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9th Ed. Wishlist?


Lord Robertsen

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After my last game against the AM I hope tank commanders are either moved to a HQ slot or in some way limited in number. I feel it is a little reticules to have 3 tank commanders in a list with not other tanks for them to command. Hopefully there is a tank tax added in the next codex. 

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Tank Commanders are HQs...they used to be squadrons back in 7th.

 

But honestly, they should just be called Veteran tanks as they are generally just buffing themselves. To be proper command units they'd need to be able to buff more than just one unit.

D'OH! 

 

I was misremembering my opponents army he had an astropath but the model was a primaris psyker. I haven't even considered fielding a tank commander for some reason thought they were elites. I guess I should rephrase my previous post to say something more like I hope they enforce theme with mandatory tanks to unlock a tank commander.  

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Tank Commanders are HQs...they used to be squadrons back in 7th.

 

But honestly, they should just be called Veteran tanks as they are generally just buffing themselves. To be proper command units they'd need to be able to buff more than just one unit.

 

Honestly, I really do see GW making Orders not effect officers. Meaning Tank Commanders will be forced to use their orders on other vehicles.  

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Sadly Tank Commanders are the only way you can field a Leman Russ these days...

The normal Leman Russ isn't worth his points now.

 

but as sairence said. The Tank Commander should be renamed Veteran Leman Russ as he isn't really a commander.

or maybe buff the Command ability of the TC. let him give 2 Orders and extend the Range of the Order.

I mean 6"? Is he opening his Hatch and screams at another Tank?

Tanks should have buildin Vox and therefore should have 18" Range for Orders

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Sure, but the Leman Russ is a fat, lumbering, kinda siege-y tank. I'd not picture it as a thing that would readily shoot at zooming flyers :smile.:

where are you getting that from?

The exterminator in particular is noted as being a faster model used for AA work...

Right here:

 

Imperial Armour 1, 2nd edition, page 16-17:

"The Leman Russ is not a sophisticated vehicle and contains little in the way of advanced targeting or control systems"

"Although it is a slow, lumbering vehicle..."

"In particular by surrendering its anti-tank effectiveness for increased anti-infantry firewpoer, the Exterminator..."

"its rapid firing weapons, for example, are often used as a stopgap measure for anti-aircraft defence. Whilst lacking the elevation and advanced targeters to fulfil this role effectively, when needed tank commanders have used Exterminators to throw up a wall of fire against enemy air attacks with some success. Most commanders would still look to Hydras..."

 

My fault was apparently in mentioning that the Vanquisher anti-tank option might not be everyones first choice for anti-air, and then a horde of "actually" people came running in a huff.

not "actually"

 

You simply said leman Russ tanks were lumbering seige-y tanks, that couldn't shoot at fliers...you were being corrected for either being wrong or over generalizing.

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not "actually"

 

You simply said leman Russ tanks were lumbering seige-y tanks, that couldn't shoot at fliers...you were being corrected for either being wrong or over generalizing.

 

 

The Leman Russ is a lumbering siege tank which isn't designed to shoot flyers. While it can shoot at flyers in a pinch it's certainly not proficient at it. 

 

Just read bristlybadger's source, which I have as well, the keywords being "with some success." Implying that while can work if required is nowhere near effective as the dedicated option. The Exterminator is not an AA vehicle. It is a tank that's designed to kill infantry, that can put a wall of lead in the sky if needed. The Exterminator is about as good at shooting down aircraft as the Space Marine Predator would be.

 

Ironically, at least in the lore, the Punisher variant would actually be better at tactical AA defence. Just like a modern day Phalanx CIWS.

 

Here's some more sources on the Russ:

 

"While slow in comparison to other Guard vehicles and lacking in advanced technology, its ruggedness and reliability are the tank's defining attribute."

 

"A minimum of four crew are required to operate the Leman Russ, with two more needed to man the sponson weapons if mounted, though they must do so without comfort in a cramped, hot and noisy environment."

Edited by jarms48
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They should have two levels of Tank Commander, both Senior and Junior, and maybe make the difference the number of orders or the distance he can order them. Maybe make the commissariat tank a unit in and of itself. Also I’d like to see a stratagem where a tank commander can choose to issue orders to infantry instead of tanks at deployment, representing a member of high command taking up residency in a Russ to issue orders to his troops from the frontline.

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They should have two levels of Tank Commander, both Senior and Junior, and maybe make the difference the number of orders or the distance he can order them. Maybe make the commissariat tank a unit in and of itself. Also I’d like to see a stratagem where a tank commander can choose to issue orders to infantry instead of tanks at deployment, representing a member of high command taking up residency in a Russ to issue orders to his troops from the frontline.

Wouldn't a Infantry Commander rather ride in a Chimera?

