State of the Union (Heresy)

[Darkwrath121]

Are boxnaughts still in the new edition. Seriously I don't get why one of the apparently many leakers on this site can't just give us a run down on what models made it and which didn't.

If I had to guess (and is what I'd be worried about if I was a playtester), it may be the fear that different playtesters MAY have different units. So on the offchance you are outing your identity by leaking the units you didn't get.

 

That's just the kind of thing that does happen to catch leakers out. And absolutely just part of a guess on my part

Edited April 1, 2022 by Darkwrath121

[Brofist]

Boxnaughts are not in the new edition. Neither is artillery, lightnings, and a few other units. If you read what I wrote before, I suspect some of this will return to us in other army lists. Legion specific stuff is still open to speculation. They likely did one final revision before it went to print.

 

Here's what's confirmed in:

• Preators
• Centurions except the warmonger
• Command squads
• Damocles
• Vets
• Terminators
• Destroyers
• Apothacries
• Tech marines
• Contemptors
• Rapiers
• Tacticals
• Despoilers
• Assault squads
• Breachers
• Support squads
• Recon squads
• Scout squads
• Rhinos
• Drop pods
• Dreadnought drop pods
• Termites
• Seekers
• Outriders
• Sabers
• Sky-hunters
• Javlins
• Land speeds
• Storm eagles
• Xiphons
• Dreadclaws
• Leviathans
• Derdeos
• Heavy support squads
• Predators
• Sicarans of all flavors
• Kratos
• Land raider proteus
• Spartans
• Scorpius
• Arquitors
• Fire raptors
• Deathstorm drop pods
• Kharybdi
• Cerebrus
• Typhon
• Glaive
• Fellblade
• Falchion
• Thunderhawk
• Stormbird
• Mastodon

[Darkwrath121]

I do admit I have another rules question, actually. Has relentless changed? If so, what does it do now?

[TheTrans]

Boxnaughts are not in the new edition. Neither is artillery, lightnings, and a few other units. If you read what I wrote before, I suspect some of this will return to us in other army lists. Legion specific stuff is still open to speculation. They likely did one final revision before it went to print.

 

Here's what's confirmed in:

• Preators
• Centurions except the warmonger
• Command squads
• Damocles
• Vets
• Terminators
• Destroyers
• Apothacries
• Tech marines
• Contemptors
• Rapiers
• Tacticals
• Despoilers
• Assault squads
• Breachers
• Support squads
• Recon squads
• Scout squads
• Rhinos
• Drop pods
• Dreadnought drop pods
• Termites
• Seekers
• Outriders
• Sabers
• Sky-hunters
• Javlins
• Land speeds
• Storm eagles
• Xiphons
• Dreadclaws
• Leviathans
• Derdeos
• Heavy support squads
• Predators
• Sicarans of all flavors
• Kratos
• Land raider proteus
• Spartans
• Scorpius
• Arquitors
• Fire raptors
• Deathstorm drop pods
• Kharybdi
• Cerebrus
• Typhon
• Glaive
• Fellblade
• Falchion
• Thunderhawk
• Stormbird
• Mastodon

 

They also dropped the nullificator Primus from the Cent line up mate. Should we create a unit dropped list? :P 

[Brofist]

Haha yeah, known dropped units list. Get the pain out of our systems early

[WrathOfTheLion]

Aw man, I just bought a boxnaught 

 

I guess I'll wait to build him to see if I should paint him green instead of black. I like the stompy lads, I'm more partial to them than any of the other ones listed.

[TheTrans]

Removed stuff

Consuls

-Warmonger

-Nullificator

Nullificators

Boxnoughts

Contemptor Cortus

Mortis Boxnaught

Contemptor Mortis

Hussar Squad

Sky Seekers

Attack Bikes(?)

Tarantulas

Primaris Lightning

Sky-Slayers

Land Raider Achilles

Land Riader Achilles Alpha

Legion Basilik

Legion Medusa

Caestus Assault Ram

Legion Malcador

 

PoW  LoWs

Baneblade Family

Macharius Family

Malcador Family

 

Actual Book LoW Drops

Stormblade

Thunderhawk Transporter

Big stupid terrain piece

 

Legion Specific (that we've seen in leaks etc so is spotty at best, also factor in exemplary battle units are goneski as well)

 

Dark Angels

Firewing Enigmatus Cabal

Ironwing Excindio Automata

Mardruk Sedras

Farith Redloss

 

EC

Ancient Rylaanor

 

IW

Iron Havocs

Golg

Vhalen

Dreygur

 

White Scars

Falcons Claws (probably)

Tsolmon Khan (?)

