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Question regarding the Mantis Warriors Chapter

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#1
Gamiel

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Much fanart of the Mantis Warriors Chapter depict them as samurai-ish. I was wondering what this idea is based on, since nothing in their description (that I have seen) says samurai to me*? Or is it just a question of somebody doing them as samurai and later people just picking it up?

* more than any other warrior culture/group

 

 

Some examples:

43777-Astral%20Claws%2C%20Badab%2C%20Hur
 
 
adrian-iglesias-img-20201018-203042.jpg?
 
 
Sketchbook-May2018-Space-Marines-Samurai
 
 
d2it2ve-edeb2337-6f5a-47ea-999e-55b87d9c
 
 
This one is AU but still a functional example:
swkbksyis7p31.jpg
 
 
Guess this one could just be said to be Japanese-ish since that kind of swords handle is pop-culturally used by both samurais and ninjas
deathwatch_mantis_warrior_by_shuggnuggat


#2
Dumah

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I think it's more implied than stated. Officially, they're described as possessing a "streak of dark mysticism" which, combined with being descendants of the White Scars and being described as resource-poor compared to other chapters, lends itself to a feudal Samurai theme. You can certainly take it in a different direction if you're so inclined.


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#3
Lucien Eilam

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There was nothing like this in IA10.

 

Visually, they were presented as a standard Codex Chapter with more Mark IV/VI armour than usual.

 

The Marines named in their Index Astartes look to be derived from a mix of mock Latin (e.g. "Audamus"), Mongolian ("Sartaq"), vaguely Arabic ("Saraken", "Damaskan", slain in the defence of the "Ful'Souk Settlement"), and a few oddities like "Surabaya" (an Indonesian city derived from Sanskrit).

 

Nothing at all that strikes me as derived from Japanese language or culture, and camouflage and ambush tactics don't really say "samurai" to me.

 

If anything, the names, quotations about "the winds of the desert" and the focus on prophecy gives me a vaguely Middle Eastern vibe, with traces of their White Scars roots.


Edited by Lucien Eilam, 21 March 2021 - 03:48 PM.

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#4
Brother Tyler

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The only thing remotely Asian (not just Japanese) about the Mantis Warriors in any official publications is that the Deathwatch novel Warrior Brood includes some Mantis Warriors and the descriptions of their appearance might be interpreted as being vaguely Chinese (at least, that's the impression I got when I read that novel fifteen years ago). Aside from that, any representations of Mantis Warriors being Japanese are purely fan-based and inconsistent with the official portrayals (in the Badab War campaign books from Forge World).

Keep in mind, though, that things can change over time, so it's entirely possible that this popular (but not ubiquitous) portrayal of "Japanese" Mantis Warriors might influence future official characterization of the Chapter. This might be less likely now with GW centering the majority of the Adeptus Astartes into a more standardized appearance (i.e., not having to create special miniatures/upgrade kits for every Tom, Dick, and Harry Chapter).


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#5
Gederas

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I think the Japanese thing came from a /tg/ (4chan's Tabletop Games board) joke.

 

So here's the thing: Mantis Warriors are a White Scars successor. White Scars are Mongolian-themed, but also have a lot of "Generic Asian" traits in them. This lead to /tg/ making a joke on the fact that the Mantis Warriors are named after the Mantis. White Scars are noted to love bikes, and this seems to be the case with their successors in general. It's also stated (I'm unsure in which IA) that they named things after giant insects from their homeworld.

 

Bug named, likes bikes? That's Kamen Rider.

 

Hence the Samurai theming by the fans. It's the same reason as to why the Rainbow Warriors (for those who remember they exist) are depicted as Mesoamerican (there's apparently an Native American myth of a being called The Rainbow Warrior who will defend all life)


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#6
Gamiel

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I made some more diggining and it seems that this pic:

 

was commissioned for the Bell of Lost Soul Badab War fan supplement from 2009 (I think), one year before Imperial Armour vol. 9 - The Badab War - Part One came out (2010). It also seems that this pic is the oldest one of the ones I posted.

