  16 autocannon shots from a squadron is nothing to scoff at, especially with a +1 to hit against flyers.  I think if we can add an Officer of the Fleet to a Hydra squadon to provide re-rolls of a 1 and strafing runs, I think you start to have a unit that is worth taking.  Now think of it against Death Company charging across the battlefield turn 1, or denying a raider pre-charging a unit so the hard-hitter behind it won't take overwatch, fire-and-fade units, and plasma inceptors.  The problem is 4 autocannons still suck in comparison to 3 heavy bolters against everything but T6.

 

I think this also starts to move us in a direction where we'll do damage outside of 1 phase of the game, but more than that, we start to set the tempo of the game. 

• Want to sit in your backfield, we've got artillery.
• Want to fly at us and we'll interrupt you.
• You have to engage us on the mid-board objectives or we'll hold them with cheap ObSec
•  

So opponents have to get to us quickly and engage us in melee where we're weakest, or endure some brutal rounds of shooting.  Oh, and did I mention that we have a LOT of screening units? 

[sairence]

Hydras should definitely get better in general...so far anti air had their special rule adjusted to +1 hit against aircraft and normal against anything else. Which fits much better than the arbitrary penalty so far.

 

Should give it a nice boost regardless of what else comes.

[War Angel]

feel like ogryns and bulgryns shouldn’t be core due to

Them being auxiliary. Same for ratlings and wydvane

 

Edit spelling

Edited May 3, 2021 by War Angel

[librisrouge]

feel like ogryns and bulgryns shouldn’t be core due to

Them being auxiliary. Same for ratlings and wydvane

 

Edit spelling

Agreed. However, I would dig a custom regiment option or a special character that unlocks them.

[War Angel]

 

feel like ogryns and bulgryns shouldn’t be core due to

Them being auxiliary. Same for ratlings and wydvane

Edit spelling

 

Agreed. However, I would dig a custom regiment option or a special character that unlocks them.

Hmmm, I’d be more inclined on a bulgryn character or something. It’s still them being an addition to the regiment, but they’ve got some kind of... idk a commissar type guy that over looks them? Not 100% sure.

[jarms48]

When it comes to core units in the future Guard codex I just want it to be incredibly simple.

 

All regiment non-character and non-titanic vehicles are core. So commissars, priests, auxilia, psykers, scions, baneblades, officers, etc don’t get core.

 

For an MT detachment all tempestus regiment non-character units are core.

[USNCenturion]

I’m hoping they remove the CP penalty for taking a separate spearhead detachment, so we can do proper armored companies to support our infantry.

 

This, coupled with maybe having platoons back as a troop choice will go a long ways to addressing our army construction. Being able to bring heavy weapon teams attached to command squads and platoons used to leave appropriate room for tanks in our heavy slots.

 

One other thing I’m selfishly hopeful for is removing special weapon options from basic guard squads. <ducks thrown fruit> My reasoning is a basic guardsman probably wouldn’t be trusted with a plasma or melts gun, the humble flamer and grenade launcher would see more use, and it would put greater emphasis on bringing veterans and storm troopers for specialized support. And special weapon teams would have more use too lol.

[Shamansky]

One other thing I’m selfishly hopeful for is removing special weapon options from basic guard squads. <ducks thrown fruit> My reasoning is a basic guardsman probably wouldn’t be trusted with a plasma or melts gun, the humble flamer and grenade launcher would see more use, and it would put greater emphasis on bringing veterans and storm troopers for specialized support. And special weapon teams would have more use too lol.

I do not agree with this. The option to take all special weapons is good. If you want untrained guardsmen take those conscripts. There are many worlds with tech level that would provide enough educated troopers to operate plasmaguns. The idea of making one unit worse to make other units looking better iwithout making those other units actually better is unconstructive

Edited May 3, 2021 by Shamansky

[jarms48]

 

I do not agree with this. The option to take all special weapons is good. If you want untrained guardsmen take those conscripts. There are many worlds with tech level that would provide enough educated troopers to operate plasma guns. The idea of making one unit worse to make other units looking better without making those other units actually better is unconstructive

 

 

I agree. It'd be silly to remove the option just because other units are underperforming. That just means those underperforming units need to have their points dropped, their rules adjusted, or rules added. 

