Attacks vs Hits

[Valkyrion]

Each time the bearer fights, it can make one (and only one) attack with this weapon. Make D3 hit rolls for this attack instead of one. This is in addition to the bearer’s attacks.

 

 

Tyranid thresher scythe.

 

You can re-roll hit rolls of 1 for this weapon. If the bearer has more than one pair of monstrous scything talons, it can make 1 additional attack with this weapon each time it fights.

 

 

Scything talons. Emphasis mine on both.

 

Thresher scythe reads to me that you make D3 rolls to hit, but if any hit then you score one (1) hit, so you have an increased chance of hitting once.

Why would it not say 'Each time the bearer fights, it can make D3 attacks with this weapon. This is in addition to the bearer's attacks.'

 

Weapons that give you additional attacks say so and make no mention of hit rolls.

 

Am I wrong? I think I'm wrong but it's worded oddly, IMO.

[Marshal Loss]

It's not an increased chance of hitting once; it effectively turns each attack into D3 potential hits, each of which will in turn roll to wound, etc. Similar wording is present on the DG FBD's Fleshmower and the SoB Penitent Flails on the Mortifiers/Penitents for example (Make [x] hit rolls for this weapon instead of one).

Edited March 10, 2021 by Marshal Loss

[Rik Lightstar]

It leaves it open for abilities that reduce or increase your number of attacks to affect one but not the other.

 

Rik

[Valkyrion]

So, if there was a rule that said 'pick one of your opponents weapons. reduce the number of attacks made by that weapon by 1', and the opponent picked the Scythe tail then it couldn't be used as it stands now, because you only make 1 attack but roll D3 times. 

But if it said 'make D3 attacks' then it could deal 0, 1 or 2 attacks.

 

Or if a rule says something like 'the first attack made by this weapon gets +1 to hit' - that would apply to all D3 thresher scythe hits, because it is just 1 attack, right?

 

I get it. I couldn't see why 1 attack with D3 hits was a different thing than D3 attacks with 1 hit, but I guess it is!

[Claws and Effect]

1 attack with multiple potential hits is typically used to represent something that can hit multiple targets with a single swing.

 

Swing it once and hit 1-3 guys with it, etc.

Edited April 3, 2021 by Claws and Effect

[Acebaur]

 

Each time the bearer fights, it can make one (and only one) attack with this weapon. Make D3 hit rolls for this attack instead of one. This is in addition to the bearer’s attacks.

 

 

Tyranid thresher scythe.

 

You can re-roll hit rolls of 1 for this weapon. If the bearer has more than one pair of monstrous scything talons, it can make 1 additional attack with this weapon each time it fights.

 

 

Scything talons. Emphasis mine on both.

 

Thresher scythe reads to me that you make D3 rolls to hit, but if any hit then you score one (1) hit, so you have an increased chance of hitting once.

Why would it not say 'Each time the bearer fights, it can make D3 attacks with this weapon. This is in addition to the bearer's attacks.'

 

Weapons that give you additional attacks say so and make no mention of hit rolls.

 

Am I wrong? I think I'm wrong but it's worded oddly, IMO.

 

 

It's worded that way because you take the number of attacks on the model's profile and for each one that you use with that weapon roll a D3 and make that many hit rolls. So if you have 4 attacks then the number of hit rolls you make is 4D3. The wording on the scything talons is because you will always make 1 aditional attack with that weapon regardless of what other weapons you have or fight with. So lets say you have both of these weapons and you swing all 4 of your attacks with the Thresher, you make 4D3 attacks with that and 1 with the talons. 

 

Does that clear it up?

[Dam13n]

Following up on that, given the example you just used:

 

As you can only make a maximum of 1 attack with the Thresher, you cannot generate those 4d3+1 hit rolls.

 

Instead it would be 1d3 Thresher hit rolls plus 4 (3+1) hit rolls from the Scything Talon(s).

[Spinsanity]

While it's not really applicable here, it's the only example I can come up with that has this kind of wording so I figure it's a good way to highlight the difference.

 

Assuming a rule or stratagem gave access to something similar to the Salamander's chapter tactic that lets them re-roll one wound roll when making an attack; if that attack resulted in 3 hits, only one of those 3 wound rolls could be re-rolled, instead of all 3 if it were 3 separate attacks...

Edited April 13, 2021 by Spinsanity

[Dam13n]

It would depend on the wording of the stratagem.

 

If it was worded something like: "Until the end of the phase, this model/unit may re-roll a single wound roll per attack", then you would be correct.