Lorewise Tank Regiments and Infantry Regiments are two diffrent units with no overlapping Authoritys

 

But the incruduction of a Command Leman Russ and a Command Chimera could serve well for a Tank/mechanized Armylist

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Chimeras should act like Vox-Casters and let orders be issued from inside, without having to use any strats every turn. That's all the command element you need from them really.

 

And tank orders should either work in a radius or there should be more than onne that can be given out. Or something along the lines of "can issue one order to another Leman Russ, but is always affected by his own order as well".

 

Tank orders in general need to be a bit more creative and varied.

Edited by sairence
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They should have two levels of Tank Commander, both Senior and Junior, and maybe make the difference the number of orders or the distance he can order them. Maybe make the commissariat tank a unit in and of itself. Also I’d like to see a stratagem where a tank commander can choose to issue orders to infantry instead of tanks at deployment, representing a member of high command taking up residency in a Russ to issue orders to his troops from the frontline.

Wouldn't a Infantry Commander rather ride in a Chimera?

Lorewise Tank Regiments and Infantry Regiments are two diffrent units with no overlapping Authoritys

 

But the incruduction of a Command Leman Russ and a Command Chimera could serve well for a Tank/mechanized Armylist

 

That’s a really good point actually, an infantry officer WOULD command from a Chimera rather than a Russ. There should be some way of making a Chimera better at being a command vehicle than what we already have. When I was thinking of the Russ having the ability to order infantry, I was more thinking of a very high ranking Imperial Guard officer, but in such a case, after thinking about it In greater thought, they’d still retain their tank orders too. I’m basically thinking Lord Castellan/Lord Militant/General type of character like Creed or Mecharius and others of their ilk. Depending on the background of such a character, I’d could equally see them commanding from a bunker, or a Chimera or Russ or even a Baneblade now that I think of it. I think a generic Lord Castellan type character would be a cool addition to the army, you could only have one type such character, whether on foot or in a tank, and you’d need to field a Supreme Command detachment to field them. That would be really, really cool IMHO.

Edited by Captain Smashy Pants
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not "actually"

 

You simply said leman Russ tanks were lumbering seige-y tanks, that couldn't shoot at fliers...you were being corrected for either being wrong or over generalizing.

 

If you're going to argue with me over a throwaway comment like "I'd not picture it as a thing that would readily shoot at zooming flyers" I'd like you to point out where I said it couldn't - because I didn't.

 

Add to that that you were asking "where are you getting that from" and I showed you from one of our best sources possible that it is described as a lumbering, low-tech tank that is not ideal for shooting at aircraft - how in any way is what I said, then, over-generalising? Or wrong?

Edited by bristlybadger
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I don't see how this current line of discussion fits with the OP of this thread.

 

Keep the discussion civil and on topic or this thread won't last much longer.

 

While we're at it let's try and avoid the excessive quoting in replies. It takes seconds to remove the redundant posts.

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Tank orders in general need to be a bit more creative and varied.

 

Yeah, and useful also

 

 

I think most of the Infantry orders also make sense as tank orders

  • Take Aim! (aka Gunners, Kill on Sight!)
  • Move Move Move! (aka Full Throttle!)
  • Bring It Down!  (I would change this to improve AP by 1)
  • Forwards, For the Emperor!
  • Get Back in the Fight (makes it so a tank can fall back and shoot)

"Fix Bayonets!" could be adapted to "Gun Them Down!", so a tank can shoot in the shooting phase without suffering the -1 to hit penalty for being in engagement range. 

 

If there is an Lt nearby, that would provide re-rolls of 1 to wound.  Maybe add a 2nd order if the one giving and receiving the orders don't move. 

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Tank orders in general need to be a bit more creative and varied.

 

Yeah, and useful also

 

 

I came up with a list of additional tank orders: 

 

- Button Up!: The ordered unit treats attacks against them with an AP of -1 as having AP 0 until the start of your next Command phase (stacks with Armageddon Regimental Trait for a total of AP-2). 
- Target Saturation!: Until the end of the Shooting phase, re-roll wound rolls of 1 for all the models in the ordered unit until the end of the phase.
- Watch our Flanks!: The ordered unit may make a free round of Overwatch, if this unit or any friendly unit within 6” is declared as a charge. 
- Back Pedal! Back Pedal! The ordered Vehicle unit can shoot this phase even if it Fell Back in the Movement phase.
 
I feel like these in addition to what we already have would be pretty good. Gives a lot more utility. I've said it before, I'll say it again. 
 
I definitely think Tank Commanders need a minimum of 2 orders and an 18 inch order range. 
 
Another thing I think would be nice is definitions, such as:
 
- Tank Model/Unit: Carnodon, Hellhound, Leman Russ, Malcador, Thunderer.
 
Then we could add Tank as a new keyword for each of these 5 units. A Tank Commander could be changed from Leman Russ to being 35 points + Tank model. They can then order any Tank unit. Pask would be limited to just a Leman Russ but could then order any Tank unit. 
 