 

The Special Weapon Squad for example. Just make it more unique, actually specialised. Brainstorming here:

- Give them krak grenades. Nothing massive, but it's lore friendly these guys are specialists and would be given more specialist equipment. 

- Let the lasgun guys take shotguns. They're not going to first rank anyway, so being able to have a whole squad of assault weapons opens up options as well. 

- Give one of the lasgun guys the option for a voxcaster. Bringing them in from strategic reserves with voxes might mean they're still in order range without risking an officer having to go with them. 

- Maybe the option to swap a Guardsman for a Sergeant. Again, they're not a squad you'll first rank with so the extra Ld or plasma pistol on top of 3 plasma guns might be useful. 

- Bring back democharges. It's fine that they're grenades now. 5 points for one of the lasgun armed Guardsman to throw an AP-3 battle cannon in addition to the rest of the squads shooting seems pretty nice. 

- Give them the Melta Bomb and Smokescreen keywords and add their matching stratagems that the Marines get. I'd also give both of these to Scions, Heavy Weapon Squads could perhaps also get the Smokescreen keyword but no Melta Bombs. 

- Maybe the option for up to 4 additional Guardsmen, and 1 more special weapon if the squad equals 10 models. 

- Bring back Platoons and make them Troops. Which gives them Obsec over Command Squads. I've said before, I'll say it again. I think Militarum Tempestus Scions should be Elites in an AM detactment and Troops in a pure MT detachment. Which again, gives Special Weapon Squads something over Scions.

 

Not everything here has to be done, but it's some ideas on how to make a currently very niche unit better. 

[War Angel]

Put them in platoons, give them an option, “assistant gunner- for every model equipped with a lasgun in this squad that doesn’t fire this turn, another model gets rerolls to hit”

[4CIN87]

I'd like to see command squads act a bit more like command squads instead of just glorified special weapons teams.

 

Let make the equipment they can take worth taking.

I would give the banners +1 order to any officers within 6 inches 

Medic a 6 inch FNP bubble.

Mater Vox with unlimited range for officers within 3 Inches.

[domsto]

I'd like to see command squads act a bit more like command squads instead of just glorified special weapons teams.

 

Let make the equipment they can take worth taking.

I would give the banners +1 order to any officers within 6 inches 

Medic a 6 inch FNP bubble.

Mater Vox with unlimited range for officers within 3 Inches.

+1 Order from the Banner seems a bit off, i always saw the Banner as Inspiring. So maybe a (useful)Leadership buff or some rerolls to Moral

I like the Medic Idea. Wasn't that how they used to work in 7.Ed?

The Vox change seems good, so it would maybe be worth the 10points for the Vox

 

Maybe give the Command Squad some sort of Body Guard Rule.

[Shamansky]

I think something like Vox network would be nice. Let's say every vox caster is a relay and has 18 inches 'comm-bubble'. Any AM-infantry unit can take and every vehicle has Vox caster installed. That would make unlimited range for Vox casters explainable and would require paying points for the ability to issue orders all over the table.

[jarms48]

 

I'd like to see command squads act a bit more like command squads instead of just glorified special weapons teams.

 

Let make the equipment they can take worth taking.

I would give the banners +1 order to any officers within 6 inches 

Medic a 6 inch FNP bubble.

Mater Vox with unlimited range for officers within 3 Inches.

+1 Order from the Banner seems a bit off, i always saw the Banner as Inspiring. So maybe a (useful)Leadership buff or some rerolls to Moral

I like the Medic Idea. Wasn't that how they used to work in 7.Ed?

The Vox change seems good, so it would maybe be worth the 10points for the Vox

 

Maybe give the Command Squad some sort of Body Guard Rule.

