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Tooling out Primaris Captains/Chapter Master


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#1
VIth

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So I’m trying to come up with a super killy Primaris Captain/Chapter Master with what tools we have at our disposal.

I’m also going to be trying out a super-resilient one in Gravis armor:
-Primaris Captain in Gravis armor (T5, W7)
-Chapter Master upgrade, Angel Artifice relic (+1T/+1W);
-Iron Resolve WLT (+1W, 6+ FNP);
-Saga of Bear (6+ FNP, can’t reroll wound or damage)
End result: T6, W9 character with a 2+/4++/6+++ who you can’t reroll wounds or damage against, and if he makes a save he grants a 6” FNP aura.

With a master-crafted power sword and powerfist he’s reasonably good in close combat (although Damage 3 is much more preferable given a growing amount of -1Damage out there), but he’s a super chonky force multiplier who should stick around the whole game.

My real question is: how is everyone making a super killy Primaris Captain/Chapter Master? We have one relic and two warlord traits we can play with, along with the basic gear loadout.

I’m thinking:
-Primaris Wolf Lord with Relic Shield and Master-Crafted Power Sword (killing power plus durability)
-WLT #1: Imperium’s Sword (re-roll charges, +1S/+1A on charge or HI)
-WLT #2: Beast Slayer (+1A and +1 to-hit and to-wound vs Monsters and Vehicles. I feel that gets you the most bang for the buck)
-Relic: Frost Blade (+1S and +1D, so he’s hitting at S6, 3D: very important for dealing with -1D units like Death Guard)

Finally, although I LOVE the idea of super exploding 6s (SW successor with Whirlwind of Rage), I think the army-wide Heroic Intervention is too important for my Judiciar and Armor of Russ characters who enable a melee build to be good/competitive against other melee armies (forcing 2+ units to fight last and having all of your units pile in and fight first is brutal to a melee army).

I’m curious what others think. Alternately, could go for Plasma Pistol/Powerfist then master-craft the PF for 3 Damage, but without the relic shield or Gravis armor he’s much less survivable. Obviously, this is a challenge compared to just making a smash captain. I’m limiting myself a great deal with “Primaris only Space Wolves,” but it’s a fun project.

Hjolda Fenrys!

#2
TheUnlikelyGamer84

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So I’m trying to come up with a super killy Primaris Captain/Chapter Master with what tools we have at our disposal.

I’m also going to be trying out a super-resilient one in Gravis armor:
-Primaris Captain in Gravis armor (T5, W7)
-Chapter Master upgrade, Angel Artifice relic (+1T/+1W);
-Iron Resolve WLT (+1W, 6+ FNP);
-Saga of Bear (6+ FNP, can’t reroll wound or damage)
End result: T6, W9 character with a 2+/4++/6+++ who you can’t reroll wounds or damage against, and if he makes a save he grants a 6” FNP aura.

With a master-crafted power sword and powerfist he’s reasonably good in close combat (although Damage 3 is much more preferable given a growing amount of -1Damage out there), but he’s a super chonky force multiplier who should stick around the whole game.

My real question is: how is everyone making a super killy Primaris Captain/Chapter Master? We have one relic and two warlord traits we can play with, along with the basic gear loadout.

I’m thinking:
-Primaris Wolf Lord with Relic Shield and Master-Crafted Power Sword (killing power plus durability)
-WLT #1: Imperium’s Sword (re-roll charges, +1S/+1A on charge or HI)
-WLT #2: Beast Slayer (+1A and +1 to-hit and to-wound vs Monsters and Vehicles. I feel that gets you the most bang for the buck)
-Relic: Frost Blade (+1S and +1D, so he’s hitting at S6, 3D: very important for dealing with -1D units like Death Guard)

Finally, although I LOVE the idea of super exploding 6s (SW successor with Whirlwind of Rage), I think the army-wide Heroic Intervention is too important for my Judiciar and Armor of Russ characters who enable a melee build to be good/competitive against other melee armies (forcing 2+ units to fight last and having all of your units pile in and fight first is brutal to a melee army

I’m curious what others think. Alternately, could go for Plasma Pistol/Powerfist then master-craft the PF for 3 Damage, but without the relic shield or Gravis armor he’s much less survivable. Obviously, this is a challenge compared to just making a smash captain. I’m limiting myself a great deal with “Primaris only Space Wolves,” but it’s a fun project.

Hjolda Fenrys!