This would open up so many options. Also saves from having a datasheet for every type of vehicle commander under the sun.
Edited by jarms48
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Actually along those lines didn't we lose our ability for defensive fuel Barrels? A strat that could be used in close combat that does X mortal wounds to engaged units would help
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I haven’t followed other factions codex releases that closely, did the recent ones like dark eldar and ad mech revive or improve on the specialist detachment rules that were removed earlier? There were a lot of good things in the guard specialist detachments that simply bringing back would go a long way.

 

Also I’d like the codex to help us out in secondary scoring, like how the blood angels get a secondary for being in the opponents deployment zone, if we have secondaries that easily complement our play style that will help a ton. Something like we score points when something from our deployment zone kills something in the enemy deployment zone, or an infantry order that completes an action instantly to free the unit up to act normally.

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Actually along those lines didn't we lose our ability for defensive fuel Barrels? A strat that could be used in close combat that does X mortal wounds to engaged units would help

Fire Barrels weren’t amazing. It triggered on the first unit that made a charge. So could be baited. If they made it a 3” D6 heavy flamer attack, one use only I think that’d be fine.

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I wouldn't want the 7th Ed version but a more useful one on a game where melee happens quickly

 

Ideally it wouldn't be restricted to single use only and d6 wounds would be optimal at the very least it would be a partial deterrent

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I wouldn't want the 7th Ed version but a more useful one on a game where melee happens quickly

 

Ideally it wouldn't be restricted to single use only and d6 wounds would be optimal at the very least it would be a partial deterrent

 

I think 5 points for a one-use D6 heavy flamer attacks in melee would be good. If you put it on something like a duel heavy flamer chimera, hellhound, or leman russ with heavy flamers it'd be quite scary. 

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Vehicale upgrades in general could use a upgrade.

Besides from maybe the Trackguards they are all garbage right now.

 

I miss the Days when you could plow through Terrain with the Bulldozershovel.

Something similar could be done for 9.Ed

Bulldozershovel: " if a Model epuipped with this upgrade moves through a Terrain with the difficult Ground Traits, this Terrain loses the Trait for the rest of the Game"

Would it bet gamebreaking good?

No

But would it be cool?

Absolutely!

 

To pick up my Idea from before you could make a Command Upgrade for Vehicals

Something like

+10 Points for Chimera/Taurox "A Model can use the Voice of Command ability while embarged in the Transport and is treated as he would be within 6" of a Vox"

+15 Points for Tank Commander(Veteran Leman Russ) "Increase the Range of all Orders to 18" and increase the number of Orders by 1"

+50 Points for Baneblade and Friends "increase the BS to +3, Friendly Units within 18" get +1Ld"

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Vehicale upgrades in general could use a upgrade.

Besides from maybe the Trackguards they are all garbage right now.

 

I miss the Days when you could plow through Terrain with the Bulldozershovel.

Something similar could be done for 9.Ed

Bulldozershovel: " if a Model epuipped with this upgrade moves through a Terrain with the difficult Ground Traits, this Terrain loses the Trait for the rest of the Game"

Would it bet gamebreaking good?

No

But would it be cool?

Absolutely!

 

To pick up my Idea from before you could make a Command Upgrade for Vehicals

Something like

+10 Points for Chimera/Taurox "A Model can use the Voice of Command ability while embarged in the Transport and is treated as he would be within 6" of a Vox"

+15 Points for Tank Commander(Veteran Leman Russ) "Increase the Range of all Orders to 18" and increase the number of Orders by 1"

+50 Points for Baneblade and Friends "increase the BS to +3, Friendly Units within 18" get +1Ld"

Personally I think vehicle upgrades should look like:

 

- Dozer Blade: In addition to its current ability this model may now make use of the Breachable terrain trait.

- Augur Array: Increase to 10 points. Units do not receive the benefit of cover to their saving throws for attacks made by a model with a Augur Array.

- Sentinels should be able to take a Hunter-killer Missile, or a Heavy Stubber. It can not have both.

 

As for your other suggestions, the only one I like is the Chimera/Taurox one. The Tank Commander should just be their default ability, and a Baneblade should have BS3+ by default.

 

In addition I think transports should have their own unique upgrades.

- The Command Vehicle upgrade, what you suggested.

- Medicae Vehicle: Can bring back one slain model or heal one model D3 wounds, and has a 6 inch 6+++ aura.

- Artillery Command Vehicle: An embarked Master of Ordinance can issue a single Tank Order to Artillery units, in addition measure from the vehicles hull when determining the aura for Master of Ballistics and Artillery Bombardment.

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Dozer blade was adding to Ram and if i recall correctly it was also adding front armor. So it could give, let's say, +1 WS/A and/or +1 T/Sv while being shot at from more than 12" or something

Edited by Shamansky
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