 

There's so many things we can do with banners:

- +1 Ld

- Reroll Morale

- +1 Attack

- +1 Strength

- Reroll 1's to Hit in Melee and/or Shooting

- +1 to Hit in Melee and/or Shooting (for a specific unit)

- 4+ a dead model can fight before being removed

- Exploding 6's against nearest unit, or against units in melee

 

I want to avoid autopassing Morale as that's what a Commissar should be for. I also want to avoid things like a 6++ or 6+++ as a medi-pack should have that kind of aura.

[Tokugawa]

WHC preview confirmed that the new sisters predator has option of "Battlecannon" on its turret. So the final profile of 9th battlecannon would be decided soon.

[jarms48]

WHC preview confirmed that the new sisters predator has option of "Battlecannon" on its turret. So the final profile of 9th battlecannon would be decided soon.

So hoping it's just a simple flat damage 3, and nothing else changing.

 

Edit:

I've gone crazy again, and have done up rules for armoured cars. Here's some examples:

 

Light Armoured Car (Something like a Daimler): 45 Points.

M14, WS6+, BS4+, S5, T6, W6, A1, Ld7, Sv3+

 

Unit Composition: 1 - 3 Light Armoured Cars

Equipment: Each model is equipped with a multi-laser and heavy stubber.

Wargear Options:

- Any model may replace its multi-laser with an autocannon, or lascannon.

- Any model may take a hunter-killer missile.

- Any model may take a storm bolter, or a heavy stubber.

Abilities:

- Explodes

- Smoke Launchers

 

Medium Armoured Car (Something like a Staghound): 60 Points.

M14, WS6+, BS4+, S5, T6, W8, A2, Ld7, Sv3+

 

Unit Composition: 1 - 3 Medium Armoured Cars

Equipment: Each model is equipped with an autocannon and two heavy stubbers.

Wargear Options:

- Any model may replace its autocannon with a lascannon, or taurox battle cannon.

- Any model may replace its hull heavy stubber with a heavy bolter, or heavy flamer.

- Any model may take a hunter-killer missile.

- Any model may take a storm bolter, or a heavy stubber.

Abilities:

- Explodes

- Smoke Launchers

 

Heavy Armoured Car (Something like a Boarhound): 75 Points.

M14, WS6+, BS4+/5+/6+, S5, T6, W10/5/2, A3/D3/1, Ld7, Sv3+

 

Unit Composition: 1 - 3 Heavy Armoured Cars

Equipment: Each model is equipped with twin autocannons and a heavy stubber.

Wargear Options:

- Any model may replace its twin autocannons with twin lascannons, taurox gatling cannon, or conqueror cannon and a heavy stubber.

- Any model may replace its hull heavy stubber with a heavy bolter, or heavy flamer.

- Any model may take a hunter-killer missile.

- Any model may take a storm bolter, or a heavy stubber.

Abilities:

- Explodes

- Smoke Launchers

- Vehicle Squadron

Edited May 6, 2021 by jarms48

[War Angel]

Was looking at this thread and thinking of solutions to the las gun. Then I stopped. I don’t think there’s a way to fix it. We’re able to take so many of them, any bonus to them trickles down the line and becomes a massive boost. The weapon works great against T3 models, and isn’t too bad against T4-5 with lower AS (well, higher.... worse) give it an extra shot? Now I’ve got 200 extra shots on turn one. Those new sisters would weep. Even reducing the points back to 5 points per model, now I have an extra squad and some weapons. Plus they just increased those points. Wouldn’t make much sense

 

I think the solution is what’s around the guardsmen. Fixing orders, fixing the medic, fixing the platoons. A guardsman and his lasgun are meant to hold the line, and do fantastic against the average foe, but the heavier boys, they need the attention of some heavier guns.

[Shamansky]

 

WHC preview confirmed that the new sisters predator has option of "Battlecannon" on its turret. So the final profile of 9th battlecannon would be decided soon.

So hoping it's just a simple flat damage 3, and nothing else changing.

 

Edit:

I've gone crazy again, and have done up rules for armoured cars. Here's some examples:

 

Light Armoured Car (Something like a Daimler): 45 Points.