I’m not knocking your plan just hear me out. I’ve used the ideas you’ve mentioned. They are cool and fun but I still found myself coming back to a jump chapter with frost claws. I just modeled him with off primaris parts. The thing is the chunky boy is slow and is difficult to deliver where you need him quickly. The only transport he can be in is a repulsor which is a steep points sink just to move him around or cp investment with cunning of the wolf. He is Killy but only if he can close in quickly. The shield indomitus captain I think is more durable anyway. T6 and T5 are so close. And the chonk won’t have great fnp vs mortals where as the shield cap has 4+ vs mortals plus all the other stuff you mentioned including a 1+ Armor save technically. The 4+ Came in handy for my hounds of morkai the other day vs Tzeentch daemons.

Also I’m not sure I understand what you were saying about the successor chapters. Successors do not get the army wide heroic. This has not been a huge problem for me. I use whirlwind of rage and born heroes. Then I try to maximize the ways I can make my opponent fight last, we have up to 4 different, and to put as many of our units in assault doctrine as possible as early as possible to max out on 6s. Especially using the chaplain litany of hate and chapter master to fish for 6s to hit. 3 hits for each 6 is bananas I assure you.

Back to why I use the “pramrisafied” jump chapter master.
Frost claws, hunter, imperium sword. 8attacks on charge can buff himself with rerolls to Reroll everything that’s not a 6 and rerolling all wounds since they are claws @dmg2. He isn’t as durable but he is killier.

If you want a Killy primaris only model it’s not the captain. It’s the primaris chaplain tooled up with benediction of fury,imperium sword, mantra of strength, and buff by might of heroes and a Reroll hits aura to fish for 6s. 8attacks S9 -3 4dmg double exploding 6s in assault doctrine either by bestie rage or by the psychic power. Bonkers that one is.

Edited by TheUnlikelyGamer84, 07 April 2021 - 06:48 PM.

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#3
Karhedron

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Rather than spending points on a CM upgrade to unlock Angel Artifice, I think you are better off taking the Pelt of the Balewolf. -1 to-Wound is actually better than +1T since going from T5 to T6 will have no effect on the plethora of T8 weapons out there. The -1 to-hit also works out better than +1 Wound. Let's assume worst case and you character is being attacked by a beatstick who hits on a 2+. Changing that to a 3+ is a 16% increase in survivability. For a character with 8 wounds already, that is equivalent to 1.28 extra wounds. If the attacking unit is natively hitting on a 3+ or even 4+, that just gets even better.

TLDR: The Pelt is better than the Angel Artifice under all circumstance.
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#4
Karack Blackstone

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So I’m trying to come up with a super killy Primaris Captain/Chapter Master with what tools we have at our disposal.

I’m also going to be trying out a super-resilient one in Gravis armor:
-Primaris Captain in Gravis armor (T5, W7)
-Chapter Master upgrade, Angel Artifice relic (+1T/+1W);
-Iron Resolve WLT (+1W, 6+ FNP);
-Saga of Bear (6+ FNP, can’t reroll wound or damage)
End result: T6, W9 character with a 2+/4++/6+++ who you can’t reroll wounds or damage against, and if he makes a save he grants a 6” FNP aura.

With a master-crafted power sword and powerfist he’s reasonably good in close combat (although Damage 3 is much more preferable given a growing amount of -1Damage out there), but he’s a super chonky force multiplier who should stick around the whole game.

My real question is: how is everyone making a super killy Primaris Captain/Chapter Master? We have one relic and two warlord traits we can play with, along with the basic gear loadout.

I’m thinking:
-Primaris Wolf Lord with Relic Shield and Master-Crafted Power Sword (killing power plus durability)
-WLT #1: Imperium’s Sword (re-roll charges, +1S/+1A on charge or HI)
-WLT #2: Beast Slayer (+1A and +1 to-hit and to-wound vs Monsters and Vehicles. I feel that gets you the most bang for the buck)
-Relic: Frost Blade (+1S and +1D, so he’s hitting at S6, 3D: very important for dealing with -1D units like Death Guard)

Finally, although I LOVE the idea of super exploding 6s (SW successor with Whirlwind of Rage), I think the army-wide Heroic Intervention is too important for my Judiciar and Armor of Russ characters who enable a melee build to be good/competitive against other melee armies (forcing 2+ units to fight last and having all of your units pile in and fight first is brutal to a melee army).

I’m curious what others think. Alternately, could go for Plasma Pistol/Powerfist then master-craft the PF for 3 Damage, but without the relic shield or Gravis armor he’s much less survivable. Obviously, this is a challenge compared to just making a smash captain. I’m limiting myself a great deal with “Primaris only Space Wolves,” but it’s a fun project.

Hjolda Fenrys!