 

SW

(?)

 

IF

(?)

 

NL

Mawdrym

Kheron Ophion

Makrid Thole

 

BA

Aster Crohne

 

IH

Castrmen Orth

Autek Mor

Shadrak Meduson

 

World Eaters

Shabran Darr

Gahlan Surlak (by extension Inductii)

 

Ultras

Fulmentarus (?)

Locutarus Storm (?)

Honored Telemchrus

 

DG

Crysos Morturg

Durak Rask

 

1ksons

Ammatara Cabal

 

 

SoH

Tybalt Marr

 

WB

Hol Beloth

 

Sallies

Cassian Dracos

Dracos Reborn

Chaplain Nomus

Xiaphas Jurr

 

RG

Darkwing Gunship

Alvarex Maun

Kaedus Nex

 

AL

Skorr

Blackshields
Black Shield Reaver Lord
BS Marauder Squads

Good chance I've missed stuff/put stuff on the list that has been confirmed, but its a start. 

P.S. I'm not buying units were dropped to 'reduce book load' when we have pages for 'Praetor', 'Praetor in Tartaros Armour' etc... 

Edited April 1, 2022 by TheTrans

[lordhellblade]

 

Is anyone else super disappointed in the Blood Angel stuff? World Eaters get chainaxes for free which essentially do what our trait does at all times and then they get their own legion trait on top of it. The blade of perdition stuff is cool but not exactly a buff I would say. And the rites of war are alright but not exactly stellar.

 

Unless they are planning on reworking the legion trait I don’t see myself bringing them out very much, my main opponent is World Eaters and his army will just do what I do but much better in every single way as of now.

I have the feeling that Blood Angels will fare better than people give'em credit for. They get things that the Khornate doofuses do not like Inferno pistols and assault cannons to crack vehicles open. Day of Revelation was nerfed, but Day of Sorrows was buffed and the restriction on vehicles was lifted. Crimson Paladins might get fixed after all this time. Like with Emperor's Children, there is more to Blood Angels than pure melee. Russ took a legion of savages and made them into warriors. Angron took a legion of warriors and turned them into savages. But Sanguinius? He took a legion of degenerates and made them into a host of angels.

 

http://i.4pcdn.org/tg/1648684841168.jpg

 

In other news, Grey Slayers are now their own unit. The tactical role of the old unit has been given to the new Grey Stalkers:

http://i.4pcdn.org/tg/1648683523317.png

 

Wolfbros, what do you think of this?

 

Feels very redundant role wise, especially since the Grey Slayers have been cleaned up  loadout wise and Blood Claws are supposed to be a thing during the Heresy per Collected Visions,   Especially because in "1.0" You could just take a tactical squad as non compulsory troops.  Hell in the Insignia section in Inferno there's even a  Space Wolf tactical icon separate from the Grey Slayer heraldry. 

 

And when I think what the Space Wolves in the Heresy need,  I'm not thinking another bespoke unit, especially when a lot of the Space Wolf's unique units can be rather accurately represented by what we already have, like Assault Marines for Skyclaws,  Hussars or outriders for Swiftclaws and they already have unique troops outside of FOC shifting in the form of Grey Slayers 

 

More,  a Praetor upgrade  in the vein of the Iron Warriors or Iron Hands,  and revised warlord traits, 

 

 Though from what I can make out about the text, mentions these had a lot of terran vets in the legion in their numbers  which is cool, since I never liked how Wolfsbane made it seem all the Terran's in the VIth were dead

 

Still want rules for the Consul-Opsequiari tho 

[james71989]

Anyone see raldarons rules yet? Is he still pretty much the same as current edition?

[bushman101]

If that 'removed model' list is true, I've dodged a few bullets.

 

But some of the removed stuff seems unbelievable. I mean, no Baneblades, Attack Bikes or Thunderhawks?

Seriously?

