6 replies to this topic

[Isual]

Dear fellow brothers,

 

now that our Supplement is out for some time and I reluctantly come to grips with the new edition and its ITC mission style i have the following question for the more experienced masters among you.

 

How good do you think is our chapter tactic/superdoctrine in the current mission environment?

 

The current missions demand a good ammount of maneuverability to not get too much behind on primary objectives. But our chapter tactic rewards the exact opposite. How do you comp with this problem?

 

Regarding the superdoctrin I have mixed feelings too. The only part we can really use active is the ravenwing part, its nearly alsways good to have.

 

The tactical doctrine part is... i don't know. I cant imagine a sitiuation were falling back and shooting the unit with the rest of the army or using intraceble to fall back and shoot is'nt the supperior option compared with mediocre shooting inside cc. And if you are not in cc, a place were you propably don't want to be with a unit benefecting of thes rule, it doesn't do anything.

 

Can't say much about the Deathwing part, but that it's pretty situational too.

 

What do you think? Am I too negative? Am I missing something? Or should I just focus on spamming Ravenwing/Deathwing for this edition?

 

PS: Don't get me wrong, I really would love to like our rules, I'm just not exactly convinced they are good.

Edited by Isual, 07 April 2021 - 05:06 PM.

[aura_enchanted]

the chapter tactic is great for some units, whirlwinds, tank destroyers, other fire support units, eliminators, and super useful for some units like a temrinator squad camping and objective shooting its cml

 

these are such small things you may say and that is true but these small things add up when taken in volume and add consistency to a part of the army other chapters would otherwise take and discard as expendable or unimportant sideshows to the rest of the army. in past editions people would often say "dont forget to shoot your storm bolters" referring to the free ones on rhinos and drop pods because these little things are capable of doing important if inglorious chip damage to your enemy. it sounds crazy but the more single dice you throw at beefy super units the more often they feel like these super beefy saves are wasted cause they go through and cause damage anyway while your entire mag dumps from hellblasters dont manage squat. and sometimes that little extra damage can make the rest of your army more efficient, finishing off targets that you otherwise would need to turn other guns on.

 

i think an excellent target for such things is the sicarian omega as it also benefits from WFTDA and can basically sit somewhere and turn 2 onward use its sight lines to wipe out big monsters or plow through elite infantry with its omega plasma destroyers

 

as for the deathwing super doctrine its actually great for brawling with big monsters and laying into enemy HQ choices who are normally built like battering rams, blunting their attack with deathwing and then smashing them back for more damage or for hunting down and eliminating important support character who are caught out of position.

[Brother Ramael]

Well, the chapter tactic is subtle: besides being useful for WW, Heavy Intercessors and back campers, it's a counterattack tactic, since it works when charged; in practice it rewards holding objectives rather than taking them.

For doctrines, the RW one is obviously good, while the tactical one seems underwelming, but then again it depends a lot on what are you using it with: a squad of autobolt intercessors or Aggressors can mulch a lot of deadly but fragile units while robbing them of the charge ( flamers of all kind are nasty here especially).

For the Termie doctrine, it's obviously quite good especially applied to our own characters: we have basically all chars that can full reroll wounds against other characters almost all the time.

I'd like to chime in on the melee performances of our HQs, I was doing some math on Drazhar, which is obviously a freaking beatstick, yet statistically it loses in combat against the much maligned Belial, even if he charges.

The combination of an innate 50% chance for ignoring wounds and a full reroll on our wounds roll on top of all the SM arsenal can get scary.

[farfromsam]

I would agree it's far far from good, but, it's not the worst, and it's thematic. DA have a lot of fun plays in other spaces. Honestly, I feel that our super doctrines are jink+inner circle that work all game. I'm happy to have useful wings. But I agree, our super doctrines are forgettable.
Honorable mention to be charged and hitting on 3s in CC with powerfists and thunder hammers.

[G8Keeper]

I think GW got the balance just right between unit rules/stratagems and doctrines.  Anything more competitive on the doctrine side and we'd have been too OP and probably nerfed pretty quickly.  When you take the book as a whole, we're in a good place.

[Xenith]

 

How good do you think is our chapter tactic/superdoctrine in the current mission environment?

 

The current missions demand a good ammount of maneuverability to not get too much behind on primary objectives. But our chapter tactic rewards the exact opposite. How do you comp with this problem?

 

Are we talking about the same doctrine that gives a boost to your (RAVENWING) movement in T1, then shooting from then on?

 

How about rushing to get to objectives in T1, then standing on and holding them from T2 when all your bonuses come into play?

 

I'd disagree about your interpretation on how to do well in 9th. Just getting to the objective isn't enough, you have to take it, and hold it. You have the maneuverability to get there, benefits to standing stil on one, and immune to attrition so even on the rare instances you fail morale, you're guaranteed never to lose more models.

[WrathOfTheLion]

I think the Ravenwing and Deathwing doctrines are good, the standard Greenwing one there isn't much to say about. Not really amazing, but could be decent. The Ravenwing one I think is the best of the three, the extra movement turn one is very good when combined with scoring bikes. In the objective-based 9E, this is very good. The game I've played with a Ravenwing detachment and a Greenwing detachment, I used it extensively to seize midfield objectives T1, which I could position tactical marines onto to solidify on the second turn. I didn't take out that much of the enemy army, but the ability to command the battlefield made winning easy. The Ravenwing doctrine is very good for Devastator, as it's tailored towards not being persistent and only being active T1.

 

The Chapter Tactic is very good, and actually ends up shining quite a bit in melee. It rewards defending objectives, being very good at countering other charges. With Space Marines being weaker to morale in the 9E codex, the morale part of the chapter tactic is better, even though it hasn't changed.

 

I'm fine with the power of all of these. Since our 9E codex actually has rules that work together, it's good that they didn't send it sky high. A lot of the power from our book is innate to the Ravenwing and Deathwing operating as they should.

Edited by WrathOfTheLion, 08 April 2021 - 08:27 PM.