M14, WS6+, BS4+, S5, T6, W6, A1, Ld7, Sv3+

 

Unit Composition: 1 - 3 Light Armoured Cars

Equipment: Each model is equipped with a multi-laser and heavy stubber.

Wargear Options:

- Any model may replace its multi-laser with an autocannon, or lascannon.

- Any model may take a hunter-killer missile.

- Any model may take a storm bolter, or a heavy stubber.

Abilities:

- Explodes

- Smoke Launchers

 

 

They really made me mad by legend-dumping Tauros AV and Tauros Venator

[domsto]

Even reducing the points back to 5 points per model, now I have an extra squad and some weapons. Plus they just increased those points. Wouldn’t make much sense

 

That they increased the Guardsmen to 5,5 PpM didn made any Sense.

At the current Statline a Guardsmen isn't worth 5,5 Points, heck he isn't even worth 5.

I can't shacke the Feeling that we already pay for a buff the Guardsmen gets when the Codex drops.

[War Angel]

 

Even reducing the points back to 5 points per model, now I have an extra squad and some weapons. Plus they just increased those points. Wouldn’t make much sense

That they increased the Guardsmen to 5,5 PpM didn made any Sense.

At the current Statline a Guardsmen isn't worth 5,5 Points, heck he isn't even worth 5.

I can't shacke the Feeling that we already pay for a buff the Guardsmen gets when the Codex drops.

Pure infantry is pretty strong, dropping guardsmen down to 4 points again would be over powered for those of us who only use infantry. I could get another 5 squads with that. And I’m already doing good without those squads. Not even grots or guants cost less than 5, and we shoot them off the board.

[domsto]

 

Pure infantry is pretty strong, dropping guardsmen down to 4 points again would be over powered for those of us who only use infantry. I could get another 5 squads with that. And I’m already doing good without those squads. Not even grots or guants cost less than 5, and we shoot them off the board.

 

Infantry Squads are just walking VP at this Point, so i dont see how they could become OP when Priced reasonably.

Also comparing one overcosted Unit to another Overcosted Units isn really a good argument. For me it highlights one of the core Problems with 9.Ed. Namely that Horde like Units got the short end of the Stick, the core Rules heavy favor Elite/MSU and they are almost all overcosted across the Board.

Yes i know GW raised the Points for all Armys, but why did a Guardsmen got 25%(or 37,5% if you factor in the new Points) more expansive while a Primaris Intercessor only got 11% more expansive. If Gw wanted to make it balanced the Intersseor should have gone up to 23ppm

[War Angel]

Sure, they give 15 secondary points. And then your opponent never scores more than 20 on primary. That’s a fair trade.

[Shamansky]

 

Yes i know GW raised the Points for all Armys, but why did a Guardsmen got 25%(or 37,5% if you factor in the new Points) more expansive while a Primaris Intercessor only got 11% more expansive. If Gw wanted to make it balanced the Intersseor should have gone up to 23ppm

 

 

Because that's how geedubs sell models. 

[jarms48]

 

 

Even reducing the points back to 5 points per model, now I have an extra squad and some weapons. Plus they just increased those points. Wouldn’t make much sense

That they increased the Guardsmen to 5,5 PpM didn made any Sense.

At the current Statline a Guardsmen isn't worth 5,5 Points, heck he isn't even worth 5.

I can't shacke the Feeling that we already pay for a buff the Guardsmen gets when the Codex drops.

Pure infantry is pretty strong, dropping guardsmen down to 4 points again would be over powered for those of us who only use infantry. I could get another 5 squads with that. And I’m already doing good without those squads. Not even grots or guants cost less than 5, and we shoot them off the board.

I really want someone to test pure Scion infantry. With 3 battalions you could have 3 Primes, 3 Lord Commissars, 18 (180 models) Scion Squads, 18 free plasma pistols, and 12 plasma guns for 1995 points.

 

With COVID it’s been hard for me to get a game. Really want to see how they do. It just seems so much better than pure infantry Guard.