[Darkwrath121]

If that 'removed model' list is true, I've dodged a few bullets.

 

But some of the removed stuff seems unbelievable. I mean, no Baneblades, Attack Bikes or Thunderhawks?

Seriously?

Just the transporter. The regular is around.

[Spagunk]

I do admit I have another rules question, actually. Has relentless changed? If so, what does it do now?

Not really. Still heavy, ordnance and rapid fire.

Anyone see raldarons rules yet? Is he still pretty much the same as current edition?

His warlord trait is MUCH more robust. Otherwise he's very close to the same.

[Aztek]

 

I do admit I have another rules question, actually. Has relentless changed? If so, what does it do now?

Not really. Still heavy, ordnance and rapid fire.

Anyone see raldarons rules yet? Is he still pretty much the same as current edition?

His warlord trait is MUCH more robust. Otherwise he's very close to the same.

 

Spagunk have you seen Corswain's rules? How's he looking? Is he worthy of being essentially the 1st captain of the 1st? Does he stand with Siggy and Sevatar at the top?

[james71989]

 

I do admit I have another rules question, actually. Has relentless changed? If so, what does it do now?

Not really. Still heavy, ordnance and rapid fire.

Anyone see raldarons rules yet? Is he still pretty much the same as current edition?

His warlord trait is MUCH more robust. Otherwise he's very close to the same.

Same points as before

[Noserenda]

Wheres the Whirlwind at given its appeared on neither list ooi? 

I find the extensive list of missing units a pretty cheap move when, as mentioned, they are happy to splash pages on redundant praetors or near identical space wolf units that mostly serve to needlessly split an existing unit as i understand it? (Not too familiar with SW in 30k myself if im wrong!) Im hoping they are in missing sections of at the very least a legends equivalent but really the pointed disregard for existing collections is individually annoying and a real red flag for the teams attitude to even the absolute flagship, money spinning army list. God help the others at this rate.

[Spagunk]

 

 

I do admit I have another rules question, actually. Has relentless changed? If so, what does it do now?

Not really. Still heavy, ordnance and rapid fire.

Anyone see raldarons rules yet? Is he still pretty much the same as current edition?

His warlord trait is MUCH more robust. Otherwise he's very close to the same.

Same points as before

His stat line has changed slightly but remains the same as before ;)

Edited April 1, 2022 by Spagunk

[Armillion]

Waiting to see what is 100% confirmed in the final ruleset for units.

 

That said, currently would lose the following:

• Crysos Morturg - converted from spare bits, so whatever
• 2 Boxnauts - annoying
• 5 Nullificators - this was a lot of work to convert up with the toxiferran flamers, I don't think I have the heart to rip all that work apart to convert them back to bog-standard cataphractii.  I will homebrew these in gameplay if I have to.
• 2 Basilisks - no good reason why these should be gone
• 1 Standard Achilles - massive conversion project for the last 2 months from a LR Redeemer since the real thing disappeared back years ago and I had literally planned to buy it the month after it disappeared back then.  Probably the closest I have ever gotten to going for a recast but instead I put in dozens of hours, kitbashing, greenstuff and plasticard that has gone into making my own Achilles based upon pictures.  I was planning to finally prime it this weekend.  Yeah... this one really hurts personally.

[Spagunk]

 

Spagunk have you seen Corswain's rules? How's he looking? Is he worthy of being essentially the 1st captain of the 1st? Does he stand with Siggy and Sevatar at the top?

 

I don't have book 9 to know if he's different but he's a bit more expensive than raldoran is now but looks tougher in general. He's not a duelist as much as Siggy is so I wouldn't quite put him at that level.

[WrathOfTheLion]

There's ones I understand, like the Caestus which has been OOP, or the Malcador which hasn't been listed under Legionnes Astartes (on the web store) for a few years now. But I think cutting half the Dark Angels datasheets is rough, and I hope we see a further release then making up for that.

 

Their own 'special' FW characters from before that have no model I understand getting cut, but I don't want to see legions with no named characters when they haven't been graced with models yet.

 

Boxnaughts, Basilisks and Medusas I think are the most rough, because you can still straight buy them.

Edited April 1, 2022 by WrathOfTheLion

[Aztek]

Thanks for the response!