Currently planing a custom built model with:

 

Aggressor Armor

Angel Artifice

Iron Resolve WLT

Saga of the Bear

Fenrisian Great Axe

Blizzard Shield

Age of Sigmar Knight Venator Wings

 

By using the Heavy Flamer Weapons and backpack arrangement with tossing on a Primaris PA backpack, possibly P Rag's, the model might look able to power the weapons used.

Yes, a Primaris Gravis Chapter Master SW Successor. With Wolf Priest and Company Champion. Wings grant / are treated as a JP.

The FGA should deal 2 W swing, versus 4 W cleave. Oh well, I'll include that point in my OP thread once the model is built.



#5
CCE1981

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For Wolves I prefer saga of the Wolfkin over Imperium’s Sword, the potential extra attacks just speaks more to me.

#6
VIth

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For Wolves I prefer saga of the Wolfkin over Imperium’s Sword, the potential extra attacks just speaks more to me.

Yeah, but you get +1S, +1A, and reroll charges all built in.



#7
Ragnar69

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For Wolves I prefer saga of the Wolfkin over Imperium’s Sword, the potential extra attacks just speaks more to me.

Yeah, but you get +1S, +1A, and reroll charges all built in.
Depends on your weapon. A TH usually doesn't care about +1S but Frost Claws love it extremely

#8
Plague _Lord

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For Wolves I prefer saga of the Wolfkin over Imperium’s Sword, the potential extra attacks just speaks more to me.

Yeah, but you get +1S, +1A, and reroll charges all built in.
Depends on your weapon. A TH usually doesn't care about +1S but Frost Claws love it extremely

 

 

Going to str 9 is pretty crucial if you want a tank killer...


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40k: Deathguard, Steel Legion, Word Bearers, Space wolves, Necrons

WFB: Night goblins, Empire, Dark Elves


#9
VIth

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Also I’m not sure I understand what you were saying about the successor chapters. 

 

Sorry if I wasn't clear: I understand the successor chapters don't get army-wide Heroic Intervention if you give them Whirlwind of Rage and Born Heroes.  My concern is in getting Armor of Russ or a Judiciar into range to shut down a counter-charge/melee threat.  Seems like we're a solid counter to many of the best melee armies if we leverage our many fight-last capabilities, however, as many have noted it may simply better to triple down on melee offense.


 

 

 

For Wolves I prefer saga of the Wolfkin over Imperium’s Sword, the potential extra attacks just speaks more to me.

Yeah, but you get +1S, +1A, and reroll charges all built in.
Depends on your weapon. A TH usually doesn't care about +1S but Frost Claws love it extremely

 

 

Going to str 9 is pretty crucial if you want a tank killer...

 

Especially if you pop "Savage Strikes" or give him Beast Slayer: then you're wounding Knights on a 2+!



#10
TiguriusX

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For Wolves I prefer saga of the Wolfkin over Imperium’s Sword, the potential extra attacks just speaks more to me.

Yeah, but you get +1S, +1A, and reroll charges all built in.
Depends on your weapon. A TH usually doesn't care about +1S but Frost Claws love it extremely

Going to str 9 is pretty crucial if you want a tank killer...

In the competitive meta you need the S9 TH for many opponents

Custodes
Triple telemon shadowkeepers
T8 dread and stratagem to nerf attacks with S-1 (shooting and melee)

Imperium's sword mean you are wounding on 4s or 3s with savage strike


Death guard
Wounding mortarion on 3s or 2s with savage strike is a big deal with reroll auras shut down

Magaera knights are also part of the current meta at T8

I play dynamic WL/relics and the flexibility I have to matchup is very powerful

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#11
TheUnlikelyGamer84

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Also I’m not sure I understand what you were saying about the successor chapters.

Sorry if I wasn't clear: I understand the successor chapters don't get army-wide Heroic Intervention if you give them Whirlwind of Rage and Born Heroes. My concern is in getting Armor of Russ or a Judiciar into range to shut down a counter-charge/melee threat. Seems like we're a solid counter to many of the best melee armies if we leverage our many fight-last capabilities, however, as many have noted it may simply better to triple down on melee offense.


For Wolves I prefer saga of the Wolfkin over Imperium’s Sword, the potential extra attacks just speaks more to me.

Yeah, but you get +1S, +1A, and reroll charges all built in.
Depends on your weapon. A TH usually doesn't care about +1S but Frost Claws love it extremely
Going to str 9 is pretty crucial if you want a tank killer...
Especially if you pop "Savage Strikes" or give him Beast Slayer: then you're wounding Knights on a 2+!
Skilled players will stay out of the 3” heroic so it is overrated. I still use the 6” heroic strat with great success in conjunction with 3 ways to make opponent fight last. Double extra hits on 6s with savagery and whirlwind of rage are just flat out better.

