BGV v Relic/Normal Terminators v Aggressors: which and why?

[Mandragola]

I do think it’s a valid comparison. Ultimately we’re looking at what unit can best perform a particular function, which is to boss the midfield of the board so you get control of objectives. It’s a very important job.

 

For me, aggressors aren’t tough enough to do it. They’re not an anvil that you’ll break enemy units on. Their toughness is highly dependent on buffs like psychic fortress and strats too.

 

I don’t think I’d be teleporting the terminators most of the time. In my list their job is to waddle into the middle of the board. I guess maybe I’d do it against Tau some of the time but I expect even they would screen them out very effectively.

[Karhedron]

Another aspect to consider is to give an Invulnerable on Aggressors you need to invest in an additional unit - a Librarian in this case, who has to be within 6" of the Aggressors which is a fairly dangerous for a Librarian on the frontline.

One possibility is to put the Librarian himself in Terminator Armour. +1W and a 2+/5++ save help to make him a bit more durable.

[Brother Kraskor]

 

Another aspect to consider is to give an Invulnerable on Aggressors you need to invest in an additional unit - a Librarian in this case, who has to be within 6" of the Aggressors which is a fairly dangerous for a Librarian on the frontline.

One possibility is to put the Librarian himself in Terminator Armour. +1W and a 2+/5++ save help to make him a bit more durable.

 

 

Or bring a Vexilla Defensor ally... or is loss of Doctrines too heretical. 

[Mandragola]

 

 

Another aspect to consider is to give an Invulnerable on Aggressors you need to invest in an additional unit - a Librarian in this case, who has to be within 6" of the Aggressors which is a fairly dangerous for a Librarian on the frontline.

One possibility is to put the Librarian himself in Terminator Armour. +1W and a 2+/5++ save help to make him a bit more durable.

 

 

Or bring a Vexilla Defensor ally... or is loss of Doctrines too heretical. 

 

That's seriously heretical.

 

Marines do have options to get invulnerable auras. Azrael is probably the obvious one. There have been fairly successful Greenwing armies based around Azrael and Aggressors, I think.

 

Overall I think that all these options have their advantages. They're pretty well balanced, so the deciding factor is likely to be what chapter you're playing and the options that gives you, rather than one unit being clearly better than another. Ravenguard Centurions are awesome with SftS, White Scar bladeguard are amazing, and so on.

[Captain Idaho]

I dunno, I just don't like hitting on a 4+ with Marines. Fury of the First really helps Terminators in that regard.

[Iron Father Ferrum]

As an Iron Hand, I would take Hammernators. Their defensive stat line is 1+/4++/6+++ (improvableto 5+++ with 1CP), and yes, BGV and Aggressors are close to that with extra wounds.

 

However, Hammernators can benefit offensively from both Fury of the First *and* Gorgon's Rage which means those juicy 3D hammers are hitting on 2+. Add a captain for RR1s and that's a lot of really reliable dice.

[XeonDragon]

. . . and XD was clear he wanted to hear from a Chapter’s specific POV. I can’t join this discussion because I’m Primaris biased.

 

 

If I weren’t though I’d look hard at Relic Terminators.

 Hey, I don't exclude primaris players only :D More than happy for your to talk about primaris options/equivalents/substitutes etc :)

[MegaVolt87]

I am embracing the new ways of primaris, but those saying Aggressors look better than the relic terminators (they aren't). I am interested in the flamestorm aggressors, swapping out the bodies with the new heavy intercessor bodies would improve the unit immensely. I like the dice buckets on paper you roll with these. 

[Prot]

Great thread. And I think this is one area where GW can take some real credit here. ( I do put centurions in this category as well). 
 

it’s clear by my own play testing and this thread that the units in question do very well with a specific rule set, or a specific role. 
 

For example, I have moved away from Bladeguard Vets in my UM but they are extremely potent with my White Scars. 
 

I have been high and low on Aggressors. I feel the same about Centurions. It’s all so situational now and extremely hard to judge without looking at the support cast around these units. 

[Jorin Helm-splitter]

My rankings would be...

 

1) Bladeguard Vets - They lack the customization of termies but have a really solid base build. They just do exactly what you need units to do in 9th take an objective and hold it that round.

 

2) Full disclosure I just run primaris now so I don't have alot of experience with termies this edition. That said I think they're good but you have to build the army around them, and you have to be disciplined with upgrades.

 

3) Aggressors- I like these guys but they feel similar to termies where I think you need to build around them, but they don't have deep strike or an invulnerable. They are also better against hordes which just aren't a big factor yet (it is early in the edition).

 

Honorable mention - Wolfguard with jump packs, or vanguard vets for the rest of you. I really think these guys belong in this discussion they're a durable melee unit. They do trade some durability for speed but I think overall that they're as tough as aggressors. The extra movement while still being able to deep strike is powerful. I don't run them but would probably take them over bladeguard vets because of how flexible they are.

[XeonDragon]

My rankings would be...

 

1) Bladeguard Vets - They lack the customization of termies but have a really solid base build. They just do exactly what you need units to do in 9th take an objective and hold it that round.

 

2) Full disclosure I just run primaris now so I don't have alot of experience with termies this edition. That said I think they're good but you have to build the army around them, and you have to be disciplined with upgrades.

 

3) Aggressors- I like these guys but they feel similar to termies where I think you need to build around them, but they don't have deep strike or an invulnerable. They are also better against hordes which just aren't a big factor yet (it is early in the edition).

 

Honorable mention - Wolfguard with jump packs, or vanguard vets for the rest of you. I really think these guys belong in this discussion they're a durable melee unit. They do trade some durability for speed but I think overall that they're as tough as aggressors. The extra movement while still being able to deep strike is powerful. I don't run them but would probably take them over bladeguard vets because of how flexible they are.

Which chapter do you most often play? (it would give some context to your rankings :) )

[Jorin Helm-splitter]

I'm a space wolf player.

 

Edit: I wanted to add that our chapter bonus really helps aggressors and terminators connect on the first round. It's just aggressors are best against horde units and I feel like our tactic already makes most wolf units strong options against hordes.

Edited March 3, 2021 by Jorin Helm-splitter

[XeonDragon]

I'm a space wolf player.

 

Edit: I wanted to add that our chapter bonus really helps aggressors and terminators connect on the first round. It's just aggressors are best against horde units and I feel like our tactic already makes most wolf units strong options against hordes.

I can see that. I play RG, and I find Aggressor with a +1 to hit and wound in both shooting and melee during tactical doctrine against character very, very good. Challenge is getting them into combat. I see aggressors as more anti-light infantry (shooting) and AT (combat), whereas terminators are a little more flexible thanks to weapon load-outs etc. That said, transhuman + apothecary = very nice mid-board bully unit :)