[Marshal Rohr]

Removed stuff

Consuls

-Warmonger

-Nullificator

Nullificators

Boxnoughts

Contemptor Cortus

Mortis Boxnaught

Contemptor Mortis

Hussar Squad

Sky Seekers

Attack Bikes(?)

Tarantulas

Primaris Lightning

Sky-Slayers

Land Raider Achilles

Land Riader Achilles Alpha

Legion Basilik

Legion Medusa

Caestus Assault Ram

Legion Malcador

 

PoW  LoWs

Baneblade Family

Macharius Family

Malcador Family

 

Actual Book LoW Drops

Stormblade

Thunderhawk Transporter

Big stupid terrain piece

 

Legion Specific (that we've seen in leaks etc so is spotty at best, also factor in exemplary battle units are goneski as well)

 

Dark Angels

Firewing Enigmatus Cabal

Ironwing Excindio Automata

Mardruk Sedras

Farith Redloss

 

EC

Ancient Rylaanor

 

IW

Iron Havocs

Golg

Vhalen

Dreygur

 

White Scars

Falcons Claws (probably)

Tsolmon Khan (?)

 

SW

(?)

 

IF

(?)

 

NL

Mawdrym

Kheron Ophion

Makrid Thole

 

BA

Aster Crohne

 

IH

Castrmen Orth

Autek Mor

Shadrak Meduson

 

World Eaters

Shabran Darr

Gahlan Surlak (by extension Inductii)

 

Ultras

Fulmentarus (?)

Locutarus Storm (?)

Honored Telemchrus

 

DG

Crysos Morturg

Durak Rask

 

1ksons

Ammatara Cabal

 

 

SoH

Tybalt Marr

 

WB

Hol Beloth

 

Sallies

Cassian Dracos

Dracos Reborn

Chaplain Nomus

Xiaphas Jurr

 

RG

Darkwing Gunship

Alvarex Maun

Kaedus Nex

 

AL

Skorr

Blackshields

Black Shield Reaver Lord

BS Marauder Squads

 

Good chance I've missed stuff/put stuff on the list that has been confirmed, but its a start. 

P.S. I'm not buying units were dropped to 'reduce book load' when we have pages for 'Praetor', 'Praetor in Tartaros Armour' etc...

 

Brutal :(

[Yodhrin]

Removing boxnaughts is just dumb - people were going to buy your new plastic Contemptor anyway GW - but why get rid of the Contemptor Mortis?

 

Anyway since we're apparently not allowed to see the doccos ourselves, I'd appreciate it if the folk who have could clarify what's up with Destroyers? I've seen vague references to two different subtypes.

Edited April 1, 2022 by Yodhrin

[Slips]

Removing boxnaughts is just dumb, people were going to buy your new plastic Contemptor anyway GW, but why get rid of the Contemptor Mortis?

 

Anyway since we're apparently not allowed to see the doccos ourselves, I'd appreciate it if the folk who have could clarify what's up with Destroyers? I've seen vague references to two different subtypes.

One thing people need to consider with some of these units going away is if their profile could have been consolidated into another and its special bonus made into an upgrade.

[WrathOfTheLion]

Do you think boxnaughts are part of the Contemptor datasheet then? I guess at the end of the day, they're on a 60mm base with a similar loadout, so we can run them as that.

I understand the Mortis/Cortus almost certainly are folded in as such.

Edited April 1, 2022 by WrathOfTheLion

[TheTrans]

 

Removing boxnaughts is just dumb, people were going to buy your new plastic Contemptor anyway GW, but why get rid of the Contemptor Mortis?

 

Anyway since we're apparently not allowed to see the doccos ourselves, I'd appreciate it if the folk who have could clarify what's up with Destroyers? I've seen vague references to two different subtypes.

One thing people need to consider with some of these units going away is if their profile could have been consolidated into another and its special bonus made into an upgrade.

 

Mm...doesn't hold water when they have separate data sheets based on what terminator armour a model has. 

 

+5pts a model, the whole unit may be upgraded to Cataphractii armour, increasing their invuln save to 4+, -1" to their movement characteristic and each model gets the unit type (Heavy) in addition to those they already have. 

 

Isn't hard. 

Edited April 1, 2022 by TheTrans