 

 

 

 

I think the Japanese thing came from a /tg/ (4chan's Tabletop Games board) joke.

 

So here's the thing: Mantis Warriors are a White Scars successor. White Scars are Mongolian-themed, but also have a lot of "Generic Asian" traits in them. This lead to /tg/ making a joke on the fact that the Mantis Warriors are named after the Mantis. White Scars are noted to love bikes, and this seems to be the case with their successors in general. It's also stated (I'm unsure in which IA) that they named things after giant insects from their homeworld.

 

Bug named, likes bikes? That's Kamen Rider.

 

Hence the Samurai theming by the fans. It's the same reason as to why the Rainbow Warriors (for those who remember they exist) are depicted as Mesoamerican (there's apparently an Native American myth of a being called The Rainbow Warrior who will defend all life)

An interesting theory but I don't think it hold since if we go by the fanart posted above so is the samurai theme the one that appear, not any Kamen Rider, or insect theme (beside their symbol). There is also no bikes.


Edited by Gamiel, 22 March 2021 - 10:14 AM.


#7
Lucien Eilam

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It's also stated (I'm unsure in which IA) that they named things after giant insects from their homeworld.

 

Sort of: IA10 says company markings are based on stylised insects from their primary training world (they recruited from across the cluster, no single homeworld), rather than naming. Although, the art department apparently didn't get the memo: all the colour plates are pretty much Codex standard.

 

No mention of bikes in IA10, their mobility seems to be based more on Thunderhawks, Rhinos and jump packs.

 

So, looks like that fan art was actually all based on White Scars successor + the Chapter icon = Kamen Rider, from before there was any real official lore to contradict it. As soon as there was, it was contradicted about as thoroughly as possible.


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#8
Brother Tyler

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If I recall correctly, mantidae was a term associated with the Mantis Warriors in Warrior Brood (the Deathwatch novel). I think it was some organization within the Chapter. In the real world, Mantidae is one of the largest families in the order of praying mantises. The source of information for the Chapter naming things after insects is probably that novel.

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#9
Spinsanity

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I made some more diggining and it seems that this pic:
[...]
was commissioned for the Bell of Lost Soul Badab War fan supplement from 2009 (I think), one year before Imperial Armour vol. 9 - The Badab War - Part One came out (2010). It also seems that this pic is the oldest one of the ones I posted.

Dammit, I've been trying to find a copy of that fan supplement and can't seem to find a working link anymore. Anyone managed to find one?

#10
Gamiel

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I made some more diggining and it seems that this pic:
[...]
was commissioned for the Bell of Lost Soul Badab War fan supplement from 2009 (I think), one year before Imperial Armour vol. 9 - The Badab War - Part One came out (2010). It also seems that this pic is the oldest one of the ones I posted.

Dammit, I've been trying to find a copy of that fan supplement and can't seem to find a working link anymore. Anyone managed to find one?

 

Here is the one I found: 101_badab-war-v1-0.pdf


Edited by Gamiel, 22 March 2021 - 03:06 PM.

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#11
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I think it could also have something to do with the World War 2 Themes of the Badab war. The Astral claws where secetly building themselfes up to around 5000 Marines. Just like Germany went against the versailler contracts. The Lamenters  have an Italienic influence through their Blood Angels lineage. Maybe because of this people sarted to use the East Asian of the White Scars lineage and interpreted as Japanese since it would fit nicely with an Axis theme. 

 

I could be wrong but that was the impression that I got reading IA:9&10. It had a bit of an third reich flavor to it.


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#12
Bjorn Firewalker

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Mantises are also a motif the historical samurai used, decorating their tsuba (the guard component of their sword hilts).
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#13
Gamiel

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I did some digging (a.k.a. asked the people who did the art or looked through the comments), and it seems that it's mostly a coincidence. People either wants to do a samurai-ish themed Chapter and go to the Mantis Warriors - possibly as the most noted WS successor; or do something with the Mantis Warriors and think they should have a kind of asian theme since they are WS successors and go for a Samurai one since they are the most well known warrior culture from that area, internationally speaking.