Edited by TheUnlikelyGamer84, 10 April 2021 - 12:02 AM.


#12
SvenIronhand

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Has anyone here considered the humble Wolf Lord with Plasma Pistol and Power Fist? I’m thinking:

Pelt of the Balewolf
Resolve of the Bear

And a Battle Leader to accompany him that’s got the Armour of Russ. I toss him in a Impulsor with Bladeguard Vets, and if he activates his Aura, that’s a fairly tough threat to crack.
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#13
Vassakov

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Take Ragnar.

Sorry, but that's about as killy as you can get, and you can save Relic/WLT for other characters!
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The brightest light casts the darkest shadow.



#14
Triszin

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Has anyone here considered the humble Wolf Lord with Plasma Pistol and Power Fist? I’m thinking:

Pelt of the Balewolf
Resolve of the Bear

And a Battle Leader to accompany him that’s got the Armour of Russ. I toss him in a Impulsor with Bladeguard Vets, and if he activates his Aura, that’s a fairly tough threat to crack.


I'm. Considering him, but giving him the super plasma D3 relic
banana

#15
VIth

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Skilled players will stay out of the 3” heroic so it is overrated. I still use the 6” heroic strat with great success in conjunction with 3 ways to make opponent fight last. Double extra hits on 6s with savagery and whirlwind of rage are just flat out better.

I'm fine with the argument that Whirlwind+Born Heroes+Savage Fury > Hunters Unleashed+Savage Fury.  It's probably the correct analysis given the wisdom of crowds.

What I don't buy is the casual dismissal of 3" Heroic Intervention.  You can easily stack multiple SW units on an objective in a way to make it impossible for your opponent to "stay out" of that range if they contest an Objective.  Guarding the objectives is generally all that matters.  

Which "Fight Last" methods are you talking about?  Because outside of the psychic power, the Judiciar and Armor of Russ require you to Heroically Intervene to make it into combat.  A single 6" HI strategem is much easier to avoid than army-wide 3" HI + a single 6" HI strategem.  

With growing melee threats entering the top tier of the meta (Dark Angels Deathwing and Dark Eldar Incubi/Wyches/Succubi), I think our "Fight Last" proliferation could make Space Wolves a great spoiler army.

As others have said, WWoR will likely prove better, but I'm always surprised by how casually people dismiss army-wide 3" HI in the age of "objective control wins games."


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#16
TheUnlikelyGamer84

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Skilled players will stay out of the 3” heroic so it is overrated. I still use the 6” heroic strat with great success in conjunction with 3 ways to make opponent fight last. Double extra hits on 6s with savagery and whirlwind of rage are just flat out better.

I'm fine with the argument that Whirlwind+Born Heroes+Savage Fury > Hunters Unleashed+Savage Fury. It's probably the correct analysis given the wisdom of crowds.

What I don't buy is the casual dismissal of 3" Heroic Intervention. You can easily stack multiple SW units on an objective in a way to make it impossible for your opponent to "stay out" of that range if they contest an Objective. Guarding the objectives is generally all that matters.

Which "Fight Last" methods are you talking about? Because outside of the psychic power, the Judiciar and Armor of Russ require you to Heroically Intervene to make it into combat. A single 6" HI strategem is much easier to avoid than army-wide 3" HI + a single 6" HI strategem.

With growing melee threats entering the top tier of the meta (Dark Angels Deathwing and Dark Eldar Incubi/Wyches/Succubi), I think our "Fight Last" proliferation could make Space Wolves a great spoiler army.

As others have said, WWoR will likely prove better, but I'm always surprised by how casually people dismiss army-wide 3" HI in the age of "objective control wins games."
I’m not casually dismissing 3” heroic. I just haven’t had it matter much in my experience. Also with the strat the 6” intervention can come from any unit just like the 3”. So Wulfen and redemptors in my army just waltz over and kill stuff. I play in an FLGS where we do player placed terrain and not a set format like some tourneys. most objectives are pretty open to shooting and I’m the only pure assault army due to my play style. The opponents I play often have lots of shooting and just blast units off of objectives. I guess all I can say is try each play style multiple times yourself and see what works for you. My meta may be very different from yours. I also don’t camp objectives with anything other than sneaky cyberwolves typically.

Edited by TheUnlikelyGamer84, 12 April 2021 - 03:48 PM.





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