#14
Kurgan the Lurker

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Nothing I have in the "Great List" points to Samurai themes, though I've not kept up with the lore in the last 3+ years during my hiatus.

 

Mantis Warriors:

·       902M41 pledge their support to the Astral Claws. Codex: Chaos pg. 23

  • 904M41 Ships of the Fire Hawks Chapter are attacked and captured by the Mantis Warriors Chapter. The Fire Hawks immediately retaliate. Codex: Chaos pg. 23
  • 912M41 Chapter deemed salvageable after their participation in the Badab Rebellion and sent on a 100 year crusade. Codex: Chaos pg. 23
  • 912M41 Chapters Home world forfeited to loyal Chapters. Codex: Chaos pg. 23
  • Badab War. Warhammer 40k Compendium pg. 33
  • Home world forfeited to the Space Sharks at the close of the Badab War. Warhammer 40k Compendium pg. 33
  • Chapter color scheme – two variants. Warhammer 40k Compendium pg. 34
  • Tranquility Campaign. Warhammer 40k Compendium pg. 34
  • 2nd Company engages Tyranids on Herodian IV. Captain Audin. Librarian Shaidan (killed). Chaplain Aegir (killed). Sgts. Magnir (dev - killed), Hoenir (terminators - killed), Ruinus (dev – killed),  Soron (assault - killed), Standard Bearer Lodur (killed), Brothers Balder, Nerthus (killed), Haldrus (killed) . Novel: Warrior Brood by C. S. Goto
  • 2nd Company banner has a flaming mantis claw in the center. Destroyed by Tyranids on Herodian IV when Standard Bearer Lodur was brought down by a spore mine. Novel: Warrior Brood by C. S. Goto
  • Battle Cry: “For Redemption!” “For the Mantis Warriors!” “For the Emperor!” Novel: Warrior Brood by C. S. Goto
  • Nanthrax III. Recruiting world of the Chapter. Novel: Warrior Brood by C. S. Goto
  • Strike Cruiser: Penitent Quest. Novel: Warrior Brood by C. S. Goto
  • Battle Barge: Endless Redemption. Home to 2 Companies (2nd and 4th) though both are greatly depleted. Novel: Warrior Brood by C. S. Goto
  • Chapter has not been allowed to recruit since embarking on its penitent crusade and their numbers are dangerously low. Novel: Warrior Brood by C. S. Goto
  • Fought Astral Claws in the Tenkudari Nebula. Novel: Warrior Brood by C. S. Goto
  • Strike Cruiser: Sword of Contrition. Novel: Warrior Brood by C. S. Goto
  • Captain Krelian. 4th Company. Novel: Warrior Brood by C. S. Goto
  • The Praying Mantidae. Those warriors within Chapter charged with hunting down the Astral Claws. Novel: Warrior Brood by C. S. Goto
  • Skin described as dark and covered in cursive and barbed tatoos on their faces and necks. Novel: Warrior Brood by C. S. Goto
  • Armor described as polished emerald green. Novel: Warrior Brood by C. S. Goto
  • 3 warriors described as having long black hair and green eyes. Possible recruitment world trait or gene-seed issue? Novel: Warrior Brood by C. S. Goto
  • Prior to the Badab War the Mantis Warriors were the 2nd largest contributor to the Deathwatch. Since the Badab War there have been no Mantis Warriors in the Deathwatch. Novel: Warrior Brood by C. S. Goto
  • Captain Krellian killed while clearing Tyranid ogranisms off the Imperial Naval vessel Purgation. Novel: Warrior Brood by C. S. Goto
  • Captain Maetrus discovers the ability to enter a battle haze prior to Badab War. This is due to the Chapters defective Preomnor implant. Attitudes of deepest devotion and penitence would trigger this haze. This allows certain Marines reaching a certain state of mind to physically create neurotoxic chemicals that change the Marines perception of time and space. While this ability would narrow the Marines focus and allow them to move much faster than normal, once entered the state could not be left. Special squads of Marines caught in this state were part of each Company and called the MantisReligiosa. Novel: Warrior Brood by C. S. Goto
  • Maetrus himself was said to have fallen into this state when the Mantis warriors turned upon the Astral Claws at the end of the Badab War. He was last seen pursuing the Astral Claws (novel says into the Eye of Terror but we know that it was the Maelstrom that the Astral Claws fled to). Novel: Warrior Brood by C. S. Goto
  • Captain Maetrus created the Praying Mantidae. Part of the training for this group of Marines was to hone their ability to enter the battle haze. Novel: Warrior Brood by C. S. Goto
  • Mordrianna III. Mantis Warriors original homeworld. Said to be within the tears of the Eye of Terror. However given their pursuit of the Astral Claws and proximity to Badab this is perhaps author error and should read as being near the Maelstrom. Novel: Warrior Brood by C. S. Goto
  • 667557M41, fight the Reborn Chaos Chapter on the world of Cygnax in the Maelstrom Zone. Heavy Casualties taken. IA9 pg. 12
  • Designated a member Chapter of the Maelstrom Wardens in 587M41 in resopnse to predations from the Maelstrom. IA9 pg. 14
  • 640M41-651M41, The Scourge Campaign. Maelstrom Warden Chapters conduct major combat operations into the heart of the Maelstrom. Operations forced to end when the Charnel Guard are removed from the Warden Chapters by order of the High Lords and redeployed. IA9 pg. 14
  • Take revenge upon the Reborn during the battle of Taskers Wound during the Scouring Campaign. IA9 pg. 14
  • 869M41, the Crusade of Wrath. The Black Templar at the urging of Lugft Huron, declare the Crusade of Wrath and invade the Maelstrom. The Astral Claws, Mantis Warriors and Lamenters launch their own raids into the Maelstrom as well. IA9 pg. 17
  • 869M41, the Crusade of Wrath. The Astral Claws and Mantis Warriors engage and destroy the Xenos race known as the Howling Gyre, ridding the Imperium of a xenos-foe dating back to the Age of Apostasy. IA9 pg. 17
  • 995903M41, Articles of Just Secession are drafted by Lugft Huron and signed by the Chapter Masters of the Lamenters and Mantis Warriors. The articles state Badab refusal to submit to the Karthan Sector lords but also reinforced the Warden Chapters duty to the Maelstrom Zone. However at this same time an increasing number of trade ships and fleets were attacked and lost to unknown forces. The Karthan Sector lords growing increasingly afraid and incensed at the Tyrant’s growing power base begin to petition other Marine Chapter to assist against the Astral Claws. This request is answered first by the Fire Hawks who have had a festering grudge against the Astral Claws since the Lycanthos Drift campaign. IA9 pg. 21-22
  • 350904M41, Mantis Warriors cripple and board the Fire Hawks Strike Cruiser Red Harbinger in the Galen System (Endymion Cluster) afte the Fire Hawks refuse to allow a boarding party peacefully. Fewere than 20 Fire Hawks are taken alive. IA9 pg. 23
  • Fire Hawks engage the Mantis warriors at the agri-world of Iblis, suffering heavy casualties after supply lines are cut off from Sagan’s World after the Astral Claws and Lamenters take the orbital docks on Sagan.  Forcing the Fire Hawks to fight their way out of the Iblis system. IA9 pg.23-26
  • 904M41, the Mantis Warriors trap the Marines Errant 1st and 3rd Companies on Bellerophon’s Fall. Eventually killing off the Marines Errant Command structure and forcing them into retreat. IA9 pg. 27
  • Lord Commander Ortys (Red Scorpions) agrees to a parlay meeting with Lufgt Huron on the orbiting stations around the world of Grief. At the meeting were Huron and the Chapter Master of the Mantis Warriors,  Yarvan Sartaq. After a brief break in proceedings, unknown forces in Chaos vessels attack the station. The ensuing battle between 3 sides results in the death of Ortys and the Mantis Warriors Chapter Master. Reports are confused as to the exact cause of the attack but there is evidence to support that it may have been an assassination attempt on the Mantis Warriors Chapter Master by Huron. IA9 pg. 34
  • While fighting in the Badab War the Mantis Warriors are forced to defend Endymion in 907M41 from Orks. IA9 pg. 41
  • 909M41 The Fire Angels and Sons of Medusa had reduced the Mantis Warriors to fighting a guerilla war within the Endmyion Cluster. Major engagements in the Tranquility, Iblis and Sigard systems.  During this time the Strike Cruiser Polaris Rising is disabled by the Mantis Warriors who withdrew from the fighting. Shortly thereafter 2 Ork KillKroozas set upon the ship and were in turn attacked by the Mantis Warriors. The Mantis Warriors captured the Strike Cruiser and destroy the orks. Of the Fire Angles only 37 survived and were marooned on Sigard IV. The entire engagement came about as the result of foresight from their Master Librarian Alhazra Redth, the Dust Prophet. IA9 pg. 50
  • Inquisitorial inquests sent to the Mantis homeworld at the start of the Rebellion are denied access but the Mantis Warriors do supply them with gene-seed samples. Samples conformed to within tolerances but some genetic dissonance was detected. IA9 pg. 50
  • 360910M41 Tranquility Campaign. IA10 pg. 14
  • 910M41, Chapter engages the Space Sharks on Iblis, Endymion Prime, C’sthal, Largitor and then the twin worlds of the Tranquility system. IA10 pg. 19
  • By the close of the Trainquility campaign in 910M41 the Mantis Warriors are no longer an effective fighting force due to the casualities suffered. IA10 pg. 19
  • 985913M41. Mantis Warriors and other rebel Chapters put on trial. The Chapter is put on a 100 years crusade without the rights to recruit new brethren during the crusade. The Chapter loses all rights to the Endymion Cluster, ceding them to the Fire Hawks in perpetuity. IA10 pg. 54
  • 577M41, the Death of Cygnax. Despite the Chapters intervention, all life is wiped out on Cygnax by death cultists. IA10 pg. 56
  • 587M41, Maelstrom Warders Chapters established. Astral Claws, Lamenters, Charnel Guard and Mantis Warriors. IA10 pg. 56
  • Suspected to be of the 8th Founding (M34). The discounted Libris Gloriana said to be the source of this information. IA10 pg. 64
  • Libris Gloriana also suggests they are a White Scars successor via the Marauders Chapter. IA10 pg. 64
  • Veteran Sgt. Audamus, KIA on board the Sorrow of Iblis. IA10 pg. 65
  • Brother Surabay, KIA, Betrayal at Grief. IA10 pg. 65
  • Chapter organized along Codex lines but has often fought under-strength. IA10 pg. 66
  • High degreee of individualism within the ranks in terms of armor markings. Company markings often being represented by large symbols or stylised representations of the arthropod or insect life instituted by that Company’s current commander. IA10 pg. 66
  • Prior to the Badab War, the Chapter had numerous small bases scattered around the Endymion Cluster rather than a single fortress monastery. IA10 pg. 66
  • Tranquility III, training world. IA10 pg. 66
  • 330-335M39, Hunt for Kharfra the Antipath. Chapter captures the renegade Cardinal Kharfa on the death world of Parasis. IA10 pg. 67
  • 901M430, The Scourge of the Slave Lords. Chapter uses the world of Tranquility to lay a trap for Dark Eldar raiders who had been raiding the Tranquility worlds for over 60 years. IA10 pg. 67-68
  • Sigil of Prophecy. IA10 pg. 68
  • Brother Herrodus. IA10 pg. 68
  • Brother Qui, KIA, Battle of Sagan. IA10 pg. 68
  • Fewer than 300 battle brothers surive the Badab War to take up the Chapter penance crusade. IA10 pg. 69
  • Master Librarian Alhazra Redth, the Dust Prophet. Believed to have been killed in the closing battles of the Badab War on Tranquility II, though his body was never found. IA9 pg. 50, IA10 pg. 69
  • Veteran Sgt. Saraken, 3rd Co. Assault squad. KIA, Defence of Ful’Souk Settlement, Tranquility II. IA10 pg. 70
  • Brother Azhira. 3rd Co. Assault squad. KIA, Defence of Ful’Souk Settlement, Tranquility II. IA10 pg. 70
  • Brother Damaskan. 3rd Co. Assault squad. KIA, Defence of Ful’Souk Settlement, Tranquility II. IA10 pg. 70
  • Brother Zenobus, honored by the Fire Angels as an Enemy for Valoour. 3rd Co. Assault squad. KIA, Defence of Ful’Souk Settlement, Tranquility II. IA10 pg. 70
  • Brother Kedar. 3rd Co. Assault squad. Defence of Ful’Souk Settlement, Tranquility II. IA10 pg. 70
  • Mantis Warrior Chapter Icon, common armor use. IA10 pg. 70
  • Venerable Dreadnought Secarssa, the Bow of Ma’dan. Destroyed, Siege of Endymion Prime. IA10 pg. 72
  • Thunderhawk transporter: Maledictor Audax. IA10 pg. 73
  •  
  • Chapter Master Khoisan Neotera. Sentenced to be stripped of his armor and imprisoned until his death for leading his Chapter to heresy at the close of the Trial of the Mantis Warriors. Rest of the Chapter put on a 100 year penitent crusade.  Legends of the Space Marines. The Trial of the Mantis Warriors pg. 377, 427
  • Captain Maetrus, 2nd Co. The Prophet Captain. Legends of the Space Marines. The Trial of the Mantis Warriors pg. 383
  • Fought against the Star Phantoms and Novamarines during Badab War. Legends of the Space Marines. The Trial of the Mantis Warriors pg. 383
  • Strike Cruiser: Tortured Soul. Joins forces with the Star Phantoms against the Astral Claws, Badab War. Opening a corridor for the Star Phantoms to drop pod onto Badab.  Legends of the Space Marines. The Trial of the Mantis Warriors pg. 385
  • Librarian Shaidan. His witnessing of an Astral Claws squad having removed or defaced their Imperial insignia ultimately leads to the Mantis Warriors siding with Imperial Forces against the Tyrant of Badab.  Legends of the Space Marines. The Trial of the Mantis Warriors pg. 387
  • 2nd Co. captures the Firehawks vessel Rapturous Flame. 904M41, Badab War. Legends of the Space Marines. The Trial of the Mantis Warriors pg. 393
  • Brother Audin. Legends of the Space Marines. The Trial of the Mantis Warriors pg. 398
  • Brother Ruinus. Legends of the Space Marines. The Trial of the Mantis Warriors pg. 402
  • Sgt. Soron. Legends of the Space Marines. The Trial of the Mantis Warriors pg. 402
  • Wars of Badab known as the Liberation Wars to those on the side of the Astral Claws. Legends of the Space Marines. The Trial of the Mantis Warriors pg. 404
  • Sgt. Treomar. Legends of the Space Marines. The Trial of the Mantis Warriors pg. 407
  • Route Marines Errant on Kalibus IV. Badab War. Legends of the Space Marines. The Trial of the Mantis Warriors pg. 409
  • Escape the Salamanders during Siege of Corusil. Badab War. Legends of the Space Marines. The Trial of the Mantis Warriors pg. 409
  • Chapter Homeworld (until the Badab War close): Oootheca. Legends of the Space Marines. The Trial of the Mantis Warriors pg. 413
  • Venomous Blade (unknown ship class). Legends of the Space Marines. The Trial of the Mantis Warriors pg. 415
  • Librarian Ahazra Redth, the Dust Prophet and Guardian of the Endymion Cluster taken at a younger than normal age for recruits as the Chapters Librarian saw a great future in him. IA10 